Horses shouldn't be allowed on the country roads

[Bennet]

yonex said:

Bennet said:

The method by which actual locomation is accomplished is irrelevant in my opinion. It's the lack of full control, unpredictability, inability of the animal to necessarily cope with the noise or sudden appearance modern, fast moving traffic - all things that a cyclist, say, would have no problems with.

A police horse is probably more sensible than a novice cyclist?

No problem. Allow horses trained to police horse level on the roads. Introduce a cycling profficiency test. I'd happily vote for it.

Someone posted this on a recent horsey thread:

someone said:

I ride horses. I would suggest most riders are not competent enough to be on the road, furthermore few horses are properly trained for road use. What happens is the rider is nervous and on edge, this feeds back to the horse and this makes them very skittish, which makes the rider even more nervous and prone to anger.

No doubt some people could cope with removal of all speed limits, but we have to legislate for the majority.

[av185]

popeyewhite said:

As an aside, one of the filthiest females I ever met worked as a stable girl.

Yep mucking out is a mucky job.

[anonymous-user]

Bennet said:

No problem. Allow horses trained to police horse level on the roads. Introduce a cycling profficiency test. I'd happily vote for it.

The flaw in your plan is that passing a test doesn't make you a competent driver, just one that has reached the most basic levels of understanding. It just requires a bit of common sense from all road users to make it work?

[The Wookie]

ITP said:

I've nothing against horses on the road, well, not on fast/busy roads.
However, I don't understand why anyone would actually want to ride on a tarmac road for pleasure on a horse. Surely you would always be worried someone may fly round a blind corner and wipe you (and your horse) out, or cause the horse to throw you off?
Why would you not rather ride through fields/off road paths/beaches etc where you don't have to be constantly worrying about cars/vans/trucks/motorbikes? Surely that's much more enjoyable. Makes no sense to me.

Because they can't just ride through any field in the countryside willy nilly, and the fields that you can ride through are often separated by a length of road.

I'm not saying there aren't any stupid people who do it unnecessarily, but every hobby has its morons

[Bennet]

yonex said:

Bennet said:

No problem. Allow horses trained to police horse level on the roads. Introduce a cycling profficiency test. I'd happily vote for it.

The flaw in your plan is that passing a test doesn't make you a competent driver, just one that has reached the most basic levels of understanding. It just requires a bit of common sense from all road users to make it work?

And I think possibly the flaw in your logic is that just because we can't entirely eliminate the imperfections and incompetences of all human drivers, doesn't mean that the significantly greater imperfections and incompetences of horses should necessarily be categorised along with humans as an equivalent risk.

To clarify: We are stuck, for the moment, with human fallibility and failure of judgement because there is no better alternative. The same is not true of horses.

"Well we can't eliminate all risk, so there's no point eliminating this one."
"Can't we all just look out for one another?"

Sadly, as I said, irrelevant counter questions and appeals to accomodation from other road users.

The best argument for horse use would be to demonstrate how few accidents are actually caused by them. I haven't looked in to the statistics.

Putting my cards on the table - I'm happy for anyone to pursue whatever hobbies they like, I just don't like the idea that I can no longer judge cornering speeds and stopping distances when driving in horse country by the distance I can see to be clear. To be really safe, I have to assume there is a nervous horse around every corner and pretty well crawl everywhere. In practice, this isn't actually possible, so you're constantly playing the odds.

[anonymous-user]

Bennet said:

To be really safe, I have to assume there is a nervous horse around every corner and pretty well crawl everywhere. In practice, this isn't actually possible, so you're constantly playing the odds.

To be really 'safe' you can only go as fast as you can actually see and leave enough room to get out of trouble if something is around the corner. I had a recent scare with a deer, and another with a pheasant. Both more stupid than horses and/or horse riders. It definitely has made me more wary and tbh I needed a bit of a reminder that the road wasn't just my own personal plaything.

[popeyewhite]

av185 said:

popeyewhite said:

As an aside, one of the filthiest females I ever met worked as a stable girl.

Yep mucking out is a mucky job.

Is that what you thought I meant?

[eldar]

Seems to me around 30% of horseists are sensible, reasonable and considerate, and no problem.

The remaining 70% are suicidal, inconsiderate and consider riding a ton of animal with the stability of a stick of sweating dynamite some sort of fun. They are kind of entertaining when viewed from a safe distance (half a mile).

[Jag_NE]

Salamura said:

Of course horses on the road should be banned. Allowing horses on the road because they were "here before cars" is like allowing throwing faeces out the window because this used to be the case before plumbing. It's dangerous, unnecessary, annoying, and selfish.

Nobody uses a horse to get about for genuine reasons (like commuting, working, or travelling). People who do do it only because they have a horse and therefore they can, so they put their own leisure above the danger or inconvenience they cause to other users. You can't compare a horse to a bicycle or a motorbike, because these are not only much less of a hazard for other road users, but are also genuine means of transport in addition to being a recreation vehicle. If you have a horse, you can ride it anywhere, it doesn't have to be a public road. Why people choose to go on the road is beyond me.

Something needs to change.

I can see your logic but with regard to bicycles and motorbikes, outside of urban commuter areas I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the mileage is for pleasure only, similar to horses. I agree that horses are a greater hazard however. years ago, a close encounter with a horse around a bend taught me the lesson of "never go faster than you can see". So I have something to thank them for...

[Bennet]

Nanook said:

Is your point that they're dangerous, but you don't really know because you haven't looked into the figures?

Or that they stop you having race-track style fun on public country roads, because there might be a horse (or a person, a dog walker, a cyclist, whatever else) around the corner?

Neither of those are very good points, so you can please clearly and concisely state your issue with them? Thanks.

You seem angry. Please understand that I do not have a strong vendetta and I am not campaigning for the banning of horses etc. I'm just joining in with an internet discussion.

Regarding the figures, I'm suggesting that the best way to demonstrate the lack of any real problem for someone on the "pro" side of the debate would be to pull them out and show how few accidents involve horses etc, rather than relying on drawing comparisons with cyclists or any other kind of hazard. Such comparisons are doomed to irrelevance, IMO, because we're dealing with a different form of risk.

Regarding the "race-track style fun", as far as I am aware, one of the key principles of safe driving that (I'd hope) we all drive by is to be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear. If, based on that principle, a safe cornering speed for a given bend is 30mph, normally I would take it at 30mph. If, somehow, I knew for a fact that there was a nervous horse just around it, I would be doing more like 10mph.

Should we therefore do 10mph around all 30mph bends from now on? It wouldn't be practical. As I see it, the horse rider's potential inability to cope with traffic approaching at 30mph on a 30mph bend suggests they may not be well suited to modern road conditions.

That's all I have. I'm very happy to hear counter arguments. For me personally, they won't carry a great deal of weight if they boil down to an appeal to drive carefully (I already do) or a comparison with some other risk I'm already taking that doesn't involve a nervous horse.

: )

[swanny71]

yonex said:

I drove past a horse yesterday and nothing happened.

True story.

So did I, but here were two of ‘em.

Slowed down and took a wide berth, the riders waved thank you and we all carried on as if nothing terrible had happened.

Amazing really.

[Bennet]

Never mind. There's nothing further I could add. That's all from me. Cheers

[Alex Langheck]

If you choose to drive in rural areas, then expect to find cyclists, walkers, livestock and agricultural vehicles on the road; so drive accordingly. Sadly, especially when the nice weather arrives, people seem to think they’re on a racetrack or special stage and fly around blind corners…..
As a cyclist regularly using rural roads, I’m staggered by the driving standards on these roads.

[BoRED S2upid]

7/10 for the rant it needs more expletives it only got a 7 due to the last part about vegans being allowed to curl one out on public roads.

[BornRageFree]

I feel (no, no entitled, before anyone jumps on that bandwagon) like I have some experience in this. I grew up in South Devon, where 98% (no, really) on the roads are single track lanes, some with grass growing down the bloody middle. There's a lot of farmland, and probably hundreds of stables and equine centres in any 20 mile radius. Hence, I've dealt with a lot of horsey situations. I also work near to multiple stables, so quite often come across riders on my commute.

I can count on one hand, the amount of times I've had an issue passing a horse and rider, in the 11 years I've held a full licence. Those situations have always been resolved by the rider being very apologetic usually due to the horse not yet being fully exposed to the 21st century (all those blasted motor cars I tell you), or me learning to slow down a little. Blind corners are taken slowly, and plan well ahead if you see a head in a helmet bobbing along above the hedgeline.

My major issue? Horseboxes and lorries. The horse, having been primarily bred as a form of transport, now needs a form of transport, to transport it. Almost universally driven by middle-aged mothers with teen daughters, doing well below the speed limit, and generally causing a bit of a chaotic line of enraged drivers behind them. They're never courteous enough to pull over (even when said queue stretches back 30 or 40 vehicles) and always seem to feel entitled enough to have a massive go at anyone daring enough to pull off a safe overtake.

Side note: I have friends with horses, and they are generally the exception that proves this rule. Nor is everyone who owns horses/a horsebox a complete buffoon. This is just an observation I have noticed

[Justin Case]

BornRageFree said:

I

My major issue? Horseboxes and lorries. The horse, having been primarily bred as a form of transport, now needs a form of transport, to transport it. Almost universally driven by middle-aged mothers with teen daughters, doing well below the speed limit, and generally causing a bit of a chaotic line of enraged drivers behind them. They're never courteous enough to pull over (even when said queue stretches back 30 or 40 vehicles) and always seem to feel entitled enough to have a massive go at anyone daring enough to pull off a safe overtake.

You've just beaten me to this.

[48k]

popeyewhite said:

Limpet said:

I had a rather attractive woman on a horse blow me a kiss the other week as I passed.

It put a Cheshire can grin on my face for several minutes.

Horse riders are good with me

As an aside, one of the filthiest females I ever met worked as a stable girl.

They are a strong third in the league table, behind nurses (first) and flight attendants (second).

[funkyrobot]

Alex Langheck said:

If you choose to drive in rural areas, then expect to find cyclists, walkers, livestock and agricultural vehicles on the road; so drive accordingly. Sadly, especially when the nice weather arrives, people seem to think they’re on a racetrack or special stage and fly around blind corners…..
As a cyclist regularly using rural roads, I’m staggered by the driving standards on these roads.

I live in the countryside and spend hours on my bicycle on the country lanes.

I see horses and riders every so often. I slow down, make them aware of my presence, then as I ride past we have a little chat.

The only morons I see are those in motor vehicles. Not all motor vehicles, but generally more modern SUV's and German cars. Don't know what it is a about german cars.

Anyhow, was nearly knocked off the bike by a twit in an Audi SUV the other day. He didn't want to put his wheels on the verge for some reason so just kept his foot in and tried to ignore me as he flew past.

Encountered a horse and rider the other day too. Everyone slowed down and passed courteously. Apart from some woman in a new Nissan SUV who decided everyone was holding her up (on a single lane country road in the middle of nowhere). She looked livid. Gunned the car as she sped away. Clever behaviour near a horse.

[Roger Irrelevant]

J4CKO said:

It is disproportionate the amount of moaning about horses and bicycles, most of the agro is down to cars.

1 minute delay due to Dobbin or other "Mammil", abject rage, hits back of a queue of cars and will wait happily for ages like as stunned mullet listening to the radio, happy as a pig in st.

Nicely put. It is going to be a very, very rare driver who gets 'held up' for longer in total by horses, or cyclists, or whatever other type of road user a PHer is moaning about today, than by the huge number of other cars on the roads. I live in a rural area that is popular with equestrians (and cyclists, walkers etc), and I simply cannot see that this is a problem, in fact I think it's great seeing all types of people out and about.

[Shuvi McTupya]

funkyrobot said:

He didn't want to put his wheels on the verge for some reason so just kept his foot in and tried to ignore me as he flew past.

.

I notice that a lot round here, most of the people with 4x4's don't want to get their tyres dirty while the rest of us have no issues getting a couple of wheels on the verge!