RE: Ford Focus RS50 EVO on sale from £85k

[s m]

gigglebug said:

You do realise that using capitals doesn't make your point any more valid or relevant don't you?

You still seem to be blinded from the seemingly unmissable fact that there is a world of difference in the basic fundamentals of you trying to compare the value for money between one car that has just received a raft of bolt on modifications (many of which by the sounds of it are already pre-existing and could be replicated by anyone) and another receiving a near full on redesign of its exterior which almost certainly couldn't. Your assumption that "some bodywork changes" (have a proper read as to what the actaul differences between the J50 and the regular Spider are) amounts to no more of an undertaking than what the Focus in the article achieves over and above the model that it is based on, and so therefore should somehow only be eligible to a comparative level of price increase, is naive to say the least.

Do you honestly think that there is no concernable difference between the levels of engineering exhibited on the RS50 and the J50? Do you honestly believe that they are a 'like for like' comparison?

Edited by gigglebug on Tuesday 29th January 02:01

I have read the changes. It seems there is a large amount of Emperor’s new clothes involved in there. Do you think that the bodywork changes are worth an extra 4 times the original car cost then?
It matters little at the end of the day whether you think you could recreate the Focus changes for an extra x thousand pounds or recreate the body work changes at a coachbuilders for a fraction of what Ferrari charge.

Just like the CSL analogy ealier on....what none of the cars will be is an official manufacturer-sanctioned car. That's what the extra cash is buying - exclusivity.

Edited by s m on Tuesday 29th January 07:38

Edited by s m on Tuesday 29th January 07:47

[anonymous-user]

A Ferrari in even basic form is a desirable and rare thing. A special edition even more so.

A Focus in basic form is neither rare nor especially desirable; it's a washing machine on wheels.

The comparison is nonsense.

BMW were ridiculed by some on here for pricing the M3CS at more than £80k. A Focus with less about it, starting from a lot base,b for similar or more money is the very definition of emporer's new clothes.

[s m]

janesmith1950 said:

A Ferrari in even basic form is a desirable and rare thing. A special edition even more so.

A Focus in basic form is neither rare nor especially desirable; it's a washing machine on wheels.

To people who are fans of the individual marque your point is moot.

[anonymous-user]

s m said:

To people who are fans of the individual marque your point is moot.

Being a fan or an investor are separate disciplines, though. More likely to get cross over (and therefore increased target market) if you have a product that allures both.

The £1m Ferrari I can see being worth more than £1m in 10 years time. By comparison I can't see the same for a stickered up production Focus compared to its own price.

[s m]

janesmith1950 said:

s m said:

To people who are fans of the individual marque your point is moot.

Being a fan or an investor are separate disciplines, though. More likely to get cross over (and therefore increased target market) if you have a product that allures both.

The £1m Ferrari I can see being worth more than £1m in 10 years time. By comparison I can't see the same for a stickered up production Focus compared to its own price.

We will have to wait and see.....but suffice to say people seem constantly amazed at the prices people will pay for cars that they themselves regard as ridiculous

[gigglebug]

s m said:

I have read the changes. It seems there is a large amount of Emperor’s new clothes involved in there. Do you think that the bodywork changes are worth an extra 4 times the original car cost then?
It matters little at the end of the day whether you think you could recreate the Focus changes for an extra x thousand pounds or recreate the body work changes at a coachbuilders for a fraction of what Ferrari charge.

So you have read the changes, made a feeble attempt to belittle them and then made no sense?

Why are you avoiding the question? Is it because you know full well that the answer will show up your continued ingnorance to the obvious difference between the two examples that you, and no one else, chose to use to make a point?

I'll ask again;

Do you honestly think that there is no concernable differences between the levels of engineering exhibited on the RS50 and the J50 and so therefore should only be, in your eyes, levy to a comparative price growth over their respective standard models?

Why do you insist on needing to know whether I feel as if the J50 represents value for money? It is completely irrelevant to the fact of me pointing out you clearly either just don't know, or more than likey are just being too stubborn to acknowledge, the difference between two vastly differing levels of re-engineering?

In answer to the question I'd just say that the whole point of a limited run special edition is to be just that 'special' when compared to the car it is based on, especially if the increased outlay is significant. Does the RS50 distinguish itself from it's donor car to the level that the J50 does?

s m said:

Just like the CSL analogy ealier on....what none of the cars will be is an official manufacturer-sanctioned car. That's what the extra cash is buying - exclusivity.

The J50 is an official manufacturer-sanctioned car though isn't it. That's what the extra cash is buying - exclusivity? Or is that analogy only applicable for Fords and Bmws which have undergone less of a transformation in comparison?

Edited by gigglebug on Tuesday 29th January 09:11

[s m]

gigglebug said:

The J50 is an official manufacturer-sanctioned car though isn't it. That's what the extra cash is buying - exclusivity? Or is that analogy only applicable for Fords and Bmws which have undergone less of a transformation in comparison?

Edited by gigglebug on Tuesday 29th January 09:11

Don’t think I claimed otherwise for the Ferrari?
I am agreeing with you on this point - the bodywork changes and extra 20bhp are what you are paying your nigh on million pounds extra for over the base product 488 at £200,000 - the exclusivity of an official manufacturer sanctioned product. Personally I think that is an enormous amount of money for bodywork changes no matter how many hours of engineering went in as under the skin it is a 488 Spider with an extra 20bhp and different interior trim ( unless there are more hidden changes you are aware of? ) - obviously that is a matter of opinion.

With the Ford you are getting a bigger percentage performance hike and an even more limited production run. You get different wheels as per the Ferrari.
Maybe if Ford had charged a scaled-up five times cost of £200,000 for the 3-off Focus they could have offered bespoke bodywork too but it would be very unlikely to sell.
They’ll both be likely destined for a collection and as to future values ....who knows?
Low mileage limited edition Sierras, E30s and Merc 190s have all fetched 5 times their value in the last few years

Edited by s m on Tuesday 29th January 11:35

[blearyeyedboy]

janesmith1950 said:

The £1m Ferrari I can see being worth more than £1m in 10 years time. By comparison I can't see the same for a stickered up production Focus compared to its own price.

Quite apart from the merits or not of the Focus... I agree with your assessment of the Ferrari's future worth, but I think that you seriously underestimate the depth of the Ford scene, and that some of Ford's fans have very deep pockets. Just look how much a Sierra Cossie is now worth. While I personally wouldn't pay the £85k, I'm sure that many people would, and I'd have more faith in selling one than I would many modern cars of the sane price range.

[MikeDB1]

thebigmacmoomin said:

The side stripes really dont suit the car at all.

Agreed ! Seems to be trying to copy the classic Mk2 Escort Mexico but that had the emblem behind the back wheels where it looked good

[mrnoisy78]

blearyeyedboy said:

Quite apart from the merits or not of the Focus... I agree with your assessment of the Ferrari's future worth, but I think that you seriously underestimate the depth of the Ford scene, and that some of Ford's fans have very deep pockets. Just look how much a Sierra Cossie is now worth. While I personally wouldn't pay the £85k, I'm sure that many people would, and I'd have more faith in selling one than I would many modern cars of the sane price range.

The problem is these now have a damaged reputation after the engine fiasco.

Luckily for Ford there are plenty more fans who will pay up and take a chance on one of these despite their propensity to go pop due to engine and other mechanical issues.
The fact this is forged is helpful but at the same time, if Ford can put the wrong headgasket in an engine for over a year's production then you have to start wondering how good their attention to detail is.
After all, they've continued to bury their head in the sand over the "automated attempts to kill you" steering despite hundreds of owners complaints, saying it's a "characteristic of the vehicle", so nothing would surprise me.

Having personally owned one of the Mk3 RS's from new and with the mountune kit after 1000 miles, the number of issues I had with the car in such a short time period, poor build quality and the inexcusably incompetent customer service - has put me off ever buying another new Ford ever again.
Yes BMW and Mercedes charge more for their cars, but in my own experience the customer service and experience as a whole is 100% better.
Haven't tried Audi yet... :s
I'd rather not be a guinea pig for a manufacturer that clearly shuns their performance car owners and doesn't take their complaints seriously.
For £85k you could own and run 2 very good used super saloons, neither of which would have a Ford badge, and still get more fun out of driving both without having to worry about them breaking every 2 minutes.

Edited by mrnoisy78 on Friday 1st February 18:09

[Ahbefive]

mrnoisy78 said:

Luckily for Ford there are plenty more fans who will pay up and take a chance on one of these despite their propensity to go pop due to engine and other mechanical issues.

Having personally owned one of the Mk3 RS's from new and with the mountune kit after 1000 miles, the number of issues I had with the car in such a short time period, poor build quality

Curious but what are these other issues you speak of?
As far as I know the head gasket issue was resolved under warranty which seemed to be the root of the issues with the "going pop".

I'm interested to hear what issues you had as mine has been absolutely faultless other than the recall and the build quality seems excellent although I can see why you would have an alternate opinion if yours had problems.

Edit: actually I forgot I had a problem with an exhaust valve sticking which was resolved in a couple of hours.

Edited by Ahbefive on Friday 1st February 18:41

[aaron_2000]

Told you they'd have no issue selling them

[Dale487]

aaron_2000 said:

Told you they'd have no issue selling them

For less than they wanted.

[JxJ Jr.]

"...two grand less than the reserve - apparently, the number having been reduced when two private buyers - rather than profit-focused companies - approached dealership Trust Ford, so it let them go to good homes at a slight discount."

Well that's a novel spin on reasons for not reaching a reserve.

[richboycoleman]

@rs_jamie has the third of these three cars and will make a good profit when selling! she uses hers for work not a museum piece.

[JP.Racing]

richboycoleman said:

@rs_jamie has the third of these three cars and will make a good profit when selling! she uses hers for work not a museum piece.

What do you know about her? Followed her insta a while back, has got/had some really nice motors. Must have some affiliation with Ford to land a heritage & RS50 right?! Fair play to her though.

[aaron_2000]

Dale487 said:

aaron_2000 said:

Told you they'd have no issue selling them

For less than they wanted.

Oh no, £83k instead of £85k I bet they made a loss then.

[Escort Si-130]

The price is VERY unfair. After all you could buy two regular RS for less than that price, then doo all the same Mountune conversions and setup and still have change.

[aaron_2000]

Escort Si-130 said:

The price is VERY unfair. After all you could buy two regular RS for less than that price, then doo all the same Mountune conversions and setup and still have change.

Which is exactly what a collector would want to do.

[C7 JFW]

And our survey says.

The McLaren's more desirable.