RE: Next Porsche Macan to be electric only
Discussion
Harry H said:
EV's in a few years will be just as expensive to run as ICE.
Perhaps as expensive as ICE cars are now, but ICE running costs will be pushed up in parallel until the momentum behind EVs looks unstoppable. Which is why, IMO, genuine petrolheads who want to keep their internal combustion cars should be praying for EV uptake to be as fast as possible. The slower it is, the more petrol prices will be pushed up to make it happen. The sooner petrol cars become politically irrelevance the better as far as I'm concerned.
framerateuk said:
Citation?
Do you realise how much electricity it takes to produce diesel and petrol? Most refineries have their own dedicated power stations. When you're burning petrol in a car, it's already taken a ton of electricity to produce.
Electricity usage will go up, but not nearly as much as that.
They where discussing the UKs elec consumption I was very surprised that nearly 30% of the UKs elec now comes from renewables (2017 data) and how much less we are using generally due to technology improvementsDo you realise how much electricity it takes to produce diesel and petrol? Most refineries have their own dedicated power stations. When you're burning petrol in a car, it's already taken a ton of electricity to produce.
Electricity usage will go up, but not nearly as much as that.
I changed 40 bulbs in my house to LEDs and chopped the 60" plasma for a 65" OLED and my electric bill has halved
GTEYE said:
There simply is not enough public infrastructure and I suspect there’s no cash to pay for one being created.
In the UK the Govt could be setting by example, in a case a do as I do, not do as I say....However, when they recently said they can't afford to continue with the electrification of the national rail network to get rid of those nasty diesel trains...... you really can't see the public infrastructure for mass EV use becoming a reality anytime in the next 20 years, despite the hot air and bulls
t coming out of polititcians mouths....This is marketing and product planning insanity. I genuinely am expecting to be in the market for a Macan Turbo in around 12 to 18 months, maybe a little sooner, but nothing on earth will persuade me to buy an electric car with all of the associated charging and range hassles. If Porsche really do go this route then they'll seriously handicap, sales wise, their best selling model. How does that make any sense at all??
Davismatt said:
How does that make any sense at all??
Because PH opinion is not representative of UK / EU / US / Chinese majority/popular opinion.The loss of a relatively few die-hard Ph sales will be made up for with new sales of greater qty elsewhere. That makes perfect sense to Porsche / VAG.
Davismatt said:
If Porsche really do go this route then they'll seriously handicap, sales wise, their best selling model. How does that make any sense at all??
On the flip side an EV Macan is has now jumped to the top of the shortlist to replace my wifes Lexus hybrid.What VAG did with dieselgate was applaing but action speaks louder than words. Switching their best selling product to full EV takes commitment and bravery. Porsche have really risen to the challenge, and they will stand a very good chance of get our cash when the time comes to change cars.
Contrast that to Lexus, wife loves her current car, but there is simply no way we will spend another £ on a combustion engined machine, so regardless how much she likea our current Lexus we'll be taking our businesse elsewhere.
W12AAM said:
I read its anything between 9 - 20 nuclear power stations, needed - Just to power electric cars, alone!!
Case in point; Hinkley Point - First sanctioned by Blair back in 1997...wont be ready until 2026
And all coal fired power stations have to be gone by 2025
So; What will be the priority?...Light and warmth in the home ...Or to run an electric car?
And then there us having to rely on the Chinese (& French! - who hate us for leaving ) - This will be a car for the few...not the many.
Even if we get faster charging batteries - I still think there will be a cost and they are still a few years off, yet with this.
Its probably ok for the majority of Surrey living, detached home with garage & gravel drive owning Porsche enthusiasts, out there...But there are an awful lot of people who use on-road parking and I relish the lawyers chasing owners for injuries once people start tripping over their electric cables from their homes to cars across pavements OR finding yobs have cut the cables in the night for a laugh & finding their car "dead", in the morning
Unless the government start investing £billions in infrastructure and the prices for these vehicles comes down a lot aswell as charging times faster and charge points more plentiful - It wont be happening in my lifetime.
And then theres hydrogen powered cars?...And whether, like petrol & diesel, the govenments get it totally wrong in 10 years time & start penalising electric car owners in favour of hydrogen cars?
For now; I'll continue to do my bit for global warming & continue to drive my Range Rover TDV8!
Spot on anyone who thinks the current or near future infrastructure is up to the task of charging millions of EV cars is crazy. Never mind the generation problem wich is an issue , currently running people’s everyday home use at peak demand . The actual cabling to most property round the country is woefully underrated decades old !! Case in point HS2 look at how inefficient that project is.. imagine 3 nuclear power plants and multiple substation upgrades around the country that would be a laugh. Not even going to start on we’re the lost revenue from fuel would be recouped ?? Nice idea but won’t be mainstream for decades in my opinion Case in point; Hinkley Point - First sanctioned by Blair back in 1997...wont be ready until 2026
And all coal fired power stations have to be gone by 2025
So; What will be the priority?...Light and warmth in the home ...Or to run an electric car?
And then there us having to rely on the Chinese (& French! - who hate us for leaving ) - This will be a car for the few...not the many.
Even if we get faster charging batteries - I still think there will be a cost and they are still a few years off, yet with this.
Its probably ok for the majority of Surrey living, detached home with garage & gravel drive owning Porsche enthusiasts, out there...But there are an awful lot of people who use on-road parking and I relish the lawyers chasing owners for injuries once people start tripping over their electric cables from their homes to cars across pavements OR finding yobs have cut the cables in the night for a laugh & finding their car "dead", in the morning
Unless the government start investing £billions in infrastructure and the prices for these vehicles comes down a lot aswell as charging times faster and charge points more plentiful - It wont be happening in my lifetime.
And then theres hydrogen powered cars?...And whether, like petrol & diesel, the govenments get it totally wrong in 10 years time & start penalising electric car owners in favour of hydrogen cars?
For now; I'll continue to do my bit for global warming & continue to drive my Range Rover TDV8!
GTEYE said:
So basically in the UK you charge it at home or you’re stuffed.
There simply is not enough public infrastructure and I suspect there’s no cash to pay for one being created.
There’s no need for the taxpayer to fund charging points though. Every retailer with a car park is going to be sticking them in to attract and trap customers. Supermarkets, motorway services, shopping centres, pubs. Any business that can profit from offering charging will be installing them as soon as there are customers to be drawn in. There simply is not enough public infrastructure and I suspect there’s no cash to pay for one being created.
By the time there are affordable small EVs then even Aldi and Lidl will have them.
It'll be good to see what Porsche do with this. They are well known for making fun cars with great handling and performance and I expect this will have the same brief.
If they pull it off,and we come out of this with a fun electric car that's a decent steer, it'll point to a promising future for car enthusiasts who still want something enjoyable. No pressure, Porsche.
I think the petrol station comparisons are largely irrelevant. We all head to petrol stations for 5 minutes at a time because we 'have' to. An electric car can just be plugged in a home. If anything, it's more convenient, not less. Granted that mega range will be an issue if you travel a long distance, but those times are few for most people - and those who need that level of range all the time are fewer still. And public charging is improving all the time. I reckon it'll come good, although I still don't know how the powers that be will solve this for people who don't have a driveway.
If they pull it off,and we come out of this with a fun electric car that's a decent steer, it'll point to a promising future for car enthusiasts who still want something enjoyable. No pressure, Porsche.
I think the petrol station comparisons are largely irrelevant. We all head to petrol stations for 5 minutes at a time because we 'have' to. An electric car can just be plugged in a home. If anything, it's more convenient, not less. Granted that mega range will be an issue if you travel a long distance, but those times are few for most people - and those who need that level of range all the time are fewer still. And public charging is improving all the time. I reckon it'll come good, although I still don't know how the powers that be will solve this for people who don't have a driveway.
Edited by Cloudy147 on Wednesday 27th February 21:02
Edited by Cloudy147 on Wednesday 27th February 21:02
aeropilot said:
I had to attend a family funeral down in Devon last week, and did London-Torquay, overnight stay, then next day Torquay to Plymouth, and then onto Newquay before back to London that night.
In my X5 40d, I started with a full tank and did the whole 550 miles over 2 days without having to fill up until almost home, to save time for the early start I was having the next morning. The distance to empty on the readout when I filled up after the trip said 715 miles to empty!!
When a EV can do that I'll happily buy one.
And how often are you planning to bury members of your family in far off places? If you owned an EV, you could simply hire a derv to get to you to odd funeral, heck, for what my i3 has saved me over the last 3 years i could hire a bloody helicopter to fly me to Devon and still be quids in.... ;-)In my X5 40d, I started with a full tank and did the whole 550 miles over 2 days without having to fill up until almost home, to save time for the early start I was having the next morning. The distance to empty on the readout when I filled up after the trip said 715 miles to empty!!
When a EV can do that I'll happily buy one.
Cloudy147 said:
It'll be good to see what Porsche do with this. They are well known for making fun cars with great handling and performance and I expect this will have the same brief.
If they pull it off,and welcome out with a fun electric car that's a decent steer, it'll point to a promising future for car enthusiasts who still want something enjoyable
I think the petrol station comparisons are largely irrelevant. We all head to petrol stations for 5 minutes at a time because we 'have' to. An electric car can just be plugged in a home. If anything, it's more convenient, not less. Granted that mega range will be an issue, but those times are few and those who need that level of range all the time are fewer still. And public charging is improving all the time.
Yup. BP bought ChargeMaster last year. At the same time, She’ll bought NewMotion. The two biggest charging companies are now owned by energy companies. They aren’t planning to fit charge points to their existing petrol station network. They are doing deals with firms like NCP, shopping centres and supermarkets. If they pull it off,and welcome out with a fun electric car that's a decent steer, it'll point to a promising future for car enthusiasts who still want something enjoyable
I think the petrol station comparisons are largely irrelevant. We all head to petrol stations for 5 minutes at a time because we 'have' to. An electric car can just be plugged in a home. If anything, it's more convenient, not less. Granted that mega range will be an issue, but those times are few and those who need that level of range all the time are fewer still. And public charging is improving all the time.
At the end of last year VW tied up a massive deal with Tescos and will he installing chargers all across the UK.
In the US firms like Tesla have focussed on installing interstate charging facilities as the environment is completely different there. Each city is separated by distances greater than typical EV range while almost all consumers have off street domestic parking for home charging.
Conversely, in the UK and EU cities are much closer and there is less need for charging between cities. At the same time most cars spend more than enough time each week, even day, parked at a work or retail environment and that is where private equity via the energy companies and car manufacturers is going to be invested in creating our domestic network.
Over 50% of UK households have the ability to home charge and the remainder will charge at work, while shopping or while eating. Those who cannot will buy hybrids.
There really is no issue other than some people panicking that they are going to have to buy an EV tomorrow or people rushing to buy EVs and then getting irritated that the Govt isn’t wiping their arse today.
wab172uk said:
Yet the British infrastructure to charge these thing is virtually none existent.
Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
I'm sure this push for `all electric` will be turned round when no one buys them as they can't charge the damn things up.
Plus, just how many more power stations will we need if we all went all electric? We can't even build one without the French or Chinese building it for us. Look how that's gone recently?
A real world statement - well done. Please tell the government.Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
I'm sure this push for `all electric` will be turned round when no one buys them as they can't charge the damn things up.
Plus, just how many more power stations will we need if we all went all electric? We can't even build one without the French or Chinese building it for us. Look how that's gone recently?
JerryF said:
wab172uk said:
Yet the British infrastructure to charge these thing is virtually none existent.
Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
I'm sure this push for `all electric` will be turned round when no one buys them as they can't charge the damn things up.
Plus, just how many more power stations will we need if we all went all electric? We can't even build one without the French or Chinese building it for us. Look how that's gone recently?
A real world statement - well done. Please tell the government.Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
I'm sure this push for `all electric` will be turned round when no one buys them as they can't charge the damn things up.
Plus, just how many more power stations will we need if we all went all electric? We can't even build one without the French or Chinese building it for us. Look how that's gone recently?
And while wondering just how EVs are going to charge the owners will be making use of cheap overnight power while they sleep as their electricity demand helps smooth out the Grid and actually allow it to be more efficient through softening peaks and adding demand off peak.
Charging of EVs is really a non issue. The real issue is in getting EVs to be cheaper than comparable ICE cars, at which point the most ardent anti EV punter will be staffing their pants over a monthly lease deal that’s cheaper and free charging when buying Lidl s
tpaper. 
JerryF said:
More VAG advertisements by PH! Give it a break please....
Ok, so nothing about Seat, Porsche, Audi, VW, Lamborghini or Bentley as its all VW Audi group cynically paying for advertising.Did Ginetta, Mclaren, BMW, Volvo, Mercedes, Honda and Fiat who all have had articles in the last couple of days paying PH or is it just VAG that has PH on the Payroll ?
Its a car site, paid for by advertising, the stuff at the side, not the reporting on stuff, thats news, why we come here, thats their job !
Davismatt said:
This is marketing and product planning insanity. I genuinely am expecting to be in the market for a Macan Turbo in around 12 to 18 months, maybe a little sooner, but nothing on earth will persuade me to buy an electric car with all of the associated charging and range hassles. If Porsche really do go this route then they'll seriously handicap, sales wise, their best selling model. How does that make any sense at all??
Yes, Porsche should throw their billion dollar backed market research in the bin, some guy called DavisMatt from SpasticHeads forum wants a turbo, he'll spend at least 50 grand on it!! Get real.I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that Porsche have more market planning than you.
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