RE: Why Lotus won't be building an SUV - yet
Discussion
I have heard rumours from various sources regarding Project Omega, many of which are very much in the know. If they are even partly right the naysayers need not be so concerned. If it has a manual gearbox that isn’t an after thought like many manufacturers, my deposit will shortly at the dealer.
lotuslover69 said:
Rumor is it is based on the Evora tub. If that is true then i hope the car has a central driving position and 3 seats since the evora has enough space inside its cabin to go with this seating arrangement similar to the mclaren f1, mclaren speedtail and ferrari 365p
Trouble with that is that car just becomes a pain in the arse to use and just remains a fun thing kept in a garage by a minority of people. We know that the original sill design put customers off so essentially enlarging that to be a couple of feet is just going to be a death sentence. Re the Evora tub, it would seem an ideal starting point as I don’t think there is anything wrong with it. It’s what they stick on top of it and in it where they need to apply far superior skills than they have been. I don’t think anyone has ever tried to claim that the Evora doesn’t drive amazingly well, what turns consumers away is not what’s under the skin or how it drives. They just need a body shape and style that more than justifies a £100k price tag and makes that tag look a bargain.
Probably true to an extent but Porsche manage to charge £100k+ (something plus quite a lot) for 911s and that's a far more ungainly shape to my eyes.
I think the Evora's single biggest problem is that 99% of buyers in the 911 sort of market place don't know it exists, and of those who do the huge majority never even sit in one let alone drive it.
I think the Evora's single biggest problem is that 99% of buyers in the 911 sort of market place don't know it exists, and of those who do the huge majority never even sit in one let alone drive it.
DonkeyApple said:
Trouble with that is that car just becomes a pain in the arse to use and just remains a fun thing kept in a garage by a minority of people. We know that the original sill design put customers off so essentially enlarging that to be a couple of feet is just going to be a death sentence.
Re the Evora tub, it would seem an ideal starting point as I don’t think there is anything wrong with it. It’s what they stick on top of it and in it where they need to apply far superior skills than they have been. I don’t think anyone has ever tried to claim that the Evora doesn’t drive amazingly well, what turns consumers away is not what’s under the skin or how it drives. They just need a body shape and style that more than justifies a £100k price tag and makes that tag look a bargain.
Well the car is likely to have just a 4 cylinder engine in the evora tub this time as geely dropping toyota as an engine supplier. Car will have to be super light to get most out of a turbo charged 4 cylinder engine, it has to be driver focused and most people want and a central driving position is just an amazing advantage to have over other track focused cars.Re the Evora tub, it would seem an ideal starting point as I don’t think there is anything wrong with it. It’s what they stick on top of it and in it where they need to apply far superior skills than they have been. I don’t think anyone has ever tried to claim that the Evora doesn’t drive amazingly well, what turns consumers away is not what’s under the skin or how it drives. They just need a body shape and style that more than justifies a £100k price tag and makes that tag look a bargain.
If the car had a v8 then i could understand going down the comfy easier to use path because you have the power and torque that lets you carry ectra weight. But a sports car with just a 4 cylinder i think needs to be as light as possible.
One issue i see is Volvo, whilst this time Lotus will be taking advantage of the Volvo parts bin the issue is Volvo parts aren't designed to be light weight.
lotuslover69 said:
One issue i see is Volvo, whilst this time Lotus will be taking advantage of the Volvo parts bin the issue is Volvo parts aren't designed to be light weight.
Nor were Toyota ones, particularly. The K-series was a very light engine but most other units Lotus have used over the years haven't been. kambites said:
Probably true to an extent but Porsche manage to charge £100k+ (something plus quite a lot) for 911s and that's a far more ungainly shape to my eyes.
I think the Evora's single biggest problem is that 99% of buyers in the 911 sort of market place don't know it exists, and of those who do the huge majority never even sit in one let alone drive it.
I’m also not really able to see the beauty of the 911 but that ignores the real reason why many people buy such a product which is to publicly announce they have have reached a certain career point such as senior VP of Risk Assesment or junior partner at an accountancy or lead salesman three months running. I think the Evora's single biggest problem is that 99% of buyers in the 911 sort of market place don't know it exists, and of those who do the huge majority never even sit in one let alone drive it.
The single biggest problem that the Evora has is that we live in a world of bling and image projection and the Evora doesn’t tell strangers that you live in a manshun or are a senior VP. It just tells people that you like driving so are therefore some cocksocket loser who probably doesn’t even know what Instagram is.
The Evora problem is not that potential customers don’t know about it because they do, it just that they cough out their Prosecco over their Relox watch at the thought of being seen dead anywhere near it.
Liking driving and not wanting to shout to the world how much debt your carrying is nobhead territory for most consumers in a world where the purpose of this debt fuelled consumption is to show to the world your greatness and importance and liking driving is not only notnon that radar but seriously damaging.
Is that really true? From what I've seen an Evora gets a hell of a lot more (largely positive) attention on the road than even a GT3 911 does let alone a Carrera. To my eye the Evora is a far more exotic (and consequently expensive) looking car, at least until you get close enough to see the rather thrown-together looking interior.
kambites said:
Nor were Toyota ones, particularly. The K-series was a very light engine but most other units Lotus have used over the years haven't been.
True but an elise is a stripped out racer for the road that you can drive to the track. If oyu start putting in all the mod cons and plushy interior then that 4 cylinder lump is going to struggle to push that car to speeds quicker than an mx5 can manage. Then its basically what's the point? The Evora could be more luxurious because it had a v6 engine with plenty of power and torque. Put a 4 cylinder engine in an evora even with a turbo as opposed to the supercharged v6 and imo that is a step backwards.They plan to make the cars more luxurious and easier to live with yet use the evora platform with a 4 cylnider engine. It just doesn't add up.
kambites said:
Is that really true? From what I've seen an Evora gets a hell of a lot more (largely positive) attention on the road than even a GT3 911 does let alone a Carrera. To my eye the Evora is a far more exotic (and consequently expensive) looking car, at least until you get close enough to see the rather thrown-together looking interior.
very, very few people know what a GT Porsche is though. even most owners (my 911 owning friends included) believe them to just a model variant (of course it suits them to believe they're just a few tweaks away from GT-ness!).remember we live in a society where people think it's good to pay more for a shirt that has "Hackett" in large letters on the chest and where a Polo shirt now has a larger polo player on its chest! of course proper petrolheads still buy Porsche but a large % buy cars as fashion and don't read PH.
There's still a good sized market for Evora type cars, but the dealer network needs to grow, practicality improve and perceived quality needs to be better. It'll be interesting to watch Alpine sales.
kambites said:
Is that really true? From what I've seen an Evora gets a hell of a lot more (largely positive) attention on the road than even a GT3 911 does let alone a Carrera. To my eye the Evora is a far more exotic (and consequently expensive) looking car, at least until you get close enough to see the rather thrown-together looking interior.
Evora is a sort of baby supercar, it attracts as much attention as a supercar for sure and often gets mistaken for a ferrari. Being super rare even in England most people have no clue what it is. Went out to a nice restaurant in my Evora and a guy in a lambo aventador parked up and had a good look at the Evora before going into the bar. When i had a Porsche those type of events rarely ever happened, people had little interest in looking at one because they are fairly common site.They certainly attract a lot of positive attention. In contrast owning a Porsche has its benefits in that the car is understated. Never had any negative reactions driving a lotus before but often people assume the worst when you drive a porsche.
kambites said:
Is that really true? From what I've seen an Evora gets a hell of a lot more (largely positive) attention on the road than even a GT3 911 does let alone a Carrera. To my eye the Evora is a far more exotic (and consequently expensive) looking car, at least until you get close enough to see the rather thrown-together looking interior.
I’m obviously over egging the pie to put a view over (as per usual 
) But the Lotus brand an image is really the big issue in our delightful modern world. They’ve failed to engage with the trend of the last two decades. They do need to make something that urban city dwellers want to ponce about in if they want to sell magnitudes more cars. ESOG said:
Good to hear Lotus news l, always.
And im stoked they decided to ditch the SUV plans for now. I think a Lotus SUV would be a disaster. I dont know one person who thinks Lotus and says ooh i would love a Lotus SUV.
I was one cringing at the thought of it. I cant stand SUV type cars and really hope they don't have to follow the sheep making more oversized garbage for the road. And im stoked they decided to ditch the SUV plans for now. I think a Lotus SUV would be a disaster. I dont know one person who thinks Lotus and says ooh i would love a Lotus SUV.
I understand that Lotus need to bring out a car that is practical but that's not what Lotus is about and has never been that way.
DonkeyApple said:
I’m also not really able to see the beauty of the 911 but that ignores the real reason why many people buy such a product which is to publicly announce they have have reached a certain career point such as senior VP of Risk Assesment or junior partner at an accountancy or lead salesman three months running.
The single biggest problem that the Evora has is that we live in a world of bling and image projection and the Evora doesn’t tell strangers that you live in a manshun or are a senior VP. It just tells people that you like driving so are therefore some cocksocket loser who probably doesn’t even know what Instagram is.
The Evora problem is not that potential customers don’t know about it because they do, it just that they cough out their Prosecco over their Relox watch at the thought of being seen dead anywhere near it.
Liking driving and not wanting to shout to the world how much debt your carrying is nobhead territory for most consumers in a world where the purpose of this debt fuelled consumption is to show to the world your greatness and importance and liking driving is not only notnon that radar but seriously damaging.
Well put sir.The single biggest problem that the Evora has is that we live in a world of bling and image projection and the Evora doesn’t tell strangers that you live in a manshun or are a senior VP. It just tells people that you like driving so are therefore some cocksocket loser who probably doesn’t even know what Instagram is.
The Evora problem is not that potential customers don’t know about it because they do, it just that they cough out their Prosecco over their Relox watch at the thought of being seen dead anywhere near it.
Liking driving and not wanting to shout to the world how much debt your carrying is nobhead territory for most consumers in a world where the purpose of this debt fuelled consumption is to show to the world your greatness and importance and liking driving is not only notnon that radar but seriously damaging.
I saw an Evora parked up. I really had a good look round it and thought what a great car. Panel gaps looked good and imho it’s probably a very well made car.
My own theory for what's worth is that lightweight is going to increasingly become a differentiator for those buying their second car/fun car; moreso than the past.
In a world where a mid-sized hot hatch is below par with less than 275bhp - if the industry keeps chasing power and complexity and the laws of physics dont change - i wonder whether we just get to diminishing returns, where cars are so good, and so quick, they all blend into one driving experience.
But lightweight - that can make a much bigger different to the experience than even more power, more complex electronics, 4WD, 4WS, etc. Toyota GT86, Alfa 4C, Alpine A110 - none of them perfect, and none of them big sales successes (Alpine looks promising tho); but all putting out a concept of lightweight, boring engine, high driver engagement formula that didnt exist so much outside of Lotus a few years back.
So basically am saying if Lotus can get to releasing cars that don't look rehashes of very old designs again, i think they could be very well placed in what may be more and more popular segment in the coming years...
In a world where a mid-sized hot hatch is below par with less than 275bhp - if the industry keeps chasing power and complexity and the laws of physics dont change - i wonder whether we just get to diminishing returns, where cars are so good, and so quick, they all blend into one driving experience.
But lightweight - that can make a much bigger different to the experience than even more power, more complex electronics, 4WD, 4WS, etc. Toyota GT86, Alfa 4C, Alpine A110 - none of them perfect, and none of them big sales successes (Alpine looks promising tho); but all putting out a concept of lightweight, boring engine, high driver engagement formula that didnt exist so much outside of Lotus a few years back.
So basically am saying if Lotus can get to releasing cars that don't look rehashes of very old designs again, i think they could be very well placed in what may be more and more popular segment in the coming years...
DonkeyApple said:
kambites said:
Probably true to an extent but Porsche manage to charge £100k+ (something plus quite a lot) for 911s and that's a far more ungainly shape to my eyes.
I think the Evora's single biggest problem is that 99% of buyers in the 911 sort of market place don't know it exists, and of those who do the huge majority never even sit in one let alone drive it.
I’m also not really able to see the beauty of the 911 but that ignores the real reason why many people buy such a product which is to publicly announce they have have reached a certain career point such as senior VP of Risk Assesment or junior partner at an accountancy or lead salesman three months running. I think the Evora's single biggest problem is that 99% of buyers in the 911 sort of market place don't know it exists, and of those who do the huge majority never even sit in one let alone drive it.
The single biggest problem that the Evora has is that we live in a world of bling and image projection and the Evora doesn’t tell strangers that you live in a manshun or are a senior VP. It just tells people that you like driving so are therefore some cocksocket loser who probably doesn’t even know what Instagram is.
The Evora problem is not that potential customers don’t know about it because they do, it just that they cough out their Prosecco over their Relox watch at the thought of being seen dead anywhere near it.
Liking driving and not wanting to shout to the world how much debt your carrying is nobhead territory for most consumers in a world where the purpose of this debt fuelled consumption is to show to the world your greatness and importance and liking driving is not only notnon that radar but seriously damaging.
cidered77 said:
My own theory for what's worth is that lightweight is going to increasingly become a differentiator for those buying their second car/fun car; moreso than the past.
In a world where a mid-sized hot hatch is below par with less than 275bhp - if the industry keeps chasing power and complexity and the laws of physics dont change - i wonder whether we just get to diminishing returns, where cars are so good, and so quick, they all blend into one driving experience.
But lightweight - that can make a much bigger different to the experience than even more power, more complex electronics, 4WD, 4WS, etc. Toyota GT86, Alfa 4C, Alpine A110 - none of them perfect, and none of them big sales successes (Alpine looks promising tho); but all putting out a concept of lightweight, boring engine, high driver engagement formula that didnt exist so much outside of Lotus a few years back.
So basically am saying if Lotus can get to releasing cars that don't look rehashes of very old designs again, i think they could be very well placed in what may be more and more popular segment in the coming years...
Would it be a fair thing to say the Elise was very ahead of its time when it first came out. It’s still a cracking and very relevant car today.In a world where a mid-sized hot hatch is below par with less than 275bhp - if the industry keeps chasing power and complexity and the laws of physics dont change - i wonder whether we just get to diminishing returns, where cars are so good, and so quick, they all blend into one driving experience.
But lightweight - that can make a much bigger different to the experience than even more power, more complex electronics, 4WD, 4WS, etc. Toyota GT86, Alfa 4C, Alpine A110 - none of them perfect, and none of them big sales successes (Alpine looks promising tho); but all putting out a concept of lightweight, boring engine, high driver engagement formula that didnt exist so much outside of Lotus a few years back.
So basically am saying if Lotus can get to releasing cars that don't look rehashes of very old designs again, i think they could be very well placed in what may be more and more popular segment in the coming years...
It’s replacement will be brilliant and hopefully they’ll do a new Evora and what a stunning car that is. It’s a real shame they don’t sell more of them.
DonkeyApple said:
lotuslover69 said:
Rumor is it is based on the Evora tub. If that is true then i hope the car has a central driving position and 3 seats since the evora has enough space inside its cabin to go with this seating arrangement similar to the mclaren f1, mclaren speedtail and ferrari 365p
Trouble with that is that car just becomes a pain in the arse to use and just remains a fun thing kept in a garage by a minority of people. We know that the original sill design put customers off so essentially enlarging that to be a couple of feet is just going to be a death sentence. Re the Evora tub, it would seem an ideal starting point as I don’t think there is anything wrong with it. It’s what they stick on top of it and in it where they need to apply far superior skills than they have been. I don’t think anyone has ever tried to claim that the Evora doesn’t drive amazingly well, what turns consumers away is not what’s under the skin or how it drives. They just need a body shape and style that more than justifies a £100k price tag and makes that tag look a bargain.
https://www.lotuscars.com/engineering/vehicle-plat...
Lotus said:
Combining the ability to lengthen or shorten extrusions with the option to tailor the chassis stiffness, vastly increases the number of vehicles that could be developed from this vehicle architecture. Front and mid engine installations have been considered, as well as hybrid and electric vehicle (EV) applications.
98elise said:
https://www.carbodydesign.com/media/2006/02/Lotus-...
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