RE: Toyota GR86 | PH Favourite Car of 2022

[DanielSan]

LBW2020 said:

I think i need to clarify...

i like the GR86 dont get me wrong...but i cant ever see it being a classic, 40 years from now young people won't know what a rear drive N/A car is and will never have driven one, they won't be on anyones bedroom walls, and they won't care and prices will likely be very low...

if you want a classic buy a first model Tesla now...and store it ...it will be like buying that first apple computer...

i just think 30k for this is a lot when you can buy second hand and pick up a damn good M3...

I get the driving dynamics and even the fun of driving a low powered car on the edge .....but classic i cant see it....but i will never know as i will likely be long dead....

hopefully !

People will have said the same thing about the AE86 Corolla in the 80's as well. After all who'd get excited about a Toyota Corolla and pay silly money for a nearly 40 year old one...

[Enut]

spikyone said:

Honeywell said:

Hairymonster said:

I found 2 on autotrader which were both being flipped for a cool 10k profit.

One of them, a white one in Belfast, is now down to £36k. I could really see myself going for one of these.

How feasible, and at what sort of cost, is it to bring a GT86 up to the GR86 levels of performance/driving experience?

My GT86 has the Fensport normally aspirated treatment. The headers, exhaust and ECU remap remove the torque dip issue. It only makes 214hp but on Shell Vpower it revs to 7,700rpm very nicely. Not sure what the torque figures are.

My other two cars a Rangerover TDV8 and BMW 535d both remapped with non OEM exhausts. So I experience quite a lot of torque in my driving life. The GT86 is delicious BECAUSE you have to wring it round to banshee revs and snatch the next gear. Its frenetic. That's the point. Its a feature not a failure. Its also the most tail happy car I've ever owned and with the stability control in sport mode it's perfectly judged for giving you a tab of opposite lock moments with giving you in the hedge moments.

I also quite dig the whole Japanese tuning scene and the Toyota reliability aspect. You can endlessly tinker with new parts but the thing always starts and servicing is cheap. My 60,000 mile service at Toyota was the big one with new spark plugs and all the works and it was £499 inc VAT. its a fraction of the price of running a Cayman with full factory service history.

The GR86 is a nailed on classic because it's desirable to the sort of people who are into classic cars plus it's rare. That's all it needs. Nobody has posters on bedroom walls nowadays, that's irrelevant. Its more about the forums and the YouTube reviews.

It looks to me that I'm going to have to cancel my Emira order next year and spend half the money on either a GR Yaris or GR86 as sadly my industry still has recovered from Covid lockdowns. Can't justify the £70k plus road tax cost of a Lotus when two incredibly good alternatives for a third hooning car exist from Toyota.

Great post. To add to the "what mods would make it a GR86 equivalent", nothing short of forced induction will get anywhere near the claimed 240bhp - 214bhp from yours is right at the top of what you'd expect from NA tuning.

Given the choice of modifying a GT86 to match a GR86, or just straight-up buying the GR86, I think the GR86 is a no-brainer. I don't even want to write down how much I've spent on modifying my GT86! IMO the only thing that's worse on the new version is the styling, the front looks narrower and taller because of the grille & lights, and the rear lights look like a Vectra. Other than that I get the impression that the GR86 is better in every way.

The Emira is just about the only thing that would persuade me to sell my 86, fingers crossed for you that you don't have to cancel that order.

Isn't it a small world on PH? I have a TD N/A modified GT86 and sort of considered a GR86 until realising there weren't going to be that many, I have driven the Emira and have a deposit down, for me it was like a grown up GT86 and the obvious next step for a driver's car. I probably have a year plus to wait for delivery and am planning finances accordingly. I hope you don't have to cancel your Emira purchase, let's all hope things pick up!

Edited by Enut on Tuesday 27th December 11:55

Edited by Enut on Tuesday 27th December 11:56

[DeejRC]

Not enough to go around? Instant classic?
Yes, to the same ppl who think/thought spending £60/70k on that Megane thing was sane/cool/classic.

There will be enough because not enough ppl care about it to want one.
I have 2 Toyotas and never even occurred to me to look/think about this thing.

[ecsrobin]

1Nathan said:

satfinal said:

Toyota really fked up the launch and sale of this car imo

So much for the everyman sportscar

Of all the ridiculous comments on PH this one takes the cake.

Suggesting that a manufacturer messed up the launch of a car when it sold the entire production run in 90 minutes without so much as a test drive is a pretty wild claim.

It’s literally the exact opposite of screwing it up.

I mean technically he’s true although dealers were also to blame.

Dealers started taking deposits when the car was announced (as they had done for the GR Yaris. Late in the day Toyota UK told dealers all orders would be online, good dealers gave back the money and told the customers to logon themselves, crap dealers kept the money and then thought they’d be able to register 10 cars in the morning (assuming no demand).

Then someone found Toyotas website code wasn’t up to scratch and shared a link to the ordering page a week or 2 ahead of schedule on forums and FB so some placed orders (I feel around 30 from memory) then 90 minutes and some website issues and all were sold with those salesman that thought they’d place customers orders slow time having to give a call to customers to say sorry here’s your money back.

So yes whilst the car did sell out (hardly surprising given the few that are coming here and aimed at enthusiasts) Toyota UK and some not so good salesman have indeed made something simple into an absolute cluster f**k.

And then there was the communication of why the cars been delayed 6 months or so (non existent in case you were wondering) it was a brake ECU software issue, I mean how hard is it to tell your customers that?

[Water Fairy]

MountainsofSussex said:

Conscript said:

It has the BMW style ones, which don't click and stay in position. Even when the indicators are fully enabled, the stalk always returns to centre.
It makes cancelling them a bit of a pain, because rather than just unlicking them, you have to push them in the opposite direction, which run's the risk of then activating them in the other direction.

It's not really a big issue - you get used them in within a few minutes. But it's just a bizarre design choice. They offer no practical advantage over a traditional indicator stalk that I can work out. An answer to a problem that doesn't exist.

Does it work the same as the BMW and Vauxhall ones, in that if you indicate to turn right, you can cancel by indicating to turn right again? Saves the embarrassment of driving down the road indicating left and right, and also means if you've just flicked for 3 flashes and try to cancel that, at worst you do another 3 flashes rather than indicating the other way. Totally normal for my brain now, with 2 cars in the family that do this

I was gonna post the same but you beat me to it. I don't really see what the issue is. Quite easy and intuitive.

[Conscript]

Water Fairy said:

MountainsofSussex said:

Conscript said:

It has the BMW style ones, which don't click and stay in position. Even when the indicators are fully enabled, the stalk always returns to centre.
It makes cancelling them a bit of a pain, because rather than just unlicking them, you have to push them in the opposite direction, which run's the risk of then activating them in the other direction.

It's not really a big issue - you get used them in within a few minutes. But it's just a bizarre design choice. They offer no practical advantage over a traditional indicator stalk that I can work out. An answer to a problem that doesn't exist.

Does it work the same as the BMW and Vauxhall ones, in that if you indicate to turn right, you can cancel by indicating to turn right again? Saves the embarrassment of driving down the road indicating left and right, and also means if you've just flicked for 3 flashes and try to cancel that, at worst you do another 3 flashes rather than indicating the other way. Totally normal for my brain now, with 2 cars in the family that do this

I was gonna post the same but you beat me to it. I don't really see what the issue is. Quite easy and intuitive.

Except as I said, it doesn't work like that. Pressing the indicator in the same direction again doesn't cancel it. So if I've activated the left indicator fully by pressing the stalk down all the way, and for some reason it doesn't cancel automatically, the only way to cancel it manually is to nudge the stalk up (as if trying to do a right land change).

Again as I said, it's not a massive issue, but it's objectively worse than a traditional indicator stalk behaviour, with no apparent benefit whatsoever. So why bother?

On the plus side, the fact that the indicator stalks are the only thing I can find to complain about is a measure of how good the car is. I had a modified GT86 before this (similar to the guy who posted above....new exhaust header and remap, no FI), and even though that was much improved (no torque dip, about 215bhp), the GR86 is still better again. The extra displacement really has made a difference, they've struck a great balance with having an engine that's torquey enough not to feel gutless anymore, while still being entertaining enough to wring out without going absolutely silly speeds.

If you want to try and replciate (or exceed) it with a GT86 then I think you'd need to consider going for a supercharger. Everyone who put an SC on a GT86 said that felt just like the car had a larger displacement engine.

[Prestonese]

DeejRC said:

Not enough to go around? Instant classic?
Yes, to the same ppl who think/thought spending £60/70k on that Megane thing was sane/cool/classic.

There will be enough because not enough ppl care about it to want one.
I have 2 Toyotas and never even occurred to me to look/think about this thing.

There are many examples of classics which were not revered at the time but on reflection had all the key ingredients for driver appeal.

Some examples - 911 CS, 968 sport, Honda Integra Type R, Lupo Gti, Z3M, Z8, 996 GT3, Audi Quattro, E30 325i, E30 318is, Clip 182, 205 Rallye, 106 Rallye, 306 GTi, Cayman R, Cayman GTS. The latter is interesting as I don't think new 4.0 will be a classic despite it being a better car as they made 3x the number as the original. A good 981 GTS or 987R doesn't hang around as they are more emotive cars however you spin the story about the 4.0. At the time of launch it is easy to forget how they were not hugely fashionable and were tricky to sell. The other examples given above were mostly quite niche and struggled to shift back in the days.

The original GT86 is unlikely/less likely to be a classic but the BRZ might be given the numbers. There are more ingredients to the GR86 being a classic than another modern M3 or M5 and to some extent even some of the more recent GT3s as I think there are too many versions of these cars and plenty to choose from and only a limited audience.

Fashions might change though but rarity is always a common factor for classic status.

[ecsrobin]

Conscript said:

On the plus side, the fact that the indicator stalks are the only thing I can find to complain about is a measure of how good the car is. I had a modified GT86 before this (similar to the guy who posted above....new exhaust header and remap, no FI), and even though that was much improved (no torque dip, about 215bhp), the GR86 is still better again. The extra displacement really has made a difference, they've struck a great balance with having an engine that's torquey enough not to feel gutless anymore, while still being entertaining enough to wring out without going absolutely silly speeds.

If you want to try and replciate (or exceed) it with a GT86 then I think you'd need to consider going for a supercharger. Everyone who put an SC on a GT86 said that felt just like the car had a larger displacement engine.

Bit of a hard one to answer / what if but obviously a lot of reviews for the GT86 was about the engine so you think if it had come with this engine back when it launched it would be a great car that sold well or is it the whole package of the GR?

[Conscript]

ecsrobin said:

Conscript said:

On the plus side, the fact that the indicator stalks are the only thing I can find to complain about is a measure of how good the car is. I had a modified GT86 before this (similar to the guy who posted above....new exhaust header and remap, no FI), and even though that was much improved (no torque dip, about 215bhp), the GR86 is still better again. The extra displacement really has made a difference, they've struck a great balance with having an engine that's torquey enough not to feel gutless anymore, while still being entertaining enough to wring out without going absolutely silly speeds.

If you want to try and replciate (or exceed) it with a GT86 then I think you'd need to consider going for a supercharger. Everyone who put an SC on a GT86 said that felt just like the car had a larger displacement engine.

Bit of a hard one to answer / what if but obviously a lot of reviews for the GT86 was about the engine so you think if it had come with this engine back when it launched it would be a great car that sold well or is it the whole package of the GR?

I reckon the old car with this engine would have sold much better. The universal criticism the old car was the gutless midrange of the engine, and that's no longer the case. That said, I do feel the GR is a better package overall - not hugely, it still feels very familiar. It feels a bit more solid and planted, and the gearbox feels nicer and the interior is more refined. But the engine improvement is what you notice the most, by far.

Put it this way...I had the old car for 9 years, and the only major modification I felt was needed was to the engine to smooth out that torque dip. And it took me 4 years to do that. I never touched suspension steering, brakes, anything like that.

[C5L]

LBW2020 said:

I think i need to clarify...

i like the GR86 dont get me wrong...but i cant ever see it being a classic, 40 years from now young people won't know what a rear drive N/A car is and will never have driven one, they won't be on anyones bedroom walls, and they won't care and prices will likely be very low...

if you want a classic buy a first model Tesla now...and store it ...it will be like buying that first apple computer...

i just think 30k for this is a lot when you can buy second hand and pick up a damn good M3...

I get the driving dynamics and even the fun of driving a low powered car on the edge .....but classic i cant see it....but i will never know as i will likely be long dead....

hopefully !

I do understand your point but the GR86 at 30k for a Brand New car is great value for a standalone sport car.

Bare in mind a Toyota Aygo X cost 22k in top form... this GR86 technically if you service it with Toyota every year has a 10 year warranty !!

also it is fantastic to drive, no ifs no buts compared to anything, i have a M2c, CSL, Integra Type R and Yaris and i still chose this through the freezing over... In the last 3 weeks i have put on 1000miles and have not yet seen a motorway.

Compared to a 30k used M3 or M5 this is the better drivers car... and if you think the £0k used M3 is better wait till you have to pay for replacement discs and pads... let alone servicing fluids...

yes the Toyota has is flaws, rear seats are stupid, the plastics quality is not great, and why is there no lane assist or adaptive cruise if the Yaris can have it on a manual box... but it was to keep the costs down and the money went where it mattered .. on the way it drives and repsonds. The steering at first feels a but numb and muted but a few miles in you acclimatise.

to those of us who have one what a brilliant car, Toyota have to be commended. most suprising thing is that Torsen Diff and the brakes the ABS calibration is spot on, even on ice.

30k is lot if money but for this car its a bargain.

I expect by 2k the rear tyres my be past their best but i tell you what its been a hoot.

track mode, Traction control long press off and off you go sideways .... th

[estoril m3]

Sorry I just don't get the hype on these..???

Firstly. it looks like a Hyundai or some cheap Korean cr*a*p, and secondly still not enough power, same as the Yaris GR.....

I mean 184 lbs ft ... Even my daily diesel has 284 - come on...

Ah well I suppose someone will buy them but certainly NEVER me...

[Conscript]

estoril m3 said:

Sorry I just don't get the hype on these..???

Firstly. it looks like a Hyundai or some cheap Korean cr*a*p, and secondly still not enough power, same as the Yaris GR.....

I mean 184 lbs ft ... Even my daily diesel has 284 - come on...

Ah well I suppose someone will buy them but certainly NEVER me...

Not enough power for what?

[davyvee]

estoril m3 said:

Sorry I just don't get the hype on these..???

Firstly. it looks like a Hyundai or some cheap Korean cr*a*p, and secondly still not enough power, same as the Yaris GR.....

I mean 184 lbs ft ... Even my daily diesel has 284 - come on...

Ah well I suppose someone will buy them but certainly NEVER me...

Obvious troll is obvious.

[Sion111R]

mackie1 said:

Pistonheads: Porches Matter

Made me laugh!

[OPC100]

Conscript said:

estoril m3 said:

Sorry I just don't get the hype on these..???

Firstly. it looks like a Hyundai or some cheap Korean cr*a*p, and secondly still not enough power, same as the Yaris GR.....

I mean 184 lbs ft ... Even my daily diesel has 284 - come on...

Ah well I suppose someone will buy them but certainly NEVER me...

Not enough power for what?

Doing 200mph in his dreams.

[Enut]

estoril m3 said:

Sorry I just don't get the hype on these..???

Firstly. it looks like a Hyundai or some cheap Korean cr*a*p, and secondly still not enough power, same as the Yaris GR.....

I mean 184 lbs ft ... Even my daily diesel has 284 - come on...

Ah well I suppose someone will buy them but certainly NEVER me...

I presume you just drive on track then? Both have a more than ample amount of power for UK roads, IMO obv.
And don't worry plenty of people will appreciate these cars for the brilliant cars they are. Not enough power, hahaha.

[ecsrobin]

Enut said:

estoril m3 said:

Sorry I just don't get the hype on these..???

Firstly. it looks like a Hyundai or some cheap Korean cr*a*p, and secondly still not enough power, same as the Yaris GR.....

I mean 184 lbs ft ... Even my daily diesel has 284 - come on...

Ah well I suppose someone will buy them but certainly NEVER me...

I presume you just drive on track then? Both have a more than ample amount of power for UK roads, IMO obv.
And don't worry plenty of people will appreciate these cars for the brilliant cars they are. Not enough power, hahaha.

Even on track he’s dreaming.

Tuned cars but the M4 had to give way to the Yaris at Tsukuba.

[smilo996]

Sometimes Japanese car companies make very odd decisions. This is one of them. Not to make as many as they can sell of this car seems like the same kind of Hari Kiri that was Subaru and the Imprezza of Big H taking decades to make a MotoGP rep and so on. Clearly GR has been the sort of project engineers who spend decades designing mundane cars have relished and the customers love. Win, win. They could learn a bit from the French about making mundane sexy but otherwise and what a perfect car to tinker with.

[dvshannow]

DanielSan said:

LBW2020 said:

I think i need to clarify...

i like the GR86 dont get me wrong...but i cant ever see it being a classic, 40 years from now young people won't know what a rear drive N/A car is and will never have driven one, they won't be on anyones bedroom walls, and they won't care and prices will likely be very low...

if you want a classic buy a first model Tesla now...and store it ...it will be like buying that first apple computer...

i just think 30k for this is a lot when you can buy second hand and pick up a damn good M3...

I get the driving dynamics and even the fun of driving a low powered car on the edge .....but classic i cant see it....but i will never know as i will likely be long dead....

hopefully !

People will have said the same thing about the AE86 Corolla in the 80's as well. After all who'd get excited about a Toyota Corolla and pay silly money for a nearly 40 year old one...

Disagree people will forget however I highly doubt most people would ever consider one - think of how painful it will be to drive an ICE car when there are no fuel stations except v special ones

So they will be real enthusiasts cars

And the bar to owning one will be v high , think Porsche GT products will almost def keep value , things like GR86 and GR Yaris are more uncertain. At some point all above will be worth a lot but only as most examples have been scrapped.

[spikyone]

smilo996 said:

Sometimes Japanese car companies make very odd decisions. This is one of them. Not to make as many as they can sell of this car seems like the same kind of Hari Kiri that was Subaru and the Imprezza of Big H taking decades to make a MotoGP rep and so on.

That's not what has happened. They are making as many as they can sell, the UK is not the only market. The issue is that they can only sell them here for a couple of years due to new passive safety rules that would require a significant structural redesign. It literally won't be legal to sell them here in future. They aren't likely to divert cars from other markets to the UK and Europe.

Simon Owen said:

In answer to the question “how much” we were c£5k all in on our GT86, we went low mileage used base car so significant under £30k all in for a super reliable package. Dynamically with springs, dampers & subtle geo tweaks (NOT slammed) the chassis was sublime, and the way the thing changed direction down a uk b road was jaw dropping. Back to back with far more exotic machinery I never felt short changed.

Engine work wasn’t so successful in my eyes, yes torque dip removed (see below) but it still sounded coarse and a bit ‘asmatic’ compared to a good NA free reving 4 pot. We ran next to a BBR nd mx5 and the engine in the 86 felt poor compared to the sky active Mazda unit. Chassis in the Toyota however was in a different universe, the steering in particular a true stand out feature compared to the nd.

We had some of the best individual drives I have ever had in the 86, in any car at any price, but eventually the engine got to me and we ‘upgraded’ to an A110.

Torque dip removal details below:



Had the GR86 been available for a back to back test drive with the A110 I’m not sure what the outcome would have been ?

Edited by Simon Owen on Tuesday 27th December 11:42

Yeah, I think that's part where you'd miss out the most - the engine. An extra 10% power (or more) compared to a NA GT, with better delivery, will make a big difference. I had the NA tune before supercharging mine and it was a definite improvement over stock, I imagine the 2.4 is another noticeable step.

The other stuff is things like the stability control calibration, which has steadily been improved over time (even with the facelift GT), and the interior technology and some materials. I do wonder how a better suspension setup on the GT would compare to the GR; I have KW V3 on my GT and it's a huge improvement over stock for ride quality.