RE: New Defender V8 Islay Edition takes the biscuit

[TEKNOPUG]

Jon_S_Rally said:

TEKNOPUG said:

So the people actually buying these cars have no interest in them and they are purely investments, destined never to be driven but everyone else who can't afford one should stop bemoaning the price......because......

Because people can spend their money however they like, and it's none of our business?

So people can't express an opinion of the cost of a car from an article which describes it as "a £230k restomod sugar-rush"? I'd say the price is one of the most prominent features of the car. The idea that people aren't going to discuss the fact that an old Land Rover with some tweed and wood is commanding £230k seems somewhat fanciful.

[Jon_S_Rally]

TEKNOPUG said:

So people can't express an opinion of the cost of a car from an article which describes it as "a £230k restomod sugar-rush"? I'd say the price is one of the most prominent features of the car. The idea that people aren't going to discuss the fact that an old Land Rover with some tweed and wood is commanding £230k seems somewhat fanciful.

People can discuss whatever they want but, as I and others have said numerous times recently, it's getting a bit boring that almost every thread about a new car is dominated by pages and pages of complaints about the price from people who were never the target market in the first place. I wouldn't spend £5,000 on a suit, but I don't feel the need to stalk fashion forums, moaning about the fact that other people would.

Anyway, the point of my response was more that people can spend their money however they wish. I don't see why anyone should get bent out of shape if a person buys a car as an investment. If they get something they're happy with and JLR (or whoever else) sell cars and make money, who cares? We're all different. There are no right or wrong answers, or rules determining why someone should buy something, or what they should use it for.

[Aids0G]

Whenever these specials come out it reminds me how Land Rover just gave up on developing the Defenders drivetrain somewhere in 2012. If the 5.0 V8 can be made to fit with the 8 speed ZF why on earth did they not offer a 3.0SDV6/3.0 SC during series production or even just an auto box!

County spec 110 in green with steel wheels and a diesel V6 would have been brilliant aside from the usual Defender caveats!

[NomduJour]

Aids0G said:

aside from the usual Defender caveats

Of which there are many. Remember these are based on existing cars, so won’t need to meet the emissions regulations that were a part of why it died.

[Aids0G]

NomduJour said:

Aids0G said:

aside from the usual Defender caveats

Of which there are many. Remember these are based on existing cars, so won’t need to meet the emissions regulations that were a part of why it died.

I think I may have slipped into shouting at the clouds again! INEOS have managed it but then again they have carried over a bit of discomfort, but this time for the left foot instead of the right arm!

[AstonDamascus]

Over two hundred grand for a 'Rover?

I am a huge LR fan - I have one sat on my drive - but, golly, this is madness of the highest order!

But if people are willing to pay that then, good luck to JLR!

[TEKNOPUG]

Jon_S_Rally said:

TEKNOPUG said:

So people can't express an opinion of the cost of a car from an article which describes it as "a £230k restomod sugar-rush"? I'd say the price is one of the most prominent features of the car. The idea that people aren't going to discuss the fact that an old Land Rover with some tweed and wood is commanding £230k seems somewhat fanciful.

People can discuss whatever they want but, as I and others have said numerous times recently, it's getting a bit boring that almost every thread about a new car is dominated by pages and pages of complaints about the price from people who were never the target market in the first place. I wouldn't spend £5,000 on a suit, but I don't feel the need to stalk fashion forums, moaning about the fact that other people would.

Anyway, the point of my response was more that people can spend their money however they wish. I don't see why anyone should get bent out of shape if a person buys a car as an investment. If they get something they're happy with and JLR (or whoever else) sell cars and make money, who cares? We're all different. There are no right or wrong answers, or rules determining why someone should buy something, or what they should use it for.

Buying a suit for £5k is a good analogy, as for that money you'd get a bespoke unique suit tailored to your specifications. Whereas for £230k you get an off the peg restomod that 29 other people will have the same.

People aren't complaining that the price is too much and it's not fair that the can't afford one. They are querying the value of the product against the price, as you could have a truly individual Defender of similar or greater spec for considerably less money. Or considerably better for the same money.

Equally I don't see why anyone who wanted to buy one would be bothered what strangers on the internet think. But some of the replies suggest otherwise. The price is literally the most outstanding thing about this Defender, people are going to talk about it.

If it was £50k people would talk about what great value it is.

[dvs_dave]

£230k, ok I get it. Nuff said on that. But ffs, if you’re charging that much, at least put some effort into making the shifter a little less incongruous. Talk about an obvious parts bin straight swap.

Could they really not have put a rubber gaiter and plastic knob on the top closer to how originals were? Just seems really lazy.

[hairykrishna]

Jon_S_Rally said:

People can discuss whatever they want but, as I and others have said numerous times recently, it's getting a bit boring that almost every thread about a new car is dominated by pages and pages of complaints about the price from people who were never the target market in the first place. I wouldn't spend £5,000 on a suit, but I don't feel the need to stalk fashion forums, moaning about the fact that other people would.

Anyway, the point of my response was more that people can spend their money however they wish. I don't see why anyone should get bent out of shape if a person buys a car as an investment. If they get something they're happy with and JLR (or whoever else) sell cars and make money, who cares? We're all different. There are no right or wrong answers, or rules determining why someone should buy something, or what they should use it for.

Isn't it also getting a bit boring that every 'new' model is an old model with some tat stuck to it though?

Anyone buying this shows a startling lack of imagination. Is this really the best Defender you could get for quarter of a million pounds? I'd argue no. Might be the best investment I suppose.

[romac]

Deranged Rover said:

If I had the money, I'd have one of these like a shot!

Although I'd want a bottle of Laphroaig 33 year-old thrown in for good measure.

I think it would need to be a bottle of Isabella's Islay to make it worth it for me!

[Mikebentley]

Should this thread not be titled “8 Year old Defender Restomod”.

[PSB1967]

Forget the insanity of the price for a moment and take a moment to look at the pictures. What a fantastic set of pictures, almost automotive art, that couldn't be more perfect for its subject. Well done to whomever snapped them.

[DonkeyApple]

PSB1967 said:

Forget the insanity of the price for a moment and take a moment to look at the pictures. What a fantastic set of pictures, almost automotive art, that couldn't be more perfect for its subject. Well done to whomever snapped them.

If they told us how much they were paid we could complain about it being too much also?

[jamespink]

A quarter of a million... 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Gwilliamlloyd]

I USED TO LOVE LANDROVERS , HAVING MANY MODELS IN THE PAST ,S1 , S11 ,DEFENDERS ,TINKERING AWAY FOR HOURS . I CARED A LOT ABOUT LANDROVER AND WHAT WAS HAPPENING WITH THE COMPANY , BUT THESE DAYS I COULD NOT GIVE TWO st$ IF THEY WENT BUST TOMORROW. THEY USED TO BE FUN VEHICLES TO DRIVE AND PLAY WITH . WE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO MADE THEM WHAT THEY WERE , BUT NO MORE . NOW JUST BILLIONAIRES TOYS HARDLY USED PARKED IN DEHUMIDIFIED GARAGES .£250,000 MY AR$$E...

[Gwilliamlloyd]

Jon_S_Rally said:

People can discuss whatever they want but, as I and others have said numerous times recently, it's getting a bit boring that almost every thread about a new car is dominated by pages and pages of complaints about the price from people who were never the target market in the first place. I wouldn't spend £5,000 on a suit, but I don't feel the need to stalk fashion forums, moaning about the fact that other people would.

Anyway, the point of my response was more that people can spend their money however they wish. I don't see why anyone should get bent out of shape if a person buys a car as an investment. If they get something they're happy with and JLR (or whoever else) sell cars and make money, who cares? We're all different. There are no right or wrong answers, or rules determining why someone should buy something, or what they should use it for.

. THEN WHY PUT THE ADVERT ON A WEBSITE LIKE THIS THEN ? HOW MANY PEOPLE BUYING THESE (£250,000 ) READ AND DISCUSS ON HERE ? JUST BLOODY CHEAP ADVERTISING

[Jon_S_Rally]

TEKNOPUG said:

Buying a suit for £5k is a good analogy, as for that money you'd get a bespoke unique suit tailored to your specifications. Whereas for £230k you get an off the peg restomod that 29 other people will have the same.

People aren't complaining that the price is too much and it's not fair that the can't afford one. They are querying the value of the product against the price, as you could have a truly individual Defender of similar or greater spec for considerably less money. Or considerably better for the same money.

Equally I don't see why anyone who wanted to buy one would be bothered what strangers on the internet think. But some of the replies suggest otherwise. The price is literally the most outstanding thing about this Defender, people are going to talk about it.

If it was £50k people would talk about what great value it is.

You're not going to get a top-of-the-line, bespoke car from a major manufacturer on the cheap. Just look at what the likes of Singer and Eagle charge for proper bespoke builds, and they aren't hamstrung by the same bureaucracy that a big company like JLR has to deal with. And, even if there is a massive mark-up, if customers are willing to pay it, why shouldn't JLR charge it? They're a business at the end of the day.

Ultimately, the value is determined solely by whether or not they sell. Given that every other Works Defender has sold, it's not hard to imagine that these will sell too. And, like I said, a bit of discussion about price is fine, but these threads are never that. They are almost always 90% about the price, 10% about the car. That doesn't just go for this one, it goes for just about every car launch; from hot hatch to top-end restomod. It's just a bit tiresome.

hairykrishna said:

Isn't it also getting a bit boring that every 'new' model is an old model with some tat stuck to it though?

Anyone buying this shows a startling lack of imagination. Is this really the best Defender you could get for quarter of a million pounds? I'd argue no. Might be the best investment I suppose.

If people are buying them, why shouldn't manufacturers offer them?

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean others don't. Everyone wants different things. Your "startling lack of imagination" is someone else's dream car.

Gwilliamlloyd said:

THEN WHY PUT THE ADVERT ON A WEBSITE LIKE THIS THEN ? HOW MANY PEOPLE BUYING THESE (£250,000 ) READ AND DISCUSS ON HERE ? JUST BLOODY CHEAP ADVERTISING

There's no need to shout. I don't think you understand how this website works. This isn't an advert. Manufacturers send out press releases for new products and automotive media outlets write articles about them.

Also, this is a car news website. Its membership is (you would hope) interested in reading about cars, so why wouldn't it be featured? If it only featured cars we could all afford, it would be a pretty boring place.

[DonkeyApple]

Gwilliamlloyd said:

I USED TO LOVE LANDROVERS , HAVING MANY MODELS IN THE PAST ,S1 , S11 ,DEFENDERS ,TINKERING AWAY FOR HOURS . I CARED A LOT ABOUT LANDROVER AND WHAT WAS HAPPENING WITH THE COMPANY , BUT THESE DAYS I COULD NOT GIVE TWO st$ IF THEY WENT BUST TOMORROW. THEY USED TO BE FUN VEHICLES TO DRIVE AND PLAY WITH . WE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO MADE THEM WHAT THEY WERE , BUT NO MORE . NOW JUST BILLIONAIRES TOYS HARDLY USED PARKED IN DEHUMIDIFIED GARAGES .£250,000 MY AR$$E...

And yet, the entire time that you were driving around in your Land Rovers the company was doing exactly what it is doing today.

So, what has changed to make you so upset today versus the past? Well it's not the company and they are simply doing what has always been done with LR products so it must be you. What is it that has changed with you to go from not caring to suddenly being seemingly quite angry? Pension not as big as you thought you deserved, neighbours have more money? Something about India? No more Empire?

In addition, no need for caps, we aren't clouds or pigeons.

[TEKNOPUG]

The fact that so many people talk about the price rather than the car, would suggest that the price is more interesting, remarkable and noteworthy than the car itself.....

So maybe the fault lies with the manufacturer who sets the price and the PH editorial team who lead with the price in the article header - clearly they also think that the price is a matter for discussion

There will always be who think that the price is bad Vs those who think it is good. Only seems to the people who don't think the price is too high that get upset about talking about the price. As if they have some emotional involvement or such and have to defend the price. Odd.

Ultimately if it was a great, interesting product, people would be talking about that, rather than the price.

[DonkeyApple]

TEKNOPUG said:

The fact that so many people talk about the price rather than the car, would suggest that the price is more interesting, remarkable and noteworthy than the car itself.....

So maybe the fault lies with the manufacturer who sets the price and the PH editorial team who lead with the price in the article header - clearly they also think that the price is a matter for discussion

There will always be who think that the price is bad Vs those who think it is good. Only seems to the people who don't think the price is too high that get upset about talking about the price. As if they have some emotional involvement or such and have to defend the price. Odd.

Ultimately if it was a great, interesting product, people would be talking about that, rather than the price.

The car itself has all been done before. There is nothing remotely new to the concept of taking an LR product and applying some things and pricing it up to appeal to a small number of buyers. So in that regard there is indeed nothing about this car that wasn't being done half a century ago and through every single decade to today. All you're really looking at here is what engine has been dropped in this time, how the trim has been done and what and where the wood bits go. And in the case of LR, what object, place, brand or person who's vaguely related to the monarch to align it to. Its a tried, tested and fun formula.

In many ways the price is the interesting thing here. Not because it enrages some sad blokes who are just angry at everything these days because they aren't allowed to be angry at the things they really want to blame for the mistakes they've made, or whatever their medical diagnosis is for them, but because previously the tag for these sorts of things was £150k ish. What it shows to me is that the major global currencies really have been heavily devalued over the last dozen or so years.

These sorts of projects are always expensive as each specialist adds their bit along with their profit margin and the State takes their tax cut at each point and then the final entity that sources the customer and puts the sticker on that proclaims it's merit adds their profit and costs and taxes, it all rapidly adds up to a very silly number.

These things aren't cheap to do, despite the claims that they can be knocked up in a shed for £5. You can do a restomod yourself but as soon as you start moving a car around the country for bespoke work and paying a team of employees to run it all the costs leap and you need a minimum number just to amortise those mad costs across.

But you also need to set your RRP correctly. Not to be cheap enough to find buyers but to be reassuringly expensive enough to give confidence to your customers.

What's interesting is how quickly that number has headed to £200k and gone over it for these sorts of toys. Meanwhile, I suspect that JLR couldn't do this and turn a profit if they used the previous £150k tag, or it would be a very close run thing.