Touchscreens now make sense, bye physical buttons...

[ATG]

TheDeuce said:

ATG said:

Having buttons and switches doesn't conflict with automatic adjustment nor does a temperature control button or dial require your eyesight. For example, temp up/down buttons could trigger audible feedback; either voice or just varying the pitch of a tone.

That's all true. But once you have smart automated adjustment doing 90% of the work, why not at that point lose the physical controls?

If audible feedback is suitable to provide confirmation of a touch control position, what's wrong with just a spoken command to carry out the same process?

A spoken command is fine for things you only change occasionally and when speed is not critical (and when the car actually understands what you're saying). When you need to do something quickly, having to form words is a significant additional mental load as well as just being slower than hitting a switch. E.g. mud lands on windscreen neatly in front of driver's eyes, wiper sensor doesn't spot it => manual control right next to steering wheel. Windscreen mists up => manual control, single button that redirects air, turns on a/c, maxes out the fan, turns up the heat. Hazard lights => manual control. Fog lights => manual control. Picking a radio station, spoken command is perfect.

[JimJobs81]

TheDeuce said:

Control of a light output% and temperature of every lightbulb in the house, most lamps are set to turn on automatically depending on when sunset is etc. a single command to turn off all lights/lamps at bedtime is particularly useful.

Obviously control of media and music around the house

As I'm driving home I can turn on the oven to heat up, boil the kettle, turn the underfloor heating on..

I can put the house into holiday mode, whereby it will appear lived in whilst we're away

I can make diary appointments, call people, ask for answers to questions, water the plants, send nav instructions to the car.. this spring it will even have the ability to cut the grass, wherever I am in the world.

What kit are you using and how much did it all cost?

[TheDeuce]

ATG said:

TheDeuce said:

ATG said:

Having buttons and switches doesn't conflict with automatic adjustment nor does a temperature control button or dial require your eyesight. For example, temp up/down buttons could trigger audible feedback; either voice or just varying the pitch of a tone.

That's all true. But once you have smart automated adjustment doing 90% of the work, why not at that point lose the physical controls?

If audible feedback is suitable to provide confirmation of a touch control position, what's wrong with just a spoken command to carry out the same process?

A spoken command is fine for things you only change occasionally and when speed is not critical (and when the car actually understands what you're saying). When you need to do something quickly, having to form words is a significant additional mental load as well as just being slower than hitting a switch. E.g. mud lands on windscreen neatly in front of driver's eyes, wiper sensor doesn't spot it => manual control right next to steering wheel. Windscreen mists up => manual control, single button that redirects air, turns on a/c, maxes out the fan, turns up the heat. Hazard lights => manual control. Fog lights => manual control. Picking a radio station, spoken command is perfect.

Agree about wiper controls and obviously hazard and other lights.

But what's everyone's obsession with needing to constantly fiddle with climate/heating settings? Just set and forget no...?

[Pica-Pica]

pherlopolus said:

I have just moved to varifocal glasses and have to move my head to do anything touchscreen related (rather than just glance left with just eyes).

I have buttons for the heated seats, but it does stuff on the screen as well which is stupid! I also now don't have a dedicated button to take me back to car play, and have to use the touchscreen!

Using muscle memory to find buttons is much more efficient.

I think my current Skoda will be my last new car

Similar with my F30 BMW. New cars all have Lane Keeping Assist (legal requirement - but a nuisance to have to turn off). My F30 has a single press speed limit button, just by my left thumb, some cars have a two-stage process for that.

[pherlopolus]

TheDeuce said:

Or buy a new car which doesn't have such a terrible sounding implementation of the tech?

Useful.

I have 2.5 years to work out what I am doing...

[RicksAlfas]

TheDeuce said:

Agree about wiper controls and obviously hazard and other lights.

But what's everyone's obsession with needing to constantly fiddle with climate/heating settings? Just set and forget no...?

Heated seats and steering wheels? Full power to start with and then turn down/off once into a journey.
I am sure even you can see that is not unreasonable!

[TheDeuce]

RicksAlfas said:

TheDeuce said:

Agree about wiper controls and obviously hazard and other lights.

But what's everyone's obsession with needing to constantly fiddle with climate/heating settings? Just set and forget no...?

Heated seats and steering wheels? Full power to start with and then turn down/off once into a journey.
I am sure even you can see that is not unreasonable!

I do see that as reasonable - as per my OP these things can now be automated, as they are in my car.

That's what caused me to start this thread, because all of a sudden 'missing' controls no longer felt missing, 99% of the time they're now simply not needed.. providing the car is setup intelligently and does a decent job of learning each drivers preferences.

[donkmeister]

TheDeuce said:

But really.. how often do people need to adjust temperature controls? The stuff I used to control manually such as defrost and heated seats is all automatic now. There's no reason I need to adjust the actual temperature - set it at your ideal temp once and forget about it.

This always divides opinion on here...

Whilst the adjustments are rarely more than a degree one way or the other, most people do actually adjust the cabin temperature of their vehicle regularly. No, I don't mean as often as... say... using their indicators, but few people buy a car, set the temperature to 21 then say "right, never need to touch that again". The reasons include:
1) Different clothing requires different ambient temperatures to be comfortable
2) different activities prior to driving require different ambient temperatures to be comfortable
3) hormone levels change core and skin temp, requiring etc
4) different drivers have different preferences, and most cars are not driven exclusively by one driver.

Hence why the controls for climate, whether physical or touch, are usually accessible regardless of whatever else you are doing.

[Fermit]

RicksAlfas said:

The screen is fine for stuff that's not used very often like lighting modes and other settings, but I would much rather have proper buttons for regularly used items.

This is pretty much my thoughts, that for things like nav, sure. Watching a Cybertruck video the other day made me think Tesla had gone too far, steering wheel and seat adjustment on touchscreen. Yeah, that's properly safe for people with different shape partners who both use the vehicle regularly. Sure, people will need to adjust seats most the time, but the steering position? Less likely.

[TheDeuce]

donkmeister said:

TheDeuce said:

But really.. how often do people need to adjust temperature controls? The stuff I used to control manually such as defrost and heated seats is all automatic now. There's no reason I need to adjust the actual temperature - set it at your ideal temp once and forget about it.

This always divides opinion on here...

Whilst the adjustments are rarely more than a degree one way or the other, most people do actually adjust the cabin temperature of their vehicle regularly. No, I don't mean as often as... say... using their indicators, but few people buy a car, set the temperature to 21 then say "right, never need to touch that again". The reasons include:
1) Different clothing requires different ambient temperatures to be comfortable
2) different activities prior to driving require different ambient temperatures to be comfortable
3) hormone levels change core and skin temp, requiring etc
4) different drivers have different preferences, and most cars are not driven exclusively by one driver.

Hence why the controls for climate, whether physical or touch, are usually accessible regardless of whatever else you are doing.

I will admit that for those reasons even I occasionally tweak the cabin temp...

But we're talking a handful of times a year. What I dint understand is why people need to make such adjustments often enough to even have an opinion on whether it's a button/dial or touchscreen control.

[donkmeister]

TheDeuce said:

RicksAlfas said:

TheDeuce said:

Agree about wiper controls and obviously hazard and other lights.

But what's everyone's obsession with needing to constantly fiddle with climate/heating settings? Just set and forget no...?

Heated seats and steering wheels? Full power to start with and then turn down/off once into a journey.
I am sure even you can see that is not unreasonable!

I do see that as reasonable - as per my OP these things can now be automated, as they are in my car.

That's what caused me to start this thread, because all of a sudden 'missing' controls no longer felt missing, 99% of the time they're now simply not needed.. providing the car is setup intelligently and does a decent job of learning each drivers preferences.

My daily is 16 years old and can have heated seats and heated steering wheel automated in the settings, but as it's an activity that is related to human comfort I'd prefer a human to decide rather than a set of conditions. Obviously once it's set, the thermostatic control can be automated.

But then I'm the same with home automation; some have lights and curtains automatically adjusting due to lux values and time of day, but TBH I would rather think "I want to read a book" then hit the "reading" button on the control. Some end up being slaves to their own automations (I know a bloke who has to manually turn his TV and living room lights back on at 11pm because he thought it was a good idea to turn it all off at 11 a few years back, and his daily routine has since changed.)

[TheDeuce]

Fermit said:

RicksAlfas said:

The screen is fine for stuff that's not used very often like lighting modes and other settings, but I would much rather have proper buttons for regularly used items.

This is pretty much my thoughts, that for things like nav, sure. Watching a Cybertruck video the other day made me think Tesla had gone too far, steering wheel and seat adjustment on touchscreen. Yeah, that's properly safe for people with different shape partners who both use the vehicle regularly. Sure, people will need to adjust seats most the time, but the steering position? Less likely.

Each driver sets their ideal positions just once, not each time they drive..

[donkmeister]

TheDeuce said:

donkmeister said:

TheDeuce said:

But really.. how often do people need to adjust temperature controls? The stuff I used to control manually such as defrost and heated seats is all automatic now. There's no reason I need to adjust the actual temperature - set it at your ideal temp once and forget about it.

This always divides opinion on here...

Whilst the adjustments are rarely more than a degree one way or the other, most people do actually adjust the cabin temperature of their vehicle regularly. No, I don't mean as often as... say... using their indicators, but few people buy a car, set the temperature to 21 then say "right, never need to touch that again". The reasons include:
1) Different clothing requires different ambient temperatures to be comfortable
2) different activities prior to driving require different ambient temperatures to be comfortable
3) hormone levels change core and skin temp, requiring etc
4) different drivers have different preferences, and most cars are not driven exclusively by one driver.

Hence why the controls for climate, whether physical or touch, are usually accessible regardless of whatever else you are doing.

I will admit that for those reasons even I occasionally tweak the cabin temp...

But we're talking a handful of times a year. What I dint understand is why people need to make such adjustments often enough to even have an opinion on whether it's a button/dial or touchscreen control.

This is why it divides opinion: I'd say several times a week, and if doing a long journey a couple of times then.

[donkmeister]

TheDeuce said:

Fermit said:

RicksAlfas said:

The screen is fine for stuff that's not used very often like lighting modes and other settings, but I would much rather have proper buttons for regularly used items.

This is pretty much my thoughts, that for things like nav, sure. Watching a Cybertruck video the other day made me think Tesla had gone too far, steering wheel and seat adjustment on touchscreen. Yeah, that's properly safe for people with different shape partners who both use the vehicle regularly. Sure, people will need to adjust seats most the time, but the steering position? Less likely.

Each driver sets their ideal positions just once, not each time they drive..

Again, in your opinion. On a long drive it's recommended to move the seat around a bit.

[TheDeuce]

donkmeister said:

TheDeuce said:

Fermit said:

RicksAlfas said:

The screen is fine for stuff that's not used very often like lighting modes and other settings, but I would much rather have proper buttons for regularly used items.

This is pretty much my thoughts, that for things like nav, sure. Watching a Cybertruck video the other day made me think Tesla had gone too far, steering wheel and seat adjustment on touchscreen. Yeah, that's properly safe for people with different shape partners who both use the vehicle regularly. Sure, people will need to adjust seats most the time, but the steering position? Less likely.

Each driver sets their ideal positions just once, not each time they drive..

Again, in your opinion. On a long drive it's recommended to move the seat around a bit.

It's not my opinion, it's a fact that each driver only needs to set the seat/wheel to suit them once, it's then saved in their profile. I neglected to use the word 'need' - obviously thereay be other reasons a driver chooses to alter their usual seat position.

Do people actually change their seat position around most long journeys? Is this a common practice?

[BenS94]

TheDeuce said:

donkmeister said:

TheDeuce said:

Fermit said:

RicksAlfas said:

The screen is fine for stuff that's not used very often like lighting modes and other settings, but I would much rather have proper buttons for regularly used items.

This is pretty much my thoughts, that for things like nav, sure. Watching a Cybertruck video the other day made me think Tesla had gone too far, steering wheel and seat adjustment on touchscreen. Yeah, that's properly safe for people with different shape partners who both use the vehicle regularly. Sure, people will need to adjust seats most the time, but the steering position? Less likely.

Each driver sets their ideal positions just once, not each time they drive..

Again, in your opinion. On a long drive it's recommended to move the seat around a bit.

It's not my opinion, it's a fact that each driver only needs to set the seat/wheel to suit them once, it's then saved in their profile. I neglected to use the word 'need' - obviously thereay be other reasons a driver chooses to alter their usual seat position.

Do people actually change their seat position around most long journeys? Is this a common practice?

Sounds to me like you're saying "Because I don't do certain things, everyone else is exactly the same"....

[TheDeuce]

BenS94 said:

TheDeuce said:

donkmeister said:

TheDeuce said:

Fermit said:

RicksAlfas said:

The screen is fine for stuff that's not used very often like lighting modes and other settings, but I would much rather have proper buttons for regularly used items.

This is pretty much my thoughts, that for things like nav, sure. Watching a Cybertruck video the other day made me think Tesla had gone too far, steering wheel and seat adjustment on touchscreen. Yeah, that's properly safe for people with different shape partners who both use the vehicle regularly. Sure, people will need to adjust seats most the time, but the steering position? Less likely.

Each driver sets their ideal positions just once, not each time they drive..

Again, in your opinion. On a long drive it's recommended to move the seat around a bit.

It's not my opinion, it's a fact that each driver only needs to set the seat/wheel to suit them once, it's then saved in their profile. I neglected to use the word 'need' - obviously thereay be other reasons a driver chooses to alter their usual seat position.

Do people actually change their seat position around most long journeys? Is this a common practice?

Sounds to me like you're saying "Because I don't do certain things, everyone else is exactly the same"....

I have said no such thing. Asking if people really do something is a question, not an opinion.

[donkmeister]

TheDeuce said:

donkmeister said:

TheDeuce said:

Fermit said:

RicksAlfas said:

The screen is fine for stuff that's not used very often like lighting modes and other settings, but I would much rather have proper buttons for regularly used items.

This is pretty much my thoughts, that for things like nav, sure. Watching a Cybertruck video the other day made me think Tesla had gone too far, steering wheel and seat adjustment on touchscreen. Yeah, that's properly safe for people with different shape partners who both use the vehicle regularly. Sure, people will need to adjust seats most the time, but the steering position? Less likely.

Each driver sets their ideal positions just once, not each time they drive..

Again, in your opinion. On a long drive it's recommended to move the seat around a bit.

It's not my opinion, it's a fact that each driver only needs to set the seat/wheel to suit them once, it's then saved in their profile. I neglected to use the word 'need' - obviously thereay be other reasons a driver chooses to alter their usual seat position.

Do people actually change their seat position around most long journeys? Is this a common practice?

You don't buy an i4 if you do long journeys, so I can appreciate why you wouldn't think about it

But yes, it's been recommended since at least the 90s, I remember an item on old Top Gear as a kid (pre-buffoonery era, where JC was the pube-headed upstart) about it.

This is why they don't lock out seat adjustments when driving. Try it - I'm yet to find a car that doesn't allow it.

[Mr. Potato Head]

TheDeuce said:

BenS94 said:

TheDeuce said:

donkmeister said:

TheDeuce said:

Each driver sets their ideal positions just once, not each time they drive..

Again, in your opinion. On a long drive it's recommended to move the seat around a bit.

It's not my opinion, it's a fact that each driver only needs to set the seat/wheel to suit them once, it's then saved in their profile. I neglected to use the word 'need' - obviously thereay be other reasons a driver chooses to alter their usual seat position.

Do people actually change their seat position around most long journeys? Is this a common practice?

Sounds to me like you're saying "Because I don't do certain things, everyone else is exactly the same"....

I have said no such thing. Asking if people really do something is a question, not an opinion.

[Nomme de Plum]

TheDeuce said:

It's not my opinion, it's a fact that each driver only needs to set the seat/wheel to suit them once, it's then saved in their profile. I neglected to use the word 'need' - obviously thereay be other reasons a driver chooses to alter their usual seat position.

Do people actually change their seat position around most long journeys? Is this a common practice?

I've never ever moved my seat once set. Why would one move the seat away from the optimal driving position.

If I need to move about it's time for a break from driving. For me that's anything over 2.5-3 hours.

I must admit I still like a few knobs / stalks though.