RE: Ineos Grenadier | Spotted
Discussion
Its one of those cars that makes no sense on paper and arguably no sense in real-life BUT according to a friend who has one, they are great fun to drive. And his other car is a Cayenne Turbo. The new Defender is competent, sensible but ever so dull.
I wanted one before the reviews came out, then decided No Way, and now find myself strangely drawn to them again. A bit more depreciation and I may take the plunge, especially looking at what people want for old 110s these days.
I wanted one before the reviews came out, then decided No Way, and now find myself strangely drawn to them again. A bit more depreciation and I may take the plunge, especially looking at what people want for old 110s these days.
NomduJour said:
Grrr, a real man’s car.
Problem is that it’s 2024 and they’re rubbish, as every review has to point out.
I’d wager my 28-year-old P38 has better road manners.
What's it got to do with being a man? Problem is that it’s 2024 and they’re rubbish, as every review has to point out.
I’d wager my 28-year-old P38 has better road manners.
My wife needs an off-road capable 4x4 for work and we've just ordered a new Defender but she happily drives even our most unrefined / agricultural 4x4 (Terrano).The problem with most of the reviews that lambast the Grenadier is that they're judging it by the same criteria they'd use to review a BMW X5. The same people moan that pickups that are designed to carry sizeable payloads are a bit bouncy when empty. No, the Grenadier isn't built to be the sportiest drive on the road or do 50 MPG but it is designed in such a way that you can take it off-road without ripping half the bodywork off and doing £thousands worth of damage every time.
Whether or not your P38 (or my Discovery 2) drives better is another question but I wouldn't simply dismiss the Grenadier because some people don't understand what it's for.
NomduJour said:
No issue with Jim - but it could have been something modern and clever, and it’s the opposite.
I've mentioned this before but you seem to have some sort of personal vendetta against the thing. Whenever someone dares to post anything positive you're there - almost every single time.Out of interest, do you post so religiously about other vehicles you deem "old fashioned" - Caterhams, Morgans or Land Cruiser 70 series?
I'm now four months into Grenadier ownership - I looked at the new Defender but was finally convinced to go Grenadier by the BRG colour scheme - every old Defender that I've owned (seven over the years) has been this colour type (Epsom Green, Galway Green, Aintree Green, etc..) and the current "vomit green" colour doesn't work for me!
Before the Grenadier arrived I trialed the new Defender fairly extensively on and off road and was nearly swayed especially as my Grenadier was over 12 months delayed in delivery.
Just over 3,000 miles into the Grenadier some reflections......
Week 1 - I thought that I'd made a terrible mistake. It felt noisy, clunky and quite unstable on the road at motorway speeds.
After week one and some (minor) off road stuff I got it and have become a convert. Everything falls to hand easily, I keep finding new clever and well thought through touches and on fields and muddy stuff I reckon that it's very hard to beat.
It's pretty thirsty (18mpg) in the 3 litre petrol format but the engine is a delight.
If I wanted a combined family and off road car to take on continental holidays the new Defender (despite all of the recalls and software updates experienced by my Defender owning friends - not that the Grenadier has been immune either!) would probably win the day. As something that I can take over fields, on tracks and generally off road (which in fairness was the original Ineos design brief) the Grenadier is hard to beat in my opinion.
Before the Grenadier arrived I trialed the new Defender fairly extensively on and off road and was nearly swayed especially as my Grenadier was over 12 months delayed in delivery.
Just over 3,000 miles into the Grenadier some reflections......
Week 1 - I thought that I'd made a terrible mistake. It felt noisy, clunky and quite unstable on the road at motorway speeds.
After week one and some (minor) off road stuff I got it and have become a convert. Everything falls to hand easily, I keep finding new clever and well thought through touches and on fields and muddy stuff I reckon that it's very hard to beat.
It's pretty thirsty (18mpg) in the 3 litre petrol format but the engine is a delight.
If I wanted a combined family and off road car to take on continental holidays the new Defender (despite all of the recalls and software updates experienced by my Defender owning friends - not that the Grenadier has been immune either!) would probably win the day. As something that I can take over fields, on tracks and generally off road (which in fairness was the original Ineos design brief) the Grenadier is hard to beat in my opinion.
I rode in a prototype in Wales in summer 2021 I think it was. I really liked it - it is a solid piece of engineering with Tonka style presence, and a capable machine for its intended purpose - and would just about have convinced myself to make a stupid decision at £45k, and loved the original concept of an unashamedly functional, mildly obnoxious, British designed and built 4x4. But then it turned out to be £80k, compromised on the functional aspect, obnoxious in a bad way having dreadful MPG and some questionable ergonomics and design choices, and is built abroad.
I know, I know, don't moan, isn't it great he's managed to actually see it through and give us an 'interesting' new car etc. But the thing is, it would be easier to respect the bloody mindedness in seeing it through had it actually turned out well, or even just ok in terms of sales and market appeal, that is, if it hadn't turned out to be an insane decision that was foreseen as such by many people. One wonders whether anyone at INEOS had the nuts to say anything like "Jim, nobody is questioning your judgement, but you're going to lose a couple of billion on this thing".
Perhaps I'll be proven wrong and the proposed hydrogen/electric cars coming out of this work will sell millions, or perhaps there's some kind of financial engineering that will enable them to deduct the loss elsewhere etc. Or perhaps they'll be an alternative to Toyotas in the apparently incipient WW3 our esteemed leaders appear to be keen on.
There are so, so many other, better things he could have done with that money - even in terms of a completely new car.
Oh and I don't give a flying fig about Brexit. Move on.
I know, I know, don't moan, isn't it great he's managed to actually see it through and give us an 'interesting' new car etc. But the thing is, it would be easier to respect the bloody mindedness in seeing it through had it actually turned out well, or even just ok in terms of sales and market appeal, that is, if it hadn't turned out to be an insane decision that was foreseen as such by many people. One wonders whether anyone at INEOS had the nuts to say anything like "Jim, nobody is questioning your judgement, but you're going to lose a couple of billion on this thing".
Perhaps I'll be proven wrong and the proposed hydrogen/electric cars coming out of this work will sell millions, or perhaps there's some kind of financial engineering that will enable them to deduct the loss elsewhere etc. Or perhaps they'll be an alternative to Toyotas in the apparently incipient WW3 our esteemed leaders appear to be keen on.
There are so, so many other, better things he could have done with that money - even in terms of a completely new car.
Oh and I don't give a flying fig about Brexit. Move on.
We have 2 of these at work. I haven’t driven them yet. One has been broken for more time than it has been running. The other one just has a fault light on constantly. Having moved from JLR cars, the unreliability is familiar.
The regular drivers like them when they are working and they go anywhere off road here. The boss made noises about a fleet of them to replace the ageing L200s but I can’t see that happening unless second hand values keep dropping enough to get something that might compete with an offering from the Far East.
The regular drivers like them when they are working and they go anywhere off road here. The boss made noises about a fleet of them to replace the ageing L200s but I can’t see that happening unless second hand values keep dropping enough to get something that might compete with an offering from the Far East.
My brother-in-law has owned one for a few months now and put a few thousand miles on it; overall he likes the vehicle but there are a few issues that he is not happy about and that are spoiling his ownership experience. There's an issue with the heating, where no matter what he tries he can't get any heat in the footwells, not ideal at this time of year.
The rear passenger doors often don't latch properly - he lost a bag of Christmas shopping on a roundabout recently as the door swung open of its own accord. Other minor niggles with the infotainment system; oh.. and with an overall 18 mpg it's proving more expensive to run than he thought.
But what really irks him is that there doesn't appear to be any progress on the establishment of regional service centres (in Scotland) - some of the issues he's having might be resolved by a software update or a visit to the dealer - not easy when it's 180 miles away in Edinburgh.
Ineos selling the vehicles without ensuring that there are sufficient, conveniently available and competent service facilities is a major screw-up on their part.
I get the feeling that there may be a hint of buyer regret, though he says he's going to hold on to it just now.
Personally I like the vehicle, though I don't think I would ever buy one - too heavy/uneconomical and not well enough supported.
The rear passenger doors often don't latch properly - he lost a bag of Christmas shopping on a roundabout recently as the door swung open of its own accord. Other minor niggles with the infotainment system; oh.. and with an overall 18 mpg it's proving more expensive to run than he thought.
But what really irks him is that there doesn't appear to be any progress on the establishment of regional service centres (in Scotland) - some of the issues he's having might be resolved by a software update or a visit to the dealer - not easy when it's 180 miles away in Edinburgh.
Ineos selling the vehicles without ensuring that there are sufficient, conveniently available and competent service facilities is a major screw-up on their part.
I get the feeling that there may be a hint of buyer regret, though he says he's going to hold on to it just now.
Personally I like the vehicle, though I don't think I would ever buy one - too heavy/uneconomical and not well enough supported.
Lefty said:
There are service centres in Dingwall and Huntly. Agreed, a bit sparse in the highlands but that’s probably true for most manufacturers.
Don't know about the one in Huntly, but he was telling me this weekend that he's been in contact with the one in Dingwall and although they are officially an Ineos service centre, they have received no training, equipment or other resources to support the vehicles. Nothing, nada.I'll tell him that there's one in Huntly and he can look in to that, it's a lot closer at least at only 60 miles away. Cheers.
Beside railway station, G&L Marshall. Nice people. They look after quite a few, have had all the training, have access to all the
computers, software, records and stuff. I popped in just to say hello and see what they were like, they checked that all the recall work had been done on mine (it has) and such like.
computers, software, records and stuff. I popped in just to say hello and see what they were like, they checked that all the recall work had been done on mine (it has) and such like.
rassi said:
How can it weigh so much, and achieve such poor MPG with the excellent BMW B57 engine?
Large vehicle, two gearboxes, massive axles, body-on-frame construction. Yes, they are heavy. Shame, it would have been a good move for the (admittedly small) UK market if it had been capable of taking a one tonne capacity.Fuel consumption, well, mine does high 20's on a long run (on AT's), mid 20's day-to-day (on winter tyres currently). I just put 69 litres in and it had done 420 miles, that's 26mpg. Combination of low speed driving round the farm, towing a 16ft trailer and a twice weekly trip of 80 miles. If you saw Harry Metcalfes video on taking a defender d300 to the alps he complained it was only doing mid-high 20's so roughly comparable. Heavy thing, large front area, crap drag coefficient.
Moss Feen said:
Brexit was voted for 23 /06 /2016 Nearly 8 years ago and some people are still crying about it
Jeez Grow Up and Move On
Bunch of Sad B4stards
It's not one-time event to move on from, it's an ongoing self-inflicted clusterfJeez Grow Up and Move On
Bunch of Sad B4stards
k that has real, negative impacts on UK business. Headlines this week - the national farmers' union saying UK fruit and flower farmers facing 'an existential threat' with new border checks due to start (having been delayed 5 times).https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/22/b...
The UK farming sector was largely pro-Brexit I think, and now they're finding out that it actually has made things worse for them. That will cost INEOS some sales in the UK non-urban market. Although the inability to recover VAT will be the biggest turn-off!
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