RE: TVR Speed Six Design Spec Upgrade

[baguaman]

this melling knows his engines... but hes like a mad scientist in the lab unaware of whats happening in the real world... the tuscan handling is crap until fixed..sorry tuscan owners..i love the car even though the handling is crap....if there is any logic in that kinda thinking.

that level of power with that kinda handling...
mmm.. danger beckons..

but for the guys with 10k to play with (or in some subjective opinions waste) .. its a dream upgrade

[Housey]

Let's see some engines in Tiv's dong the claimed numbers as until then it's more Melling paper releases. More press hype from Melling and very little substance.

[PascalBuyens]

Tvr Power said:

PascalBuyens said:

smele said:

Gridl0k said:

stuthemong said:

surrounded by charred £100 notes.

Which bank does these? All of them? Never seen one.

You would be surprised what Scottish banks print.




Can't wait to see someone with a 550BHP car on the road.

Soon, but it won't be a Melling engine.....

Supercharged is the only reliable power to offer this has all ready been achieved by TVR 3yrs ago with a 4 ltr 10:00:1 engine running 10lbs boost,595 bhp with 490 ftlbs

Dom

Let's hope that that engine doesn't have the "Indian conrods" that somehow turned out to be in my car...

[eldudereno]

jonnylayze said:

PascalBuyens said:

tegwin said:

Amazing stuff... but why would you spend that much money to still have an engine that is not ever going to be 100% reliable when you could just pop a BMW straight 6 straight in, spend some money tuning it and pocket the change!

Because, by doing so, you'd take away the TVR soul... Just like putting in a US V8, it's just simply wrong...

How is fitting a US V8 wrong. Like many others I think that this is the route TVR should have taken in the first place - either to fit the BMW 6 or V8 or fit a Chevy V8. If they'd done this, rather than pursuing aspirations well beyond the development budget they had available compared to the likes of Porsche or Ferrari, they'd probably still be in business now.

Considering the complete disaster the Speed 6 engine was, how can anyone still think that TVR did the right thing? Chevy V8 all the way for me, why re-invent the wheel. Even with the AJP V8 I recall one poor guy returning home after buying his dream car and the bl**dy crankshaft snapped!!!

[chumleyuk]

I see the Speed Six as a bit of an Eliza Doolittle character. Needs to be taught some manners but once done it is one of the most awesome engines out there.

[sidewayz]

Tvr Power said:

Mr Melling i challenge you to make 550 bhp if you do this i personally will buy your first 4.7 ltr engine and promote your package and do away with my 4.3 packages. DEAL OR NO DEAL...........

Dom

Just read this.Brilliant Dom

[MarkoTVR]

tegwin said:

Amazing stuff... but why would you spend that much money to still have an engine that is not ever going to be 100% reliable

Worked on the new design then, did you? I assume you did and know it intimately, given your confident statement that it's not going to be 100% reliable.

At this point I'll say 'VANOS' and give you the option to speak to a friend whose M3 shat it's engine before he'd even got it home from the dealership. Perhaps those evil engine gremlins had retro-fitted a Speed 6 whilst it was on the forecourt and no-one was looking, eh?

Edited by MarkoTVR on Wednesday 13th May 00:20

[dvs_dave]

baguaman said:

... the tuscan handling is crap until fixed..sorry tuscan owners..i love the car even though the handling is crap....if there is any logic in that kinda thinking. that level of power with that kinda handling...
mmm.. danger beckons..

996 Cabriolet and again

[JonRB]

MarkoTVR said:

shat it's engine

Sorry, but that just made me LOL.

Edit: I mean the phrase. Not the occurrence.

Edited by JonRB on Wednesday 13th May 00:41

[JR]

Gazboy said:

sidewayz said:

Mark A S said:

said some good stuff and ...

Personally, I find it a bit hard to believe, as I have a 4.3 SP 6 in my Tuscan from TVR power which puts out 415 BHP and 400 torques, it is an immense engine.
Another 101 BHP for a 200 cc increase appears optimistic, unless its revs like hell.

+1

Having read the spec and compared it with the changes on my 4.3
the differences that might deliver more power are

an extra 200 cc ( for the 516 bhp version)
different cam profile?
mods to follower geometry?
piston geometry?

Billet this and that,low frictions coatings etc may help it rev more but it's going to have to rev like a nutter to do an additional 100bhp.

Then for the 550bhp version you have an additional 200cc?

Wonder what the torque is like?

What has been overlooked is that Melling has stated this power has been acheived on an engine dyno, now who is going to take their engine out and put it on an independent engine dyno to test his claim?

What sidewayz has also overlooked is the significant "repositioned the cams and finger followers"

[Fume troll]

Here's a wee calculation:

550 bhp at 7500 rpm equates to 385 ft-lbs torque. For a 4700cc engine this equates to about 202.5 BMEP.

(using lower rpms means even higher BMEP, for example if the engine produced 550 bhp at 6500 rpm BMEP would be producing 444 ft-lbs for a DTM/F1/Nextel cup level BMEP of 230)

Compare with:

BMW M3 CSL 3,246cc, 360bhp, 274lb-ft, 208.6psi (produces peak power at 7900 rpm)
Porsche 997 GT3RS 3,600cc 409bhp, 298lb-ft, 204.2psi (produces peak power at 7600rpm)
Ferrari Enzo 5,988cc 660bhp, 484lb-ft, 200.0psi (produces peak power at 8200rpm)

So it's not impossible, it's just rather hard to do. And rather peaky!

Can we have some torque figures please Mr Melling? Or a dyno chart?

Cheers,

FT.

[PascalBuyens]

eldudereno said:

jonnylayze said:

PascalBuyens said:

tegwin said:

Amazing stuff... but why would you spend that much money to still have an engine that is not ever going to be 100% reliable when you could just pop a BMW straight 6 straight in, spend some money tuning it and pocket the change!

Because, by doing so, you'd take away the TVR soul... Just like putting in a US V8, it's just simply wrong...

How is fitting a US V8 wrong. Like many others I think that this is the route TVR should have taken in the first place - either to fit the BMW 6 or V8 or fit a Chevy V8. If they'd done this, rather than pursuing aspirations well beyond the development budget they had available compared to the likes of Porsche or Ferrari, they'd probably still be in business now.

Considering the complete disaster the Speed 6 engine was, how can anyone still think that TVR did the right thing? Chevy V8 all the way for me, why re-invent the wheel. Even with the AJP V8 I recall one poor guy returning home after buying his dream car and the bl**dy crankshaft snapped!!!

When my Speed Six broke down, I looked for a Chevy V8 transplant, specifically the LS7. Guess what? It doesn't fit in a Tuscan.

As for BMW engines... nothing against BMW, I owned 11 so far, but if I wanted a BMW powered roadster, I'd buy a Wiesmann. Then again, that car simply doesn't have the heritage that TVR has, does it? (hope that explains my point a bit).

As for engine transplants, I'm very aware of what it can do to a car (I used to have a Honda Type R powered Lotus Elise before). Just not my thing anymore, had too much troubles over here in Belgium to get it all "road legal".

Besides, you should be proud that with all the car madness in the UK, people tried to stay British...

Edited by PascalBuyens on Wednesday 13th May 08:33

Edited by PascalBuyens on Wednesday 13th May 08:35

[Jasandjules]

It may already be somewhere on here (I'm not going to search through the thread!), but what guarantee does this engine have?

After all, it seems pointless getting a new engine fitted at quite a cost (being honest), then to have it go t**s up. It probably won't because it has been designed the way the Speed 6 should have been BUT still, there's always a chance.

[Harry Flashman]

VerySideways said:

No, not being sarcastic - it's an Imperial blue Cerb for silly money, what's not to like? Buy it, send it off to Power for a 4.3 and Nitrons and you've got a seriously awesome car for way under £20k.

Agreed!

Bet it's gone by the time this thread ends.

If I weren't doing new kitchen and bathrooms at the moment, I would have been on the phone yesterday. I have been looking for a practical second car to go with the Morgan.

[sidewayz]

JR said:

What sidewayz has also overlooked is the significant "repositioned the cams and finger followers"

Could be-I am rather dim JR.
I would really like to understand the detail behind this issue as I have read the various threads and talked to some engine developers but I am still not clear on precisely what changed,by how much and why its effect on lift is so critical.Is it so differnt that it leads to an additional 100bhp? Honest question and anyone who wants to mail me the answer please do.
If the inventive Mr Melling can acheive the bhp with decent torque and a 5 year warranty for the money stated then I think that is just great. We have even more options.

[sidewayz]

Fume troll said:

So it's not impossible, it's just rather hard to do. And rather peaky!

Can we have some torque figures please Mr Melling? Or a dyno chart?

Cheers,

FT.

+1 That would answer a lot of questions.

[The Wookie]

Fume troll said:

Compare with:

BMW M3 CSL 3,246cc, 360bhp, 274lb-ft, 208.6psi (produces peak power at 7900 rpm)
Porsche 997 GT3RS 3,600cc 409bhp, 298lb-ft, 204.2psi (produces peak power at 7600rpm)
Ferrari Enzo 5,988cc 660bhp, 484lb-ft, 200.0psi (produces peak power at 8200rpm)

All of those have some combination of cam phasing/profile switching, active inlets and active exhausts.

In short, you could make it that powerful on a 'basic' engine, but it would idle like a pig and have rubbish driveability. It would effectively have to be like a race engine.

[Harry Flashman]

dvs_dave said:

baguaman said:

... the tuscan handling is crap until fixed..sorry tuscan owners..i love the car even though the handling is crap....if there is any logic in that kinda thinking. that level of power with that kinda handling...
mmm.. danger beckons..

996 Cabriolet and again

Guys, let's not make this another TVR vs The World thread, please.

996 cab is a great handling car. Tuscan, frankly, is a bit hairy, but that's why you boys buy them. Not everyone's taset is everyone else's cup of tea.

I bought my Morgan instead of a Tuscan II Convertible because I preferred the dynamics - even though it is a considerably slower car (Tuscan S I was with on a recent run kept up with me easily, and in the straights, overtook and simply disappeared).

My lowly BMW V8 ounds better than the Speed Six though

[Harry Flashman]

JR said:

What sidewayz has also overlooked is the significant "repositioned the cams and finger followers"

Indeed - this is what has me interested, as it goes to the reliability issues inherent in the original Speed Six. Do any of the other rebuilders do this?

Edited by Harry Flashman on Wednesday 13th May 09:59

[VerySideways]

Harry Flashman said:

My lowly BMW V8 ounds better than the Speed Six though

Sometimes... not always: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0-nHCCWtVY