IOM TT 2018 Car Lap record run?

[Welshbeef]

meridian said:

Welshbeef said:

Why do people think engineers cannot develop a damper to cope with any surfaces?
Take WRC dampers and springs appear to cope with shocking potholes bumps and massive jumps with ease.

Agreed, of course the suspension technology is there. But it's not on the 'car in question', nor would that car lend itself to such suspension due to the required clearance/travel. I'm discussing the car in question, not cars generally

Even if the 919 Hybrid Evo went over the bridge in 1st gear at idle revs 1mph max speed it would still hit 160mph average speed

[RB Will]

It would probably all be resolved a lot sooner if the bikers would enter into sensible logical discussion rather than just shouting about bumps and kerbs and special IOM laws of physics.

Biker - "car wouldn't even get down the road because of all the bumps and huge jumps and would fall apart by the 3rd corner"

Normal human - " well that makes no sense, race cars like the LMP car or F1 car mentioned do 100s-1000s of miles at a time repeatedly smacking over kerbs and launching onto 2-3 wheels. Here is a video of a F1 car driving in the rain on the TT course, Its a really old F1 car and its in the rain and not had any practice but its not much slower than other things"

Biker - " but if a car tries to use the kerb he will break wheels off"

Normal human - " the Subaru was repeatedly using kerbs and grass on the inside of corners with no damage or instability, anyway I don't see the bikes using or coping well with kerbs"

Biker - " but the car can't straightline the thousands of s bends that are just bends enough to let the bikes straightline them "

Normal human - " these bends dont exist and even so the cars will still not have to slow as they will have better cornering and maybe downforce"

Biker - " but the car isnt set to certain regs or having to do pit stops or do 6 laps"

Normal human - " we are on about fast laps not full race distances"

Biker No2 - "the IOM is like nowhere else on earth, the bumps and jumps are insane!"

Normal human - " oh Christ not again "

[Exige77]

Even LMP cars are not the same for each track.

They are modified (within the rules) for characteristics of each track.

It would easy to have driver adjustable suspension ? Both ride height and bump & rebound. Hard / low fir fast bits and softer / higher when needed.

Evan the bikes on the TT are modified to suite that course.

[RobM77]

wormus said:

thegreenhell said:

It's a stupid argument. Why do some people think that F1 and LMP cars can't handle bumps? How many times every lap, for lap after lap, do these cars run over some quite severe serrated curbs and bumps without exploding into a million pieces at every corner?

But those aren’t the same sort of curbs are they and those cars are designed to work on a flat race track or they don’t have any down force and the advantage of being an F1 car is lost. God how many times do we need to have the same discussion?

The advantage of being an F1 car isn't just the downforce - they have an immense power to weight ratio and four enormous slicks. Even without the wings at a taller ride height they'd still be immensely fast cars. A Formula Ford with no downforce at all and 200bhp has lapped the Nürburgring in 7m22s. A Formula Renault, with very mild downforce and 210bhp, is several seconds a lap faster than a 240bhp Moto GP bike at all the circuits they visit. It's down to contact patch size and softness of the slick tyres, coupled with an immensely low CofG (the top of my car's engine is at knee height...) and a good track (width). It's not hard to imagine how fast an F1 would be with four times that power, even with a fraction of their downforce or perhaps no downforce at all.

As above, ride height is fully adjustable on any racing car and is routinely changed between circuits. Springs too, and geo. UK club racing requires amateurs like me to jack our cars right up and lose a load of downforce; you just need to run a different setup and you're good to go. Sure, it's not as good, but the performance lost isn't that huge - the main advantages of a single seater are still there.

Edited by RobM77 on Friday 21st September 16:18

[anonymous-user]

Car fan:
Our sport is really boring and the TT looks like fun and people like it, can we take part?

Biker:
No

Car fan:
But we can make st up and theorise about why cars are better and everyone who isn't us should prefer them.

Biker:
No, nobody cares

Car fan:
It's physics, and and....we've got more wheels!

Biker:
The TT started off over 100 years ago as a car event but after a couple of years, everyone lost interest and wandered off so they let bikes have a go. It's been a bike event ever since and people keep going because bikes are cool.

Car fan::
My diesel BMW is fast.

Biker:
No it isn't. Now fk off!

Car fan:
Lewis Hamilton?

This bit was right though:

RB Will said:

Normal human - " oh Christ not again "

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 21st September 16:17

[CO2000]

Is it june already

[Welshbeef]

The 919Evo is only a 2.0ltr v4 with a dual hybrid system yet makes 1,160bhp.

Imagine if it was a 3ltr dual hybrid....

[thegreenhell]

Welshbeef said:

The 919Evo is only a 2.0ltr v4 with a dual hybrid system yet makes 1,160bhp.

Imagine if it was a 3ltr dual hybrid....

Imagine if it was a 6ltr quad hybrid, or even a 12 litre octo hybrid. It could have a billion horsepower.

[otolith]

I'm just thinking about how Tai Chi practitioners must have felt about this;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-398533...

I think that's what bikers would feel like if a slicks and wings racing car were allowed to smash the IOM record. Rationally, it wouldn't prove anything or take anything away from the sport, it's a different code, but emotionally I reckon that would hurt.

[RobM77]

otolith said:

I'm just thinking about how Tai Chi practitioners must have felt about this;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-398533...

I think that's what bikers would feel like if a slicks and wings racing car were allowed to smash the IOM record. Rationally, it wouldn't prove anything or take anything away from the sport, it's a different code, but emotionally I reckon that would hurt.

Very true. This reminds me of the debate around the 919 Evo breaking all the lap records at different circuits, and the biggie was Bellof's 6min11s. Personally, the way I see it Bellof's 6min11s record isn't diminished by being broken, just like Bannister's 4min mile - both Bs are still legendary. If the 919 Evo demolished the TT lap record (which it would do, by a massive margin), that to me wouldn't touch the entirely different achievements that are the bike lap records.

[Welshbeef]

RobM77 said:

Very true. This reminds me of the debate around the 919 Evo breaking all the lap records at different circuits, and the biggie was Bellof's 6min11s. Personally, the way I see it Bellof's 6min11s record isn't diminished by being broken, just like Bannister's 4min mile - both Bs are still legendary. If the 919 Evo demolished the TT lap record (which it would do, by a massive margin), that to me wouldn't touch the entirely different achievements that are the bike lap records.

Exactly.


Personally I’ve driven a car between 150-180mph and my god did that focus the mind.
I wouldn’t even be able to imagine the bravery of doing the exact same straight line speed on two wheels.

TT racing is great and you can see on so many camera angles that they are going way beyond 10/10ths. Fantastic fun watching it.
But also so is for me seeing that Suburu do the fast lap fun and interesting.

I love the FOS Hill climb where anything goes to see 50 odd year old Cars being grisly competative is brilliant.



Anyway id wager a 160mph average speed fast lap would be the 919Hybrid Evos time

[BaronVonVaderham]

otolith said:

wormus said:

God how many times do we need to have the same discussion?

Until if and when someone does it. No other evidence that it is possible will be accepted.

Until the power rangers accept that four wheels is always faster than two.

[blade7]

I didn't even have any bait on my hook this time....

[RB Will]

Welshbeef said:

Anyway id wager a 160mph average speed fast lap would be the 919Hybrid Evos time

I know it’s not real life but a guy on a sim did a 172mph standing start lap in the 919

[Mr Tidy]

BaronVonVaderham said:

Until the power rangers accept that four wheels is always faster than two.

Well that isn't the case yet at the IOM - someone just needs to go and do it!

The Subaru couldn't!

[DoubleD]

A couple of laps in 1 car vs 100s of laps on 100s of types of bikes. I wonder which will be quicker?

[horsemeatscandal]

DoubleD said:

A couple of laps in 1 car vs 100s of laps on 100s of types of bikes. I wonder which will be quicker?

Bikes.

[Welshbeef]

Why are bikes even Moto GP bikes so much slower than the fastest machines on The Ribg?

[DoubleD]

horsemeatscandal said:

DoubleD said:

A couple of laps in 1 car vs 100s of laps on 100s of types of bikes. I wonder which will be quicker?

Bikes.

Exactly. Give 100s of types of cars over 100s of laps a go and then lets see what happens.

[coppice]

The thread that keeps on keeping on , and sounds more and more like a pub argument after one beer too many

Thing is that , in terms of fact rather than partisan opinion , cars go round race tracks. rally stages , hillclimbs and even drag strips a fair bit quicker than the faster cars . And round race tracks, we know that even a relatively tame F4 or F3 car goes faster than any bike .

I have no doubt that IoM bikers are extraordinarily skilled and chillingly brave (etc) and that their bikes are seriously fast but those facts don't trump the physics which apply everywhere else . I really can't see why IoM is such a quantum leap away from everywhere as o invalidate comparison .Shame that the bumpy and narrow Targa Florio was not used in period for bikes as the comparison might have been useful.