Ask a car salesman anything...anything at all.
Discussion
Wooda80 said:
undred orse said:
Another question - sorry.
If someone legitimately rejects a new car within the 30 day period and this is accepted by the manufacturer what is the approach to a replacement car? Specifically if the car in question was bought under a very limited stock and time additional promotion or allowance which is no longer available will the dealer be allowed to factory order which would take a few months a replacement on the same terms as the original deal or is the approach that the original contract ends with the rejection and any new order is just that subject to the terms at that time?
I can see this from both points of view in that the buyer just wants his car while the dealer is reliant on the manufacturer to allow an order on old terms. Additionally if the terms had improved no doubt the buyer would want to benefit but would not want to pay more if the offer was no longer available.
Thanks for any comments.
In my experience resolving new car rejections ( Jaguar ) was much easier and much more likely to result in acceptance than a request to reject a used car.If someone legitimately rejects a new car within the 30 day period and this is accepted by the manufacturer what is the approach to a replacement car? Specifically if the car in question was bought under a very limited stock and time additional promotion or allowance which is no longer available will the dealer be allowed to factory order which would take a few months a replacement on the same terms as the original deal or is the approach that the original contract ends with the rejection and any new order is just that subject to the terms at that time?
I can see this from both points of view in that the buyer just wants his car while the dealer is reliant on the manufacturer to allow an order on old terms. Additionally if the terms had improved no doubt the buyer would want to benefit but would not want to pay more if the offer was no longer available.
Thanks for any comments.
I don't work there any more ( since 2017 ) but the process went like this:
1) Customer selects their replacement car, the dealer calculates the consignment price from manufacturer
2) Dealer sets the trade in price for the rejected car ( yes, this can be a licence to print money from the dealer's point of view ).
3) Manufacturer approves trade in price and pays dealer the difference between 1) and 2) as a discretionary bonus.
4) Dealer raises invoice to customer for sale of new car and purchase of old car showing a nil balance
I've had occasions where the customer has chosen to add additional options to the replacement car and just paid the difference, another time we offered a customer a car that had been in stock for a while and manufacturer agreed to make an additional contribution towards the extra features it came with.
As the difference in cost [ 3) above ] is usually more than covered by the profit margin that the manufacturer has in the second car it's often a quick and cost effective way of making a problem customer go away.
jamei303 said:
I booked the test drive via the manufacturer's website, it was a one-hour appointment slot and we finished the drive at a train station so I could get a train to a meeting.
I thought it was pretty normal to do things by email these days?
If you liked the car and want to give the salesman the business, surely just pick up the phone?? I'm sure they will be able to figure out who did the test drive with you fairly easily. It's not directed at you specifically, but why do people come online to ask why someone hasn't gotten in touch when they can just pick the bloody phone up and find out directly as opposed to getting a load of supposition I thought it was pretty normal to do things by email these days?
BrabusMog said:
If you liked the car and want to give the salesman the business, surely just pick up the phone?? I'm sure they will be able to figure out who did the test drive with you fairly easily. It's not directed at you specifically, but why do people come online to ask why someone hasn't gotten in touch when they can just pick the bloody phone up and find out directly as opposed to getting a load of supposition
If I'm going to have to chase them all the time and they don't have their act together I'd rather just go elsewhere. But if it is common practice to give test drive customers a few days to think about it then that would be good to know, so I thought I'd ask here.
Phoning them would be a waste of my time, no doubt reception would say he was with a customer or something and would phone me back blah blah.
It's 2020 already and I have typed up spec list ready to send by email.
jamei303 said:
BrabusMog said:
If you liked the car and want to give the salesman the business, surely just pick up the phone?? I'm sure they will be able to figure out who did the test drive with you fairly easily. It's not directed at you specifically, but why do people come online to ask why someone hasn't gotten in touch when they can just pick the bloody phone up and find out directly as opposed to getting a load of supposition
If I'm going to have to chase them all the time and they don't have their act together I'd rather just go elsewhere. But if it is common practice to give test drive customers a few days to think about it then that would be good to know, so I thought I'd ask here.
Phoning them would be a waste of my time, no doubt reception would say he was with a customer or something and would phone me back blah blah.
It's 2020 already and I have typed up spec list ready to send by email.
jamei303 said:
If I'm going to have to chase them all the time and they don't have their act together I'd rather just go elsewhere.
But if it is common practice to give test drive customers a few days to think about it then that would be good to know, so I thought I'd ask here.
Phoning them would be a waste of my time, no doubt reception would say he was with a customer or something and would phone me back blah blah.
It's 2020 already and I have typed up spec list ready to send by email.
Send them the email then, if you booked online the first time they must have a "contact us" button on there or similar?But if it is common practice to give test drive customers a few days to think about it then that would be good to know, so I thought I'd ask here.
Phoning them would be a waste of my time, no doubt reception would say he was with a customer or something and would phone me back blah blah.
It's 2020 already and I have typed up spec list ready to send by email.
832ark said:
What happens to the problem car in these circumstances? Does it just go on the forecourt to become someone else’s nightmare or does it go back to the factory for re-work/investigation?
Good questionThere are numerous reasons why the original owner may have sought to reject the car
- the fault can't be replicated by the garage
- the fault can't be diagnosed
- lead time for parts required for repair is unacceptable
- car has developed numerous faults and the customer has "lost faith" even if all the complaints have been actioned.
We'd never re-sell a car with a known fault, especially since the cost of repair would be borne by warranty, but I have re-sold cars that have been rejected where no tangible fault has been found ( subjective issues regarding paint and trim for example, or an intermittent fault that cant be replicated ) and therefore no repair has been done and the second owner has been delighted with it and never reported a recurrence.
Manufacturers have teams of field engineers but they usually only monitor the dealer technician's processes and findings rather take on the repairs themselves. I'm not aware of any manufacturers, other than very low volume or high end ones, that have facilities to do routinely do repairs on cars that have been sold to customers - that's what dealership workshops are for.
BrabusMog said:
Haven't you wasted more time by simply typing all this out? I really don't get this type of attitude, if you really wanted it then surely you'd be on the phone trying to get it sorted. It reminds me of when I ask a few of the younger guys in my team why XYZ report isn't done yet, "oh well I emailed Joe Bloggs for some info last week but haven't heard back..." which is followed by a polite response from me of, "well, you're now late with your report, have you called them to find out what is holding up the info?" "Oh, errr, I marked it urgent but, uh, errr..." Sometimes a quick call is far quicker than a quick email (or pontificating online about wasted time).
Well, after HTP99 replied earlier I decided that it wasn't normal to keep customers waiting after a test drive, or if it was, it was indicative of a general incompetence. So based on that I emailed my spec to someone whose email address I had at a different dealership. He replied in less than 10 minutes with a quote which I immediately accepted and we will get everything sorted today.No doubt instead of posting here I could have phoned up the test-drive dealership, and I'd now be worrying about popping into town later in case I lost signal on my phone and missed them calling me back.
They've either lost my details, decided to do some delaying tactics for some reason, or just misinterpreted my desire to buy. :shrugs:
Edited by jamei303 on Thursday 23 January 13:41
CharlesdeGaulle said:
undred orse said:
... I really like their products but don't know if I can bring myself to hand over any more money to them after their treatment of an "innocent party".
I'm amazed you'd even consider it. If their treatment of you makes you angry and you're disappointed with their performance, why would you bother?undred orse said:
I know it does seem stupid,but in this case the dealer has not been to blame. It is the manufacturer saying sod you mate we don't care that you been left in an upsetting situation as one of our products failed and we are not prepared to put it right.Tough luck and sod off. The more I think about it the less likely I am to buy another one of any model.
The dealer may be fobbing you off. You bought from them, they are legally liable. Sounds like they've done what they needed to, but nothing more.jamei303 said:
BrabusMog said:
If you liked the car and want to give the salesman the business, surely just pick up the phone?? I'm sure they will be able to figure out who did the test drive with you fairly easily. It's not directed at you specifically, but why do people come online to ask why someone hasn't gotten in touch when they can just pick the bloody phone up and find out directly as opposed to getting a load of supposition
If I'm going to have to chase them all the time and they don't have their act together I'd rather just go elsewhere. But if it is common practice to give test drive customers a few days to think about it then that would be good to know, so I thought I'd ask here.
Phoning them would be a waste of my time, no doubt reception would say he was with a customer or something and would phone me back blah blah.
It's 2020 already and I have typed up spec list ready to send by email.
Sheepshanks said:
undred orse said:
I know it does seem stupid,but in this case the dealer has not been to blame. It is the manufacturer saying sod you mate we don't care that you been left in an upsetting situation as one of our products failed and we are not prepared to put it right.Tough luck and sod off. The more I think about it the less likely I am to buy another one of any model.
The dealer may be fobbing you off. You bought from them, they are legally liable. Sounds like they've done what they needed to, but nothing more.Something anyone rejecting needs to be aware of - you may not get a replacement leaving you without a car or your part exchange and effectively being told get lost your business means nothing to us.
One very unhappy and disappointed formerly loyal customer who in the last 3 years had spent over £210k with them.
Sheepshanks said:
It's been discussed on here a few times, but the retail motor industry just doesn't seem to do email much.
Obviously everyone would be guessing as to why the guy didn't contact you but perhaps he just made a judgement that you weren't seriously interested. Or there's some sales psychology going on where he wants you to chase him. Or....etc
I don't know how it works but would have expected that for test drives organised like that, the manufacturer would want qualification and feedback.
Funnily enough the last car I bought from a dealer (was a main dealer but for a niche marque) pretty much the entire transaction was done via whatsappObviously everyone would be guessing as to why the guy didn't contact you but perhaps he just made a judgement that you weren't seriously interested. Or there's some sales psychology going on where he wants you to chase him. Or....etc
I don't know how it works but would have expected that for test drives organised like that, the manufacturer would want qualification and feedback.
undred orse said:
Sheepshanks said:
undred orse said:
I know it does seem stupid,but in this case the dealer has not been to blame. It is the manufacturer saying sod you mate we don't care that you been left in an upsetting situation as one of our products failed and we are not prepared to put it right.Tough luck and sod off. The more I think about it the less likely I am to buy another one of any model.
The dealer may be fobbing you off. You bought from them, they are legally liable. Sounds like they've done what they needed to, but nothing more.Something anyone rejecting needs to be aware of - you may not get a replacement leaving you without a car or your part exchange and effectively being told get lost your business means nothing to us.
One very unhappy and disappointed formerly loyal customer who in the last 3 years had spent over £210k with them.
Some businesses (not saying all car dealers BTW!!) just simply don't respect their customers. One of my good friends runs a lettings agency and views the people who rent houses and flats with contempt. Was with him the other day when someone asked to view a property again, prior to moving in, so they could measure it up accurately to buy some new furniture and after he hung the call up he said something along the lines of "they're only f
king renting, why the fk do they care how the furniture looks in the place?!" I was fairly shocked lol.undred orse said:
You could well be right but the indications are otherwise. I just find it astonishing that a manufacturer will not stand by their product that has gone wrong and are using the rejection legislation to suit themselves and avoid supplying a direct replacement on the same terms just because in the meantime they have altered the discounts. They had absolutely no choice but to accept the rejection as they couldn't even identify the fault let alone fix it but follow that up with their "get lost" attitude adds insult to injury.
Something anyone rejecting needs to be aware of - you may not get a replacement leaving you without a car or your part exchange and effectively being told get lost your business means nothing to us.
One very unhappy and disappointed formerly loyal customer who in the last 3 years had spent over £210k with them.
I don't know if still does much, but WhatCar used to have a helpdesk feature - might be worth trying them if you wanted to shake things up, although I recall they seemed to get less successful over time (and it's some years since I looked at it).Something anyone rejecting needs to be aware of - you may not get a replacement leaving you without a car or your part exchange and effectively being told get lost your business means nothing to us.
One very unhappy and disappointed formerly loyal customer who in the last 3 years had spent over £210k with them.
Some newspaper have a consumer/financial help feature - that might be worth a try.
Customer Complaint said:
Dear Daily Telegraph
I recently bought some good s which turned out to be faulty. I returned them to the shop where I bought them and they offered me a full refund. I'm still not satisfied, what are my rights?
Does What Car-digan? have a help line as well?
Wooda80 said:
Customer Complaint said:
Dear Daily Telegraph
I recently bought some good s which turned out to be faulty. I returned them to the shop where I bought them and they offered me a full refund. I'm still not satisfied, what are my rights?
Does What Car-digan? have a help line as well?
Within a day of the newspaper contacting Volvo, they offered a full refund, £5K+ in compensation and £8K+ for a hire car for three months while the customer found another car. And that's with the customer saying they'd never have a Volvo again.
Edited by Sheepshanks on Friday 24th January 14:29
Wooda80 said:
Customer Complaint said:
Dear Daily Telegraph
I recently bought some good s which turned out to be faulty. I returned them to the shop where I bought them and they offered me a full refund. I'm still not satisfied, what are my rights?
Does What Car-digan? have a help line as well?
So obviously a comparable situation. Where do you part exchange your jumpers and spend tens of thousands on new ones? Perhaps you are better suited to Cardiganheads.
undred orse said:
Well thanks for the charmingly helpful response. More like they still have the exact same jumper but no won't exchange and expect you to pay a lot more for another one even though you can't have your old jumper back that you part exchanged.
So obviously a comparable situation. Where do you part exchange your jumpers and spend tens of thousands on new ones? Perhaps you are better suited to Cardiganheads.
I did outline in an earlier post how we dealt with these things when I worked for a Jaguar dealer. How it was the most cost effective way for the manufacturer to deal with the complaint and how the dealer often advocated the exchange as it was the source of a very competitively priced used car. So obviously a comparable situation. Where do you part exchange your jumpers and spend tens of thousands on new ones? Perhaps you are better suited to Cardiganheads.
That they didn't offer this alternative would suggest that either they don't see the current model as the exact same car, or maybe, just maybe, they are trying to tell you that they don't want your custom any more. Without knowing the full circumstances it's not my place to hazard a guess which it is.
Cars cost more money than jumpers it's true. And I only buy them in the minimum possible order quantity, and usually only when there's a deal or a sale on - that reflects the way that many people buy cars - but I do buy them more frequently than most people buy cars.
My old jumper is in the charity shop since you ask but I'd already decided that I didn't like it any more so I don't long to be reunited with it, even though I could if I so desired.
I like the manner in which Katie Telegraph reported that Volvo lady had deigned to accept the £14000 compo as she was far to busy and important to be bothered with taking it further.
No wonder they paid her not to buy another one!Wooda80 said:
undred orse said:
Well thanks for the charmingly helpful response. More like they still have the exact same jumper but no won't exchange and expect you to pay a lot more for another one even though you can't have your old jumper back that you part exchanged.
So obviously a comparable situation. Where do you part exchange your jumpers and spend tens of thousands on new ones? Perhaps you are better suited to Cardiganheads.
I did outline in an earlier post how we dealt with these things when I worked for a Jaguar dealer. How it was the most cost effective way for the manufacturer to deal with the complaint and how the dealer often advocated the exchange as it was the source of a very competitively priced used car. So obviously a comparable situation. Where do you part exchange your jumpers and spend tens of thousands on new ones? Perhaps you are better suited to Cardiganheads.
That they didn't offer this alternative would suggest that either they don't see the current model as the exact same car, or maybe, just maybe, they are trying to tell you that they don't want your custom any more. Without knowing the full circumstances it's not my place to hazard a guess which it is.
Cars cost more money than jumpers it's true. And I only buy them in the minimum possible order quantity, and usually only when there's a deal or a sale on - that reflects the way that many people buy cars - but I do buy them more frequently than most people buy cars.
My old jumper is in the charity shop since you ask but I'd already decided that I didn't like it any more so I don't long to be reunited with it, even though I could if I so desired.
I like the manner in which Katie Telegraph reported that Volvo lady had deigned to accept the £14000 compo as she was far to busy and important to be bothered with taking it further.
No wonder they paid her not to buy another one!I obviously haven't given the full details but honestly can't see how I've been difficult or unreasonable and when I did reject it was after they said they had no idea what the fault was after trying 3 different fixes and couldn't see that I had any alternative. The car was in limp mode. I've repeatedly said that I don't blame the dealer as they can't be expected to swallow a substantial loss on a replacement for me but I do find fault with the manufacturer who could have supplied me with an identical replacement if they chose to.
You may be right and they don't want my custom but I'm struggling to see why as I've not caused problems before and this was a clear cut rejection.
Anyway I'll move on eventually but thought I'd post the outcome of my earlier enquiry about discounts changing affecting replacements after rejection so that others could see that the rejection does not bring an automatic replacement. In my case the dealer has been left in a difficult position through no fault of their own and they should have had proper back up from the manufacturer as I expect many people would simply blame the dealer in these circumstances.
I agree with you about the Volvo compo. I've asked for nothing and been offered nothing. Can't see me getting £14 let alone £14k!
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