RE: Tesla Model X | PH Used Buying Guide
Discussion
carlo996 said:
Nomme de Plum said:
Many of us cannot receive any tax breaks associated with BIK.
The decision to go EV is that they can be a more pleasant environment in which to carry out a journey.
I’m sure 130K of Taycan is…apart from the usual charging problems on the move. It depends if you enjoy the process of driving, I know having to change gear and, heaven forbid, heal and toe are largely things that enthusiasts do, but I just find all EVs terminally boring. Just the thing for older drivers I guess, but given the costs of buying the ‘best’ out there (imho Taycan) they are still irrelevant. I3’s are horrible on a longer drive, choppy ride. Hybrids are a total joke. The decision to go EV is that they can be a more pleasant environment in which to carry out a journey.
As an owner of an i3, I will agree that the ride is choppy and due to their weight and profile, can be impacted by side winds. But the ride is OK given the size and length of the wheel base. But its clear that it was never designed for longer distances anyway, it had a use case and it fitted that one well. If you look to purchase an i3 for doing long distances, you probably need to look elsewhere.
Nomme de Plum said:
Crezza1 said:
Drove up from Kent to North Wales last week.and saw 2 breakdowns on the way up both of them Tesla's on the hard shoulder being put onto a low loader's.EV anxiety is going to be a frequent phrase in the future in the UK.
Unless you stopped to ascertain the reason for the breakdowns your post informs nothing. What about all of the other EV manufacturers. Perhaps their EVs are more reliable? Pure speculation of course.It isn't that unusual to see a stranded vehicle or two over that kind of distance.
Mr E said:
gangzoom said:
Compared to a 3 yes, but not anything similar sized from Audi/Merc etc. Life time average for ours is over 2.5 miles per kWh including winter. On summer road trips in Europe at 70mph with air con on, efficiency is about 3 mile per kWh.
About what I’ve been seeing. I’m sitting at 340-350Wh/mile. That’s a sub 200 mile range from full and realistically 150 miles from 80%My Y does a lot better than that.
Its just the basic RWD
201 mile round trip to Wales, 177 Wh/mi
So with her 60 kWh battery, theoretical range is 60,000 / 177 = 338 miles.
We weren't going fast, as quite a bit of holiday traffic over Easter.
Charging only at home, for overnight 10 pence per unit, so full battery costs about £6.00
Her used 36 kWh on the round trip, costing £3.60 (36 kwh x 10 pence)
To the next level, £3.60 for 201 miles is just 1,79 pence per mile.
Edited by Register1 on Tuesday 11th April 20:54
carlo996 said:
I’m sure 130K of Taycan is…apart from the usual charging problems on the move. It depends if you enjoy the process of driving, I know having to change gear and, heaven forbid, heal and toe are largely things that enthusiasts do, but I just find all EVs terminally boring. Just the thing for older drivers I guess, but given the costs of buying the ‘best’ out there (imho Taycan) they are still irrelevant. I3’s are horrible on a longer drive, choppy ride. Hybrids are a total joke.
There isn’t a replacement for my Elise there. There is a replacement for my (automatic) 335D.off_again said:
The i3 is a great car. Its good to drive, has plenty of interior space and is well packaged. Considering its age, its surprisingly well equipped and functional, and the drive system is surprisingly good. However, it doesnt appeal to all. That said though, it goes to show that not all EV's need to be blobs on wheels that drive like a jelly. They are surprisingly good to drive!
Stick it next to a cheap, used X and you have a pretty fair two car EV solution. The X and the i3 next to each other start to highlight how things will likely evolve for those of us who enjoy driving.
There will be the big family tank of a wagon on one side of the drive and the smaller, more nimble runabout hatch.
The family tank can just be filled with cost effective batteries and be used for the family outings, longer drives and for balancing one's domestic energy pricing when sitting plugged in to the house. It becomes a Jack of all trades workhorse that has a value and use even when stationary on the drive for most of the day.
Meanwhile, the smaller EV can make use of the latest battery tech to be as light as possible. It doesn't need to be burdened with a big, cheap battery pack so can indulge in being more quirky. The i3 shows that an EV hatch can be a fun steer and battery tech is progressing steadily which will bring more fun but their cost will mean the smaller car is favoured, which is good for us in the U.K. as we love hot hatches.
mrclav said:
Russ T Bolt said:
mrclav said:
one thing that BEVs are FAR better at controlling than any ICE car is traction, particularly in slippery conditions:-
The electric Kona certainly isn’t. Edited by mrclav on Tuesday 11th April 10:08
I had one on a short lease a couple of years ago, when it got to November and greasy/wet roads it wheel span like buggery. Was much worse than an Astra I had at the time despite similar power output/size/ fwd etc.
One of our contractors has one of these, the big bhp one, had it from new, 80k miles and not a single issue with it, last service he has he was talking to a taxi driver who had an early Model S, he was having the battery changed at 500k miles, FOC from Tesla as a precaution apparently, again other than some recalls and consumables the car had been spot on.
People are eager to report faults in cars, and anything nowadays, what we dont tend to hear are all the happy customers with no issues at all.
People are eager to report faults in cars, and anything nowadays, what we dont tend to hear are all the happy customers with no issues at all.
DonkeyApple said:
off_again said:
The i3 is a great car. Its good to drive, has plenty of interior space and is well packaged. Considering its age, its surprisingly well equipped and functional, and the drive system is surprisingly good. However, it doesnt appeal to all. That said though, it goes to show that not all EV's need to be blobs on wheels that drive like a jelly. They are surprisingly good to drive!
Stick it next to a cheap, used X and you have a pretty fair two car EV solution. The X and the i3 next to each other start to highlight how things will likely evolve for those of us who enjoy driving.
There will be the big family tank of a wagon on one side of the drive and the smaller, more nimble runabout hatch.
The family tank can just be filled with cost effective batteries and be used for the family outings, longer drives and for balancing one's domestic energy pricing when sitting plugged in to the house. It becomes a Jack of all trades workhorse that has a value and use even when stationary on the drive for most of the day.
Meanwhile, the smaller EV can make use of the latest battery tech to be as light as possible. It doesn't need to be burdened with a big, cheap battery pack so can indulge in being more quirky. The i3 shows that an EV hatch can be a fun steer and battery tech is progressing steadily which will bring more fun but their cost will mean the smaller car is favoured, which is good for us in the U.K. as we love hot hatches.
Current fleet is i3s and Cayenne V8 Diesel. The Model X (or Y) is an obvious replacement for the Cayenne when the time comes, but that day is getting further away as the i3s is the choice for a much higher % of journeys than we ever expected. It's utterly brilliant.
Russ T Bolt said:
mrclav said:
Russ T Bolt said:
mrclav said:
one thing that BEVs are FAR better at controlling than any ICE car is traction, particularly in slippery conditions:-
The electric Kona certainly isn’t. Edited by mrclav on Tuesday 11th April 10:08
I had one on a short lease a couple of years ago, when it got to November and greasy/wet roads it wheel span like buggery. Was much worse than an Astra I had at the time despite similar power output/size/ fwd etc.
biggbn said:
Russ T Bolt said:
mrclav said:
Russ T Bolt said:
mrclav said:
one thing that BEVs are FAR better at controlling than any ICE car is traction, particularly in slippery conditions:-
The electric Kona certainly isn’t. Edited by mrclav on Tuesday 11th April 10:08
I had one on a short lease a couple of years ago, when it got to November and greasy/wet roads it wheel span like buggery. Was much worse than an Astra I had at the time despite similar power output/size/ fwd etc.
rewild said:
We think the same way.
Current fleet is i3s and Cayenne V8 Diesel. The Model X (or Y) is an obvious replacement for the Cayenne when the time comes, but that day is getting further away as the i3s is the choice for a much higher % of journeys than we ever expected. It's utterly brilliant.
I'd pick up an i3 now but as it would primarily be my wife's car there is an issue. She has an Italian passport which means she is culturally obliged to drive her car repeatedly and regularly into the house, into the local stone walls, hunt out every tyre popping pothole and take off-roading at pace for no clearly visible purpose. A 1 Series is ideal for that but I think it would be inappropriate for a carbon fibre i3 on narrow tyres. Current fleet is i3s and Cayenne V8 Diesel. The Model X (or Y) is an obvious replacement for the Cayenne when the time comes, but that day is getting further away as the i3s is the choice for a much higher % of journeys than we ever expected. It's utterly brilliant.
About a month ago, my family S4 Avant TDI was changed for an Enyaq.
I know I'm comparing to an (admittedly pokey) medium sized diesel estate car to what is essentially an MPV, but dare I say it, I actually prefer the EV as a driver's car.
Instant throttle response. RWD. Immense traction. Ridiculously smooth ride (even on 21s). Managing the regen manually through the steering wheel paddles means that most braking/slowing situations can be managed smoothly and without even touching the brakes.
Perhaps the best thing though is that passengers don't seem to notice when you get your foot down. The lack of noise makes it feel so much more civilised.
In my experience, I have a real world range of about 280-290 miles, which is plenty enough for me.
I know I'm comparing to an (admittedly pokey) medium sized diesel estate car to what is essentially an MPV, but dare I say it, I actually prefer the EV as a driver's car.
Instant throttle response. RWD. Immense traction. Ridiculously smooth ride (even on 21s). Managing the regen manually through the steering wheel paddles means that most braking/slowing situations can be managed smoothly and without even touching the brakes.
Perhaps the best thing though is that passengers don't seem to notice when you get your foot down. The lack of noise makes it feel so much more civilised.
In my experience, I have a real world range of about 280-290 miles, which is plenty enough for me.
Russ T Bolt said:
mrclav said:
Russ T Bolt said:
mrclav said:
one thing that BEVs are FAR better at controlling than any ICE car is traction, particularly in slippery conditions:-
The electric Kona certainly isn’t. Edited by mrclav on Tuesday 11th April 10:08
I had one on a short lease a couple of years ago, when it got to November and greasy/wet roads it wheel span like buggery. Was much worse than an Astra I had at the time despite similar power output/size/ fwd etc.
As they say on here, I am going to call custard on your claim.
Electricity is never "free": An annoying phrase our government use ad hoc. And these hideous yankmobiles are wasting it. Horrid crap.
And anyone saying an electric vehicle is noiseless is deaf. I've worked a lifetime with noise and vibration, I'm half deaf, and I still can hear an electric motor 200m away.
So a V6 audi(ish) biturbo and electric vw(ish) owner, and I'll argue about the benefits of both
And anyone saying an electric vehicle is noiseless is deaf. I've worked a lifetime with noise and vibration, I'm half deaf, and I still can hear an electric motor 200m away.
So a V6 audi(ish) biturbo and electric vw(ish) owner, and I'll argue about the benefits of both
Edited by smithers-jones on Thursday 13th April 19:52
Edited by smithers-jones on Thursday 13th April 19:53
Edited by smithers-jones on Thursday 13th April 19:56
James6112 said:
smithers-jones said:
Electricity is never "free": An annoying phrase our government use ad hoc. And these hideous yankmobiles are wasting it. Horrid crap.
Have you been hacked ? 
andy43 said:
Check out miles per kwh of Tesla motors vs other 'crap'. Our Honda E is barely better than the Model S we had. An Audi etron is about as efficient as Huggy Bear's Lincoln Continental.
It does depend on how you consider 'efficiency' though. Centralising fossil fuel combustion away from millions of local units to large, single points that can be steadily cleaned as exhaust scrubbing technology improves is the efficiency we are seeking as opposed to individual MPGs/MPKwh etcThen you have the efficiencies of the potential greater lifespan of a more simple EV over an ICE and the ability to recycle the energy storage system endlessly.
For the goals that we wish to achieve, EVs as a group are the more efficient solution.
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