Tuner fined for pop and bang map & decat fitting
Discussion
Hoofy said:
Oh I see. But only when they lift off? I'm not looking at getting the idiot remap btw.
My Porsche does this when decelerating from 3000rpm but it's more a distant rumble of thunder because I have a standard exhaust. My old TVR Chimaera used to do it, too, and was quite loud with its straight-through exhaust (cat in place).
On lift off, during throttle on power you need normal ignition to produce torque.My Porsche does this when decelerating from 3000rpm but it's more a distant rumble of thunder because I have a standard exhaust. My old TVR Chimaera used to do it, too, and was quite loud with its straight-through exhaust (cat in place).
Older engines dont have overrun fuel cut off, so you get some unburnt fuel passing through the cylinder which is ignited when it hits the high temperature exhaust and turbo, as seen in your racing video.
To get proper anti lag, rather than just crappy pops and bangs, you need to introduce a lot of air whilst off throttle, this can be done via extra air valves or on modern drive by wire throttle bodies cranking that open. It's quite aggressive on the exhaust valve and seat and the turbo to use proper ALS.
BrettMRC said:
Hoofy said:
I was watching this video last night https://youtu.be/XnLEtHxBako?si=LRj0R_xekPd9ZeP_&a... and the curious thing is that you're getting flames but no pops and bangs.
My old Rx7 used to be like that, mainly due to the unburnt fuel - again it was totally silent.520TORQUES said:
Hoofy said:
Oh I see. But only when they lift off? I'm not looking at getting the idiot remap btw.
My Porsche does this when decelerating from 3000rpm but it's more a distant rumble of thunder because I have a standard exhaust. My old TVR Chimaera used to do it, too, and was quite loud with its straight-through exhaust (cat in place).
On lift off, during throttle on power you need normal ignition to produce torque.My Porsche does this when decelerating from 3000rpm but it's more a distant rumble of thunder because I have a standard exhaust. My old TVR Chimaera used to do it, too, and was quite loud with its straight-through exhaust (cat in place).
Older engines dont have overrun fuel cut off, so you get some unburnt fuel passing through the cylinder which is ignited when it hits the high temperature exhaust and turbo, as seen in your racing video.
To get proper anti lag, rather than just crappy pops and bangs, you need to introduce a lot of air whilst off throttle, this can be done via extra air valves or on modern drive by wire throttle bodies cranking that open. It's quite aggressive on the exhaust valve and seat and the turbo to use proper ALS.
Hoofy said:
I heard they weren't good for longevity.
With proper ALS you also lose the servo assist on the brakes as that uses the inlet vacuum to create the assistance. You'll have EGT's in the +900 degrees C range in the turbo, so need inconel waste gates and high grade turbines and housings to survive that.
Caddyshack said:
Great news to get stupid loud exhausts and pop n bang off the roads but I fear it could be one step towards a TUV type situation where we cannot change anything.
I imagine this thread will find an echo chamber of agreement that no mods should be allowed but on a motorist enthusiasts forum it is surely a wider issue that risks us not being allowed to run other mods.
I thought TUV meant lost of tuning is actually approved hence Barbus AMG and Alpina exist etcI imagine this thread will find an echo chamber of agreement that no mods should be allowed but on a motorist enthusiasts forum it is surely a wider issue that risks us not being allowed to run other mods.
Gecko1978 said:
I thought TUV meant lost of tuning is actually approved hence Barbus AMG and Alpina exist etc
It's a paperwork and technical aproval process that adds costs, which favours the bigger companies at the expense of the small independent who are crowded out. That kind of mentality permeates through the EU legal texts and is why large lobby companies earn so much money.
UK has traditionally been more SME focused in its
approach, but that is changing too.
Just seen this video from McGurk (AM specialists), who did a video just prior to Christmas on primary cat delete and risks on the AM V12 6 litre.
The DVSA contacted them discussing the legalities of it (without prompt), and also revealing they have prosecuted ANOTHER company in January!
https://fb.watch/pxfPhwZHH7/
The DVSA contacted them discussing the legalities of it (without prompt), and also revealing they have prosecuted ANOTHER company in January!
https://fb.watch/pxfPhwZHH7/
Ninja59 said:
Just seen this video from McGurk (AM specialists), who did a video just prior to Christmas on primary cat delete and risks on the AM V12 6 litre.
The DVSA contacted them discussing the legalities of it (without prompt), and also revealing they have prosecuted ANOTHER company in January!
https://fb.watch/pxfPhwZHH7/
I watched their video showing and recommending the delete with a raised eyebrow, I didn’t think this would happen, but did think it a bit unwise to advertise it.The DVSA contacted them discussing the legalities of it (without prompt), and also revealing they have prosecuted ANOTHER company in January!
https://fb.watch/pxfPhwZHH7/
B'stard Child said:
I agree with all of that. I spectated all through the turbo F1 period, and Group B rally, and I was at Le Mans all through the Group C period, I loved the flame and glowing turbos (and brakes), I don't recall the popping and banging like today's fake garbage for the insecure. heebeegeetee said:
B'stard Child said:
I agree with all of that. I spectated all through the turbo F1 period, and Group B rally, and I was at Le Mans all through the Group C period, I loved the flame and glowing turbos (and brakes), I don't recall the popping and banging like today's fake garbage for the insecure. Loudish, nice exhaust tone - fine.
Popping and banging because you just have to be the centre of attention should be up there with drink driving IMO.
My Supra has stupid pops and farts built in from the factory, when it was remapped recently I insisted they were removed - utter nonsense and not required.
BrettMRC said:
heebeegeetee said:
B'stard Child said:
I agree with all of that. I spectated all through the turbo F1 period, and Group B rally, and I was at Le Mans all through the Group C period, I loved the flame and glowing turbos (and brakes), I don't recall the popping and banging like today's fake garbage for the insecure. Loudish, nice exhaust tone - fine.
Popping and banging because you just have to be the centre of attention should be up there with drink driving IMO.
My Supra has stupid pops and farts built in from the factory, when it was remapped recently I insisted they were removed - utter nonsense and not required.
heebeegeetee said:
B'stard Child said:
I agree with all of that. I spectated all through the turbo F1 period, and Group B rally, and I was at Le Mans all through the Group C period, I loved the flame and glowing turbos (and brakes), I don't recall the popping and banging like today's fake garbage for the insecure. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/TacYMnHJmqA
Group B rally is where the craze for pops and bangs (anti lag) came from!!
Hoofy said:
BrettMRC said:
heebeegeetee said:
B'stard Child said:
I agree with all of that. I spectated all through the turbo F1 period, and Group B rally, and I was at Le Mans all through the Group C period, I loved the flame and glowing turbos (and brakes), I don't recall the popping and banging like today's fake garbage for the insecure. Loudish, nice exhaust tone - fine.
Popping and banging because you just have to be the centre of attention should be up there with drink driving IMO.
My Supra has stupid pops and farts built in from the factory, when it was remapped recently I insisted they were removed - utter nonsense and not required.
After:
RDMcG said:
I have a few reasonably good cars and it would never occur to me to do this kind of mod. No performance benefit - just a loud noise. I don’t walk down the street playing a trumpet either.
Good point. The pop and bang fakery has actually put me off any sort of loud car even if it's a more genuine noise. Now I like something more mellow and classy, even on a supercar.I wouldn't be surprised if we get legislation at some point and as usual it will be because of those that take it to the extreme rather than because of those that just have a mainstream, loudish sporty car. And like most laws, the sad thing will be that the latter group will comply and the people that caused the problem wont.
BrettMRC said:
Before:
After:
Ah, that's better. It was a bit idiotic before, wasn't it! I can see that you still get the occasional one which makes more sense. My 911 Turbo does do it occasionally too (like your Afters) and it's not loud - more like distant thunder because it has the OEM cats and silencer in place, sometimes if I'm coming up to traffic lights from 3500rpm it'll do it for a few seconds like rolling thunder, which is quite a cool effect (ie NOT like urban gun battles in a South American city).After:
PS The videography on those videos is good!
BrettMRC said:
Same thoughts here.
Loudish, nice exhaust tone - fine.
Popping and banging because you just have to be the centre of attention should be up there with drink driving IMO.
My Supra has stupid pops and farts built in from the factory, when it was remapped recently I insisted they were removed - utter nonsense and not required.
That bit in bold covers my own thoughts on the pointless noise subject.Loudish, nice exhaust tone - fine.
Popping and banging because you just have to be the centre of attention should be up there with drink driving IMO.
My Supra has stupid pops and farts built in from the factory, when it was remapped recently I insisted they were removed - utter nonsense and not required.
I’m fine with remapping for power or economy though. Just not pointless centre of attention s
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