Oh No Not Another Cyclist Rant
Discussion
tdog7 said:
However, despite being technically right, the cyclist is not helping him/herself. I commute via motorcycle and am fully aware that if there is a queue of cars turning off the main road I am on, into a side road, and I overtake on their right side, there is a good chance that anyone pulling out of the side road may not see me, so I overtake slowly, and with caution.
I'd agree. It is no good simply being "right". Frankly it sounds like a particularly dangerous junction for all concerned.The abuse etc isn't helpful or acceptable though.
oyster said:
OP I'm going to guess that you were pulling out of Kingswood Drive onto College Road? I used to live near there and commuted by cycle down that hill every single day for 5 years.
If we are talking about the same road then:
1. 90%+ of the cars turn left into the road your were turning right from as straight ahead only goes to the Dulwich College tollgate.
2. The cars turning left have to do so into quite a tight turning and hence often swing out to the right in order to smooth out the turn.
3. There are speed bumps in the road that the cyclist would have to avoid - they could pass to the left of them but that would be suicidal as it would put them into the side of the cars turning left.
4. It's a steep hill, on a hybrid bike I would easily hit 30mph passing the junction you were pulling out of.
5. As a result of the reduced visibility I would anticipate if cars were going to pull out and act accordingly. I also often stood up on the bike to make my helmet light visible above cars.
6. I used to have a near collision at that junction perhaps every 2 weeks - every single time, both myself and car driver had taken avoiding action and each and every single time the driver had apologised for pulling out on me.
7. A cyclist or motorcyclist comes down that hill probably every 20 seconds or so in rush hour. If you've used that road before then you should have anticipated that cyclists and motorcyclists may be passing and again drive accordingly.
To summarise, you need to be more aware of your surroundings. Cyclists are in some danger at that junction, but only because drivers (like you) ignored their right of way.
Oyster - you are spot on.If we are talking about the same road then:
1. 90%+ of the cars turn left into the road your were turning right from as straight ahead only goes to the Dulwich College tollgate.
2. The cars turning left have to do so into quite a tight turning and hence often swing out to the right in order to smooth out the turn.
3. There are speed bumps in the road that the cyclist would have to avoid - they could pass to the left of them but that would be suicidal as it would put them into the side of the cars turning left.
4. It's a steep hill, on a hybrid bike I would easily hit 30mph passing the junction you were pulling out of.
5. As a result of the reduced visibility I would anticipate if cars were going to pull out and act accordingly. I also often stood up on the bike to make my helmet light visible above cars.
6. I used to have a near collision at that junction perhaps every 2 weeks - every single time, both myself and car driver had taken avoiding action and each and every single time the driver had apologised for pulling out on me.
7. A cyclist or motorcyclist comes down that hill probably every 20 seconds or so in rush hour. If you've used that road before then you should have anticipated that cyclists and motorcyclists may be passing and again drive accordingly.
To summarise, you need to be more aware of your surroundings. Cyclists are in some danger at that junction, but only because drivers (like you) ignored their right of way.
It is indeed that junction. And it's a junction I've used most weekday mornings for several months now.
Thanks for the cyclist's POV coming down that hill. It's not a hill I've cycled down myself.
Hindsight is 20/20. I need more caution at that junction.
Consider the thread re-titled 'A Lesson Learned'.
Timbola said:
oyster said:
OP I'm going to guess that you were pulling out of Kingswood Drive onto College Road? I used to live near there and commuted by cycle down that hill every single day for 5 years.
If we are talking about the same road then:
1. 90%+ of the cars turn left into the road your were turning right from as straight ahead only goes to the Dulwich College tollgate.
2. The cars turning left have to do so into quite a tight turning and hence often swing out to the right in order to smooth out the turn.
3. There are speed bumps in the road that the cyclist would have to avoid - they could pass to the left of them but that would be suicidal as it would put them into the side of the cars turning left.
4. It's a steep hill, on a hybrid bike I would easily hit 30mph passing the junction you were pulling out of.
5. As a result of the reduced visibility I would anticipate if cars were going to pull out and act accordingly. I also often stood up on the bike to make my helmet light visible above cars.
6. I used to have a near collision at that junction perhaps every 2 weeks - every single time, both myself and car driver had taken avoiding action and each and every single time the driver had apologised for pulling out on me.
7. A cyclist or motorcyclist comes down that hill probably every 20 seconds or so in rush hour. If you've used that road before then you should have anticipated that cyclists and motorcyclists may be passing and again drive accordingly.
To summarise, you need to be more aware of your surroundings. Cyclists are in some danger at that junction, but only because drivers (like you) ignored their right of way.
Oyster - you are spot on.If we are talking about the same road then:
1. 90%+ of the cars turn left into the road your were turning right from as straight ahead only goes to the Dulwich College tollgate.
2. The cars turning left have to do so into quite a tight turning and hence often swing out to the right in order to smooth out the turn.
3. There are speed bumps in the road that the cyclist would have to avoid - they could pass to the left of them but that would be suicidal as it would put them into the side of the cars turning left.
4. It's a steep hill, on a hybrid bike I would easily hit 30mph passing the junction you were pulling out of.
5. As a result of the reduced visibility I would anticipate if cars were going to pull out and act accordingly. I also often stood up on the bike to make my helmet light visible above cars.
6. I used to have a near collision at that junction perhaps every 2 weeks - every single time, both myself and car driver had taken avoiding action and each and every single time the driver had apologised for pulling out on me.
7. A cyclist or motorcyclist comes down that hill probably every 20 seconds or so in rush hour. If you've used that road before then you should have anticipated that cyclists and motorcyclists may be passing and again drive accordingly.
To summarise, you need to be more aware of your surroundings. Cyclists are in some danger at that junction, but only because drivers (like you) ignored their right of way.
It is indeed that junction. And it's a junction I've used most weekday mornings for several months now.
Thanks for the cyclist's POV coming down that hill. It's not a hill I've cycled down myself.
Hindsight is 20/20. I need more caution at that junction.
Consider the thread re-titled 'A Lesson Learned'.
:thud:A PH first
will_ said:
tdog7 said:
However, despite being technically right, the cyclist is not helping him/herself. I commute via motorcycle and am fully aware that if there is a queue of cars turning off the main road I am on, into a side road, and I overtake on their right side, there is a good chance that anyone pulling out of the side road may not see me, so I overtake slowly, and with caution.
I'd agree. It is no good simply being "right". Frankly it sounds like a particularly dangerous junction for all concerned.The abuse etc isn't helpful or acceptable though.
What makes it dangerous is drivers who assume that because 90% of cars turn left into the side road, then ALL vehicles must be doing likewise.
Timbola said:
oyster said:
OP I'm going to guess that you were pulling out of Kingswood Drive onto College Road? I used to live near there and commuted by cycle down that hill every single day for 5 years.
If we are talking about the same road then:
1. 90%+ of the cars turn left into the road your were turning right from as straight ahead only goes to the Dulwich College tollgate.
2. The cars turning left have to do so into quite a tight turning and hence often swing out to the right in order to smooth out the turn.
3. There are speed bumps in the road that the cyclist would have to avoid - they could pass to the left of them but that would be suicidal as it would put them into the side of the cars turning left.
4. It's a steep hill, on a hybrid bike I would easily hit 30mph passing the junction you were pulling out of.
5. As a result of the reduced visibility I would anticipate if cars were going to pull out and act accordingly. I also often stood up on the bike to make my helmet light visible above cars.
6. I used to have a near collision at that junction perhaps every 2 weeks - every single time, both myself and car driver had taken avoiding action and each and every single time the driver had apologised for pulling out on me.
7. A cyclist or motorcyclist comes down that hill probably every 20 seconds or so in rush hour. If you've used that road before then you should have anticipated that cyclists and motorcyclists may be passing and again drive accordingly.
To summarise, you need to be more aware of your surroundings. Cyclists are in some danger at that junction, but only because drivers (like you) ignored their right of way.
Oyster - you are spot on.If we are talking about the same road then:
1. 90%+ of the cars turn left into the road your were turning right from as straight ahead only goes to the Dulwich College tollgate.
2. The cars turning left have to do so into quite a tight turning and hence often swing out to the right in order to smooth out the turn.
3. There are speed bumps in the road that the cyclist would have to avoid - they could pass to the left of them but that would be suicidal as it would put them into the side of the cars turning left.
4. It's a steep hill, on a hybrid bike I would easily hit 30mph passing the junction you were pulling out of.
5. As a result of the reduced visibility I would anticipate if cars were going to pull out and act accordingly. I also often stood up on the bike to make my helmet light visible above cars.
6. I used to have a near collision at that junction perhaps every 2 weeks - every single time, both myself and car driver had taken avoiding action and each and every single time the driver had apologised for pulling out on me.
7. A cyclist or motorcyclist comes down that hill probably every 20 seconds or so in rush hour. If you've used that road before then you should have anticipated that cyclists and motorcyclists may be passing and again drive accordingly.
To summarise, you need to be more aware of your surroundings. Cyclists are in some danger at that junction, but only because drivers (like you) ignored their right of way.
It is indeed that junction. And it's a junction I've used most weekday mornings for several months now.
Thanks for the cyclist's POV coming down that hill. It's not a hill I've cycled down myself.
Hindsight is 20/20. I need more caution at that junction.
Consider the thread re-titled 'A Lesson Learned'.
To answer some other points on this thread, the speed differential between cars turning left and cyclists going straight on is usually large (10mph car, 30mph bike). As a result I would take caution to see ahead whether drivers like the OP were just chancing it. Also I would never pass that junction 'flat out' if there were cars obscuring the view.
OPKermit power said:
Rule number 1 of cycle commuting through London (or anywhere really) is don't get yourself to the left of a large vehicle turning left, but "don't ride significantly faster than the traffic around you" is certainly up there as well.
100% agreed, and would save a lot of potential accidents.However, on a broader note, the rule should be more like "Make yourself as visible as possible. If someone can see you, they are less likely to hit you (although it's still possible)".
hadenough! said:
fangio said:
Not one of you would-be magistrates has mentioned 'Do not overtake at a road junction', or is that another rule that cycling morons are exempt from? 
Well done for bringing an element of idiocy to an otherwise sensible thread.To the OP - you were wrong - just because it looked clear doesn't mean it was - but I think you have accepted that.
To the cyclist - I hope you will think twice about going full tilt past that junction in future - its obviously a dodgy one. All it takes is for the person at the front of the queue of cars to flash the OP (actually, someone with less awareness than the OP) out and you will be over their bonnet - classic SMIDSY. Doesn't matter if you are in the right if you end up on the deck.
This is a bizarrely reasonable thread. Is it because all the angry PHers are in the Woolwich thread today?
More or less the same thing happened to me about a year ago, except I pulled out across a line of rolling traffic when a large camper van stopped and flashed me out, only to find six motorcyclists overtaking the line of traffic, that had been entirely hidden from my view by the traffic.
Sadly, despite stopping dead, one of the motorcyclists just clipped my front end and came off. Thankfully not very fast.
On that occasion, the person who flashed me out, me, the motorcyclists and the policeman that turned up agreed that it was "just one of those things". I shouldn't have pulled out without knowing it was clear, the camper shouldn't have flashed me out with motorbikes approaching from behind, and the bikers shouldn't have overtaken a line of traffic past a junction.
The insurance companies, of corse, are still arguing about it now.
In my case, and in the OP's case, if everyone involved have been 5% more careful it would have been better for all. No one wants to collide with anyone.
More or less the same thing happened to me about a year ago, except I pulled out across a line of rolling traffic when a large camper van stopped and flashed me out, only to find six motorcyclists overtaking the line of traffic, that had been entirely hidden from my view by the traffic.
Sadly, despite stopping dead, one of the motorcyclists just clipped my front end and came off. Thankfully not very fast.
On that occasion, the person who flashed me out, me, the motorcyclists and the policeman that turned up agreed that it was "just one of those things". I shouldn't have pulled out without knowing it was clear, the camper shouldn't have flashed me out with motorbikes approaching from behind, and the bikers shouldn't have overtaken a line of traffic past a junction.
The insurance companies, of corse, are still arguing about it now.
In my case, and in the OP's case, if everyone involved have been 5% more careful it would have been better for all. No one wants to collide with anyone.
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