RE: Alpenglow concept returns as hydrogen-powered Hy4

[dvs_dave]

Geoffcapes said:

In fact the exact opposite is happening. Look at relative newcomers to the electrolyser space, Plug, their prices are coming down all the time.
Also Siemens, how are generally accepted as brand leaders, are manufacturing electrolyses at much more affordable (investment wise) prices.

As a cost, the expensive part of a Green H2 project is the Green power (ie PV or wind) which is generally twice the cost of the H2 generation bit. .

They’re not for Green H2 supply for transportation. They’re primarily for the decarbonisation of H2 production as feedstock for the huge number of industrial processes that require it. Green H2 makes *a ton* of sense here over very polluting, yet pervasive brown hydrogen production.

[TGCOTF-dewey]

_ppan said:

TGCOTF-dewey said:

You could also build H2 plants close to big solar or wind farms to make use of over-supply.

That sounds like a reasonable idea. Problem though, there aren't many hours where green energy is in surpluss. Consider the following: if a factory runs 1 hour a day it will need 24 times the capacity of a factory that runs 24 hours a day. The other 23 hours that huge factory will be not running. Financially that's a ruinous proposition, apart from logistical stuff like finding personel that has no idea when and how much they can work. Apart from wether the surpluss is enough to produce the h2 we would need.

Obviously it's based on the assumption that there is sufficient over-supply and appropriate flexible H2 plant design.

It follows similar Nuc concepts being touted currently - non (or very very few) staffed and off site centralised control rooms for multiple units.

The most likely would be Nuc supplying the power or process heat but we don't even have the designs yet.

There's a lot of ambition vs >>>>>>>> reality in that space at the moment.

It falls down at the vehicle end anyway.

[pheonix478]

TGCOTF-dewey said:

The practical aspects of running a car on hydrogen I agree rule it out almost from the start... But H2 production doesn't need to be high carbon emitting.

There's a UK competition running at the moment to take an HTGR reactor to deployment. These give you very high quality process heat which is perfect for H2 production.

You could also build H2 plants close to big solar or wind farms to make use of over-supply.

Of course, no one wants an H2 in the countryside and HTGR designs are long way off practical deployment.

By which time battery tech and associated infrastructure will have improved.

Obviously you can make green hydrogen. But not at anything approaching any semblance of a useful scale and even if you could private passenger car use would be back of the queue for it.

[GT9]

_ppan said:

That sounds like a reasonable idea. Problem though, there aren't many hours where green energy is in surpluss. Consider the following: if a factory runs 1 hour a day it will need 24 times the capacity of a factory that runs 24 hours a day. The other 23 hours that huge factory will be not running. Financially that's a ruinous proposition, apart from logistical stuff like finding personel that has no idea when and how much they can work. Apart from wether the surpluss is enough to produce the h2 we would need.

For a low-efficiency pathway like green hydrogen to operate on a surplus basis means other significant non-hydrogen loads on the grid elsewhere.
The obvious two candidates for that are home heating and road transport.
If those two candidates are already hydrogen-powered and therefore the generating resources can always convert the energy, where's the surplus?
Effective decarbonisation at an affordable cost to the consumer relies on a substantial amount of high-efficiency direct electrification loads on the grid.

[pheonix478]

TGCOTF-dewey said:

Obviously it's based on the assumption that there is sufficient over-supply and appropriate flexible H2 plant design.

It follows similar Nuc concepts being touted currently - non (or very very few) staffed and off site centralised control rooms for multiple units.

The most likely would be Nuc supplying the power or process heat but we don't even have the designs yet.

There's a lot of ambition vs >>>>>>>> reality in that space at the moment.

It falls down at the vehicle end anyway.

Green H is quite a compelling story that had a mountain of dumb SPAC money thrown at it in the last few years but which seems to have unspectacularly fizzled out.
Check out Heliogen https://www.heliogen.com/solutions/#solutions, and the share price... down 99.5% since IPO in '22!

https://www.google.com/finance/quote/HLGN:OTCMKTS?...

[TGCOTF-dewey]

pheonix478 said:

Green H is quite a compelling story that had a mountain of dumb SPAC money thrown at it in the last few years but which seems to have unspectacularly fizzled out.
Check out Heliogen https://www.heliogen.com/solutions/#solutions, and the share price... down 99.5% since IPO in '22!

https://www.google.com/finance/quote/HLGN:OTCMKTS?...

Ouch... There'll be a few hedge fund managers taken a bath on that one.

[loudlashadjuster]

The whole industry is in the toilet. This fund is meant to be cream of the crop and even though it is not just pure-play hydrogen firms, it’s not exactly showing the industry in rude health.