Freedom of information Request denial (Islington council)
Discussion
I wish I had as little to complain about in my life as the OP (and his one supporter!)
You are correct, you should have had a response. That response would have been that it would take too long to find the information that you were after and therefore would be too expensive under the FoI Act.
I've never had a parking ticket. This is because I have always returned to my car at the correct time.
If you need an hour, pay for an hour.
If you might go over, pay for two hours. I've done this and then returned and moved on in maybe 1 hour 5 mins
Can I petition the council for a refund for my 55 mins?
You are correct, you should have had a response. That response would have been that it would take too long to find the information that you were after and therefore would be too expensive under the FoI Act.
I've never had a parking ticket. This is because I have always returned to my car at the correct time.
If you need an hour, pay for an hour.
If you might go over, pay for two hours. I've done this and then returned and moved on in maybe 1 hour 5 mins
Can I petition the council for a refund for my 55 mins?
Kindersley said:
we are talking about tickets been issued before you have to return to your car.
Does the ticket purchased not indicate the time it expires? That is the time by which you must return.
You may disagree with that based on the precise second you bought it, but it states clearly when you have to be back.
'de minimis' - is a legal term = stop wasting court/system's time with petty nonsense.
A few seconds makes no odds, they'll still jump on you the second you overstay and ruin your experience blah blah, it is the aggressive enforcement, not lost seconds that is the problem. What if you sit in your car for 2 minutes before getting out to pay. You are a thief? Get a grip man. I expect you're probably already on their list of vexatious/serial complainers/litigants.
A few seconds makes no odds, they'll still jump on you the second you overstay and ruin your experience blah blah, it is the aggressive enforcement, not lost seconds that is the problem. What if you sit in your car for 2 minutes before getting out to pay. You are a thief? Get a grip man. I expect you're probably already on their list of vexatious/serial complainers/litigants.
http://www.islington.gov.uk/Council/CouncilNews/Pr...
An example of Islington Councils anti-car policy. Of course this is the old left wing politics of envy and denying people personal freedom, dressed up in a nice green suit these days.
Quotes :
"
encouraging everyone to walk, cycle or use public transport instead of the car. In the past we've temporarily closed streets off to traffic but this year we're using a different tactic to show people the benefits of swapping their car for other forms of travel to show us what the cityscape could be like without cars.
Car Free Day is an international event which aims at taking cars off the streets of a city or a target area for all or part of the day to give the people who live and work there a chance to consider how their city might look and work with fewer cars.
Good Going Week is part of a London-wide campaign which promotes sustainable forms of transports and the benefits of walking, cycling and using public transport and car sharing when this is an option "
An example of Islington Councils anti-car policy. Of course this is the old left wing politics of envy and denying people personal freedom, dressed up in a nice green suit these days.
Quotes :
"
encouraging everyone to walk, cycle or use public transport instead of the car. In the past we've temporarily closed streets off to traffic but this year we're using a different tactic to show people the benefits of swapping their car for other forms of travel to show us what the cityscape could be like without cars.
Car Free Day is an international event which aims at taking cars off the streets of a city or a target area for all or part of the day to give the people who live and work there a chance to consider how their city might look and work with fewer cars.
Good Going Week is part of a London-wide campaign which promotes sustainable forms of transports and the benefits of walking, cycling and using public transport and car sharing when this is an option "
Edited by ExPat2B on Wednesday 21st July 12:48
The OP is right. I've parked in Islington for work on numerous occasions to come back and find a warden in the process of getting a fine ready for my car whole minutes before the ticket has expired.
You lot may call it pathetic and moan about public money being wasted but the fact is if you pay for 60mins parking and you are back in 58mins you too would go ballistic if a fine was slapped on your windscreen during the 59th minute as you were getting back into the car. Why should you have to pay a fine when you haven't actually done anything wrong? This forum has a terrible reputation for pedantry - so why are the same keyboard warriors who will point out all of the deliberate mistakes in this post ok with a council stiffing people out of a minute of legititmate parking?
It's not the 7p of lost parking time the OP is bemoaning, it it recieving a £60 fine during that time.
You lot may call it pathetic and moan about public money being wasted but the fact is if you pay for 60mins parking and you are back in 58mins you too would go ballistic if a fine was slapped on your windscreen during the 59th minute as you were getting back into the car. Why should you have to pay a fine when you haven't actually done anything wrong? This forum has a terrible reputation for pedantry - so why are the same keyboard warriors who will point out all of the deliberate mistakes in this post ok with a council stiffing people out of a minute of legititmate parking?
It's not the 7p of lost parking time the OP is bemoaning, it it recieving a £60 fine during that time.
PhilJ20 said:
I wish I had as little to complain about in my life as the OP (and his one supporter!)
You are correct, you should have had a response. That response would have been that it would take too long to find the information that you were after and therefore would be too expensive under the FoI Act.
I've never had a parking ticket. This is because I have always returned to my car at the correct time.
If you need an hour, pay for an hour.
If you might go over, pay for two hours. I've done this and then returned and moved on in maybe 1 hour 5 mins
Can I petition the council for a refund for my 55 mins?
I am afraid you don't have direct personal experience of driving to work in Islington or parking as a resident. It is pretty much impossible to use a car in Islington on a daily basis without incurring some kind of ticket. - in fact check out these statisitcs from another site : You are correct, you should have had a response. That response would have been that it would take too long to find the information that you were after and therefore would be too expensive under the FoI Act.
I've never had a parking ticket. This is because I have always returned to my car at the correct time.
If you need an hour, pay for an hour.
If you might go over, pay for two hours. I've done this and then returned and moved on in maybe 1 hour 5 mins
Can I petition the council for a refund for my 55 mins?
http://www.stroudgreen.org/discussion/780/i-hate-i...
Where the guy who runs the site complains about being legally parked, and they then put a restriction in overnight, and then give a ticket first thing in the morning. !
Islington make £13.4m per year from parking fines alone.
This is 334 thousand. Or nearly a thousand a day.
The population of Islington is 174,000. http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/pyramids/p...
So you could say each resident gets two tickets a year.
There are 42,000 cars in Islington. (http://www.islington.gov.uk/DownloadableDocuments/TransportandStreets/Pdf/sustainabletransportstrategy/vol1_chapter2.pdf)
At £13.4m (assuming the majority of tickets are issued to drivers in the borough), that's £320 per car.
That's before adding the £95 CPZ charge.
Edited by ExPat2B on Wednesday 21st July 12:49
I would be far more worried about the time-bases of the two clocks concerned.
How do Islington (or other councils) ensure that the clock on the ticket issuing machine and the clock the ticket checker uses both tell the same time. If they are quartz then they will inevitably drift apart, if they are locked to MSF, reception in the south of England is notoriously bad since the transmitter was moved from Rugby to Anthorne (near the Lake District). If they are locked to GPS then they need a clear view of the sky to get a good time reference - are there many tall buildings nearby?
Russ
How do Islington (or other councils) ensure that the clock on the ticket issuing machine and the clock the ticket checker uses both tell the same time. If they are quartz then they will inevitably drift apart, if they are locked to MSF, reception in the south of England is notoriously bad since the transmitter was moved from Rugby to Anthorne (near the Lake District). If they are locked to GPS then they need a clear view of the sky to get a good time reference - are there many tall buildings nearby?
Russ
C O Jones said:
I would be far more worried about the time-bases of the two clocks concerned.
How do Islington (or other councils) ensure that the clock on the ticket issuing machine and the clock the ticket checker uses both tell the same time. If they are quartz then they will inevitably drift apart, if they are locked to MSF, reception in the south of England is notoriously bad since the transmitter was moved from Rugby to Anthorne (near the Lake District). If they are locked to GPS then they need a clear view of the sky to get a good time reference - are there many tall buildings nearby?
Russ
Russ How do Islington (or other councils) ensure that the clock on the ticket issuing machine and the clock the ticket checker uses both tell the same time. If they are quartz then they will inevitably drift apart, if they are locked to MSF, reception in the south of England is notoriously bad since the transmitter was moved from Rugby to Anthorne (near the Lake District). If they are locked to GPS then they need a clear view of the sky to get a good time reference - are there many tall buildings nearby?
Russ
you raise a great point and one that is part of my complaint . They state that the machines are calibrated each day etc .Now they are referring to the wardens unit. I have twice asked to a warden to place his machine next to the display on ticket machine to see if they 'turn the min" at exactly the same time.
One refused ( well it was hard to tell what he said !) the other did and i was right. They where not calibrated together.
here is yet another problem.
1. The PCN ticket is issued using the wardens machine
2 The parking ticket /receipt members of the public enter into a contract with is different. They must be 100 % accurate TOGETHER to make things legal. We do not enter into a contract with the wardens machine. Only the machine we purchase the ticket from.
Also Islington now use Northhampton Courts for their hearings.. Yet another way to harass the public into giving up
I can grasp things... I grasped you paid for a certain amount of parking time and when that ran out you got a ticket for overstaying.
That IS what all of this is about ...yes?
I also grasped that you work in hrs mins and secs when the ticket machines work in whole hrs/mins only and you cannot seem to understand why that should be.
I grasped that you are the proud owner of an atomic clock strapped to your wrist so your timing is always right and everyone else is always wrong.
I grasped that if you want exactly the time you pay for you should stand about waiting for the ticket machine clock to tick over to the next whole minute before you bung your money in....just hope you don't get ticketed whilst you wait for it.
Let that red mist from getting the parking ticket clear and think about it for a second...you pull into a parking space, switch off, get out of the car, go to the ticket machine fumble for the money to pay for the time you intend staying, feed it into the machine...and the moment that last coin goes into the slot is the time your parking starts...you've actually already been parked about 3 minutes at least more if there's a queue at the machine...those minutes are minutes you don't pay for...that is your 'grace period'. You have until the time that is printed on your ticket to leave (timed from when that last coin is put in the machine not the time you actually parked don't forget).
Stay any longer and you stand liable to cop for an overstaying charge (which it appears you have).
Perhaps they should start charging for parking as they do at airports and long stays...where you get a ticket issued as you pass through the barrier and to get out you must pay for the time you've used since getting the ticket before you are allowed to leave.
ETA the post (which seems to have been deleted whilst I was composing the above...
That IS what all of this is about ...yes?
I also grasped that you work in hrs mins and secs when the ticket machines work in whole hrs/mins only and you cannot seem to understand why that should be.
I grasped that you are the proud owner of an atomic clock strapped to your wrist so your timing is always right and everyone else is always wrong.
I grasped that if you want exactly the time you pay for you should stand about waiting for the ticket machine clock to tick over to the next whole minute before you bung your money in....just hope you don't get ticketed whilst you wait for it.
Let that red mist from getting the parking ticket clear and think about it for a second...you pull into a parking space, switch off, get out of the car, go to the ticket machine fumble for the money to pay for the time you intend staying, feed it into the machine...and the moment that last coin goes into the slot is the time your parking starts...you've actually already been parked about 3 minutes at least more if there's a queue at the machine...those minutes are minutes you don't pay for...that is your 'grace period'. You have until the time that is printed on your ticket to leave (timed from when that last coin is put in the machine not the time you actually parked don't forget).
Stay any longer and you stand liable to cop for an overstaying charge (which it appears you have).
Perhaps they should start charging for parking as they do at airports and long stays...where you get a ticket issued as you pass through the barrier and to get out you must pay for the time you've used since getting the ticket before you are allowed to leave.
ETA the post (which seems to have been deleted whilst I was composing the above...
Kindersley said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
'de minimis' - is a legal term = stop wasting court/system's time with petty nonsense.
A few seconds makes no odds, they'll still jump on you the second you overstay and ruin your experience blah blah, it is the aggressive enforcement, not lost seconds that is the problem. What if you sit in your car for 2 minutes before getting out to pay. You are a thief? Get a grip man. I expect you're probably already on their list of vexatious/serial complainers/litigants.
Your not able to grasp things are you?A few seconds makes no odds, they'll still jump on you the second you overstay and ruin your experience blah blah, it is the aggressive enforcement, not lost seconds that is the problem. What if you sit in your car for 2 minutes before getting out to pay. You are a thief? Get a grip man. I expect you're probably already on their list of vexatious/serial complainers/litigants.
Edited by oldsoak on Wednesday 21st July 13:51
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