RE: Lotus Evora GTE Road Car Is A Go-er
Discussion
I also disagree with Guvernator (mostly, but not totally).
- Although it was old in the tooth the Espirit was being sold until the late 90s, wasn't it?
- I think the majority of the target buyers of new Lotuses will be of the age that they remember watching Roger Moore's 007 driving in Espirits.
Also, people keep losing sight of the sales numbers that Lotus are aiming for when they talk about Lotus competing with Porsche and Ferrari. The products might be competing, the sales levels are utterly different (i.e. Lotus is aiming for maybe 5% of Porsche sales?)
- Although it was old in the tooth the Espirit was being sold until the late 90s, wasn't it?
- I think the majority of the target buyers of new Lotuses will be of the age that they remember watching Roger Moore's 007 driving in Espirits.
Also, people keep losing sight of the sales numbers that Lotus are aiming for when they talk about Lotus competing with Porsche and Ferrari. The products might be competing, the sales levels are utterly different (i.e. Lotus is aiming for maybe 5% of Porsche sales?)
The Pits said:
Ford did it successfully with the new GT. Tapped into 60's heritage, their right to do so. The GT40 was an incredible achievement, a long time ago yes (never mind 30 years ago, try 50!), but I'd argue Ford would be mad not to acknowledge and celebrate it, providing the manner of that honors the memory of original - not for anyone else's sake but Fords. To stick GT badges on a focus will devalue that heritage.
In fact there is a very good reason to do it. Some of the people who fell in love with cars like the Ford GT40 and Lotus 49 when they were young are now extremely wealthy now.Nostalgia can have a strong influence on people, even the rich.
Thorburn said:
In fact there is a very good reason to do it. Some of the people who fell in love with cars like the Ford GT40 and Lotus 49 when they were young are now extremely wealthy now.
Nostalgia can have a strong influence on people, even the rich.
And look at Alfa with the 8C - nothing like the rest of their product offering in terms of concept or cost, but they all still sold like a flash (and I can see why!)Nostalgia can have a strong influence on people, even the rich.
The Pits said:
I'd be with Lord Colin on this one.
Heritage is heritage. It doesn't matter whether it's 30 years ago, no-one can take away what Lotus achieved.
Jaguar are haven't achieved much in racing recently but their success in the 50's and 60's is part of the brand too. Like Lotus is also gives them the right to tap into that heritage for future models should they wish. Whether anyone will care if Jag made a new E-type is up to the market to decide.
As for jumping up a league or two, why ever not? It's all about whether or not it is done successfully or not.
Ford did it successfully with the new GT. Tapped into 60's heritage, their right to do so. The GT40 was an incredible achievement, a long time ago yes (never mind 30 years ago, try 50!), but I'd argue Ford would be mad not to acknowledge and celebrate it, providing the manner of that honors the memory of original - not for anyone else's sake but Fords. To stick GT badges on a focus will devalue that heritage.
To produce a stunning top end modern supercar evoking the lines of the 60's original was an inspired move. I've been lucky to drive a Ford GT and they are brilliant. Lotus have just as much right, if not more, than Ford to both tap into their heritage and also to make any car they wish, at any price point, providing it's very, very good and it sells. There are no rules to abide by other than that.
Incidentally there is more than a rumour that Lotus had a hand in the Ford GT development, and it shows, the steering for one is astonishingly good, doubley so for an American car. So if Lotus have the nous and talent to make a car like the GT so good, why the heck shouldn't they have a go at one their own? It's simply a matter of resources.
The GT40 was the poster car for whole generations of enthusiasts many years ago and it continued to be a much loved car even today, so much so in fact that people were successfully selling GT40 replicas so as you stated, it was a very shrewd move by Ford. They tapped directly into that nostalgia by basically making a factory sanctioned modern day replica in the GT. That is the reason why it was a success, Lotus have not done this. They haven't gone back to their back catalogue to mine the nostalgia value, the Evora is a new car so how they thought they were going to jump straight into the very competitive £50k+ bracket with the big boys, let alone £125k is baffling to me.Heritage is heritage. It doesn't matter whether it's 30 years ago, no-one can take away what Lotus achieved.
Jaguar are haven't achieved much in racing recently but their success in the 50's and 60's is part of the brand too. Like Lotus is also gives them the right to tap into that heritage for future models should they wish. Whether anyone will care if Jag made a new E-type is up to the market to decide.
As for jumping up a league or two, why ever not? It's all about whether or not it is done successfully or not.
Ford did it successfully with the new GT. Tapped into 60's heritage, their right to do so. The GT40 was an incredible achievement, a long time ago yes (never mind 30 years ago, try 50!), but I'd argue Ford would be mad not to acknowledge and celebrate it, providing the manner of that honors the memory of original - not for anyone else's sake but Fords. To stick GT badges on a focus will devalue that heritage.
To produce a stunning top end modern supercar evoking the lines of the 60's original was an inspired move. I've been lucky to drive a Ford GT and they are brilliant. Lotus have just as much right, if not more, than Ford to both tap into their heritage and also to make any car they wish, at any price point, providing it's very, very good and it sells. There are no rules to abide by other than that.
Incidentally there is more than a rumour that Lotus had a hand in the Ford GT development, and it shows, the steering for one is astonishingly good, doubley so for an American car. So if Lotus have the nous and talent to make a car like the GT so good, why the heck shouldn't they have a go at one their own? It's simply a matter of resources.
I don't think they are incapable of moving up a level or two, far from it. I just think they have tried to jump too far. For my first "new" car I would have priced it at just above the Elise price range, ie in the £40k bracket, comfortably undercutting the likes of Porsche. I would have then slowly moved up the price range untill finally releasing the range topper in the shape of the Espirit by which stage the market should be ready for a £100k Lotus, especially given the Espirits oh so important nostalgia value. As the first in the new Lotus lineup, the Evora had to either be cheaper or it had to be considerably better than it's well established competitors which it wasn't and I think the Evora's poor sales figures bear this out.
Guvernator said:
the Evora had to either be cheaper or it had to be considerably better than it's well established competitors which it wasn't and I think the Evora's poor sales figures bear this out.
It punches its weight in its price point, and has rear seats, is great to look at and fantastic to drive. There really isn't anything not to like in my book. And if I had 60k to blow on a new car, I'd be in one like a flash.zebedee said:
Guvernator said:
the Evora had to either be cheaper or it had to be considerably better than it's well established competitors which it wasn't and I think the Evora's poor sales figures bear this out.
It punches its weight in its price point, and has rear seats, is great to look at and fantastic to drive. There really isn't anything not to like in my book. And if I had 60k to blow on a new car, I'd be in one like a flash.Cayman - Execellent handling too, as good as the Evora in fact, better engine and often cited as a class leader. It has better build quality plus it has the strong Porsche brand behind it.
BMW M3 - true 4 seating capability, brilliant engine, atmittedly heavier and doesn't handle as well as the Evora but it's a better allrounder, more luxurious and has the unbeatable M3 brand image
GTR - Brilliant engine, quicker my a huge margin, a tonne of unanimously glowing reviews, a genuine 4 seater, brilliant handling and often touted as a benchmark car. Admittedly some people don't like the Japanese "ricer" image or looks but the GTR name carries tonnes of kudos.
That's just 3 cars off the top of my head which directly compete with the Evora in terms of price and customer\usage profile. If the Evora was a lot better or a reasonable amount cheaper, it would have done better, but it isn't. As it stands out of those 4, I'd see it as the leftfield choice which is fine as if we all liked\bought the same things, the world would be boring but it's not good for a small manufacturer attempting to gain some sales volume in a very competitive market. I can't knock their ambition in trying to take on the big boys though, just sceptical as to how it will all pan out.
zebedee said:
It punches its weight in its price point, and has rear seats, is great to look at and fantastic to drive. There really isn't anything not to like in my book. And if I had 60k to blow on a new car, I'd be in one like a flash.
Flash! Ah Ah! he'll save evry one of us, King of the Impossible.Sorry, I thought this was the Freddie Mercury thread.
The Ford GT sold because it was epic.
The ZR1 tried to tap into the earlier ZR1 but it wasn't that relevant.
If it was simply a question of tapping the retro, they'd all do it with the new Miura, new Countach, new Dino, new daytona - it's not a good move. Even Jag recognised that with the aborted F-Type.
Lotus can, and I really hope will, do epic.
there will always be a market for an F40 type car and that is a place ferrari won't go anymore as they are all about high technology these days (read F1 inspired - give me a break). It's the type of car that Lotus could do really well but it has to look out of this world and drive and handle accordingly well. It must above all else be an object of desire to command big money.
Get it right and it wouldn't matter what badge is on the nose. A lotus badge certainly wouldn't be a hindrance. The mega bucks lotus single seater thing has apparently gone quite well among the super rich as further proof.
As for jumping up the food chain. VW thought nothing of inventing a whole new uber class with the Bugatti.
But alas any mega Lotus road cars will be out of my price range, just like the F40 was and still is. That's a shame for me but if the markets there, why not have a go at it? For what it's worth, irrelevant as they are to me, I'm still glad the F40, Aston One-77 et al exist.
there will always be a market for an F40 type car and that is a place ferrari won't go anymore as they are all about high technology these days (read F1 inspired - give me a break). It's the type of car that Lotus could do really well but it has to look out of this world and drive and handle accordingly well. It must above all else be an object of desire to command big money.
Get it right and it wouldn't matter what badge is on the nose. A lotus badge certainly wouldn't be a hindrance. The mega bucks lotus single seater thing has apparently gone quite well among the super rich as further proof.
As for jumping up the food chain. VW thought nothing of inventing a whole new uber class with the Bugatti.
But alas any mega Lotus road cars will be out of my price range, just like the F40 was and still is. That's a shame for me but if the markets there, why not have a go at it? For what it's worth, irrelevant as they are to me, I'm still glad the F40, Aston One-77 et al exist.
Guvernator said:
The rear seats are barely useable in the 2+2 version, the standard Evora has none. I think it's a decent looking car although does look odd from certain angles. It handles very well but the interior isn't brilliant, there are well documented questions around it's build quality and personaly I think it's engine is average. So IMO it's a good car but not great. Now let's consider that at that price point it is in competion with the following
Cayman - Execellent handling too, as good as the Evora in fact, better engine and often cited as a class leader. It has better build quality plus it has the strong Porsche brand behind it.
BMW M3 - true 4 seating capability, brilliant engine, atmittedly heavier and doesn't handle as well as the Evora but it's a better allrounder, more luxurious and has the unbeatable M3 brand image
GTR - Brilliant engine, quicker my a huge margin, a tonne of unanimously glowing reviews, a genuine 4 seater, brilliant handling and often touted as a benchmark car. Admittedly some people don't like the Japanese "ricer" image or looks but the GTR name carries tonnes of kudos.
That's just 3 cars off the top of my head which directly compete with the Evora in terms of price and customer\usage profile. If the Evora was a lot better or a reasonable amount cheaper, it would have done better, but it isn't. As it stands out of those 4, I'd see it as the leftfield choice which is fine as if we all liked\bought the same things, the world would be boring but it's not good for a small manufacturer attempting to gain some sales volume in a very competitive market. I can't knock their ambition in trying to take on the big boys though, just sceptical as to how it will all pan out.
Cayman - not driven one but think they look fairly dull and Evo described it as feeling 'wooden' when driven back to back. Interior in Lotus a nicer place to be, agree lots of talk of build problems in Evora, but think that was early press cars - nothing wrong with them now. Engine in Evora S sounds great when being wrung out, but nice and quiet when you want to potter, I like it.Cayman - Execellent handling too, as good as the Evora in fact, better engine and often cited as a class leader. It has better build quality plus it has the strong Porsche brand behind it.
BMW M3 - true 4 seating capability, brilliant engine, atmittedly heavier and doesn't handle as well as the Evora but it's a better allrounder, more luxurious and has the unbeatable M3 brand image
GTR - Brilliant engine, quicker my a huge margin, a tonne of unanimously glowing reviews, a genuine 4 seater, brilliant handling and often touted as a benchmark car. Admittedly some people don't like the Japanese "ricer" image or looks but the GTR name carries tonnes of kudos.
That's just 3 cars off the top of my head which directly compete with the Evora in terms of price and customer\usage profile. If the Evora was a lot better or a reasonable amount cheaper, it would have done better, but it isn't. As it stands out of those 4, I'd see it as the leftfield choice which is fine as if we all liked\bought the same things, the world would be boring but it's not good for a small manufacturer attempting to gain some sales volume in a very competitive market. I can't knock their ambition in trying to take on the big boys though, just sceptical as to how it will all pan out.
M3 - dull looking saloon, engine sounds like a bag of nails without a decent exhaust (at least from outside) and BMW has an awful 'look at me' image for many.
GTR - big and fat, no matter how brilliant it may be. Do they cost a fortune to keep on the road too with all that kit?
agreed other people would place in different order, but I'd have the Evora, and back seats perfect for the 2 kids child seats and they loved it
zebedee said:
Cayman - not driven one but think they look fairly dull and Evo described it as feeling 'wooden' when driven back to back. Interior in Lotus a nicer place to be, agree lots of talk of build problems in Evora, but think that was early press cars - nothing wrong with them now. Engine in Evora S sounds great when being wrung out, but nice and quiet when you want to potter, I like it.
M3 - dull looking saloon, engine sounds like a bag of nails without a decent exhaust (at least from outside) and BMW has an awful 'look at me' image for many.
GTR - big and fat, no matter how brilliant it may be. Do they cost a fortune to keep on the road too with all that kit?
agreed other people would place in different order, but I'd have the Evora, and back seats perfect for the 2 kids child seats and they loved it
I'd argue that you are in the minority though and your slagging off of the class leading cars mentioned above shows a slightly blinkered view IMO. The poor Evora sales figures would agree with me.M3 - dull looking saloon, engine sounds like a bag of nails without a decent exhaust (at least from outside) and BMW has an awful 'look at me' image for many.
GTR - big and fat, no matter how brilliant it may be. Do they cost a fortune to keep on the road too with all that kit?
agreed other people would place in different order, but I'd have the Evora, and back seats perfect for the 2 kids child seats and they loved it
I'm not saying the Evora is a bad car, far from it. It's 95% there, it's that last 5% which Lotus failed to get right. This could have been forgiven if it undercut it's competitors but the fact that it's price tag puts in smack bang in the middle of one of the most competitive sectors of the market meant they couldn't really afford to release a car that "almost got it right". Had they perfected that last 5% or if they had priced this at £40k rather than 50, I suspect it would have done a lot better.
Guvernator said:
I'd argue that you are in the minority though and your slagging off of the class leading cars mentioned above shows a slightly blinkered view IMO. The poor Evora sales figures would agree with me.
I'm not saying the Evora is a bad car, far from it. It's 95% there, it's that last 5% which Lotus failed to get right. This could have been forgiven if it undercut it's competitors but the fact that it's price tag puts in smack bang in the middle of one of the most competitive sectors of the market meant they couldn't really afford to release a car that "almost got it right". Had they perfected that last 5% or if they had priced this at £40k rather than 50, I suspect it would have done a lot better.
you wouldn't have to argue with me, I know I am in the minority. If it undercut its competitors then it wouldn't have been good enough or far removed enough from the Exige. So they had to take them on and they did, and they get knocked for it because Clarkson saw a bit of loose stitching and people drive round in them with the sport button not pressed and not exceeding 4k and decide the engine has no soul or doesn't sound nice. So people stick to 'safe' choices like the Cayman or the M3, which is a shame, because if those people had only tried one, they may have been converted. They never intended to sell M3 quantities of them anyway, so as a car that hit lots of headlines and showed Lotus moving away from just the Elise and some crazy specials it also had and has a useful role. Increased marketing etc is starting to yield results according to a dealer I spoke to a few weeks ago.I'm not saying the Evora is a bad car, far from it. It's 95% there, it's that last 5% which Lotus failed to get right. This could have been forgiven if it undercut it's competitors but the fact that it's price tag puts in smack bang in the middle of one of the most competitive sectors of the market meant they couldn't really afford to release a car that "almost got it right". Had they perfected that last 5% or if they had priced this at £40k rather than 50, I suspect it would have done a lot better.
very nice this Evora GTE F1
2013 Lotus Evora GTE F1 Special Edition
2013 Lotus Evora GTE F1 Special Edition
story said:
A few days ago, it was reported that Lotus would be bringing a Formula One inspired Evora GTE to the Geneva Motor Show and now images of this vehicle have popped up on the internet for our enjoyment. The special edition Evora GTE will be unveiled by Lotus F1 Team driver, Kimi Raikkonen, who will also be on-hand in Geneva to answer any questions on the special edition Evora.
Right now, there are still many questions left unanswered since no specific details have been given on possible engine upgrades. Aesthetics, of course, are now readily available thanks to these images. The F1 Evora GTE features the Lotus F1 team’s colors and graphics, including a large Lotus insignia on the rear wing and gold finish alloy wheels. There is also a "10" logo on the vehicle to represent the number used by Kimi Räikkönen’s team mate, Romain Grosjean, this season.
The standard Evora GTE is powered by a race-tuned 3.5-liter V6 engine that delivers a total of 444 HP, making it the most powerful Lotus road car ever built. We’ll see what the F1 Evora GTE brings to the table when more details are unveiled next week!
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/lotus/2013-lotus-evora-gte-f1-special-edition-ar125475.htmlRight now, there are still many questions left unanswered since no specific details have been given on possible engine upgrades. Aesthetics, of course, are now readily available thanks to these images. The F1 Evora GTE features the Lotus F1 team’s colors and graphics, including a large Lotus insignia on the rear wing and gold finish alloy wheels. There is also a "10" logo on the vehicle to represent the number used by Kimi Räikkönen’s team mate, Romain Grosjean, this season.
The standard Evora GTE is powered by a race-tuned 3.5-liter V6 engine that delivers a total of 444 HP, making it the most powerful Lotus road car ever built. We’ll see what the F1 Evora GTE brings to the table when more details are unveiled next week!
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