RE: Toyota GT86/Subaru BRZ: PH Buying Guide

[JB!]

venquessa said:

JB! said:

1. The 2nd gear issue. Its a bd when cold. Looks to be clutch disengagement issues, not the clutch itself, the throw arm on the box has adjustment and lo and behold! Needs a tweak. doing mine soon and will update my build thread accordingly. The clutch drags basically. See:
http://www.gt86.org.uk/forums/topic/2478-gearbox-i...

I had a buzzing gear stick at high rpm, replaced under warranty without quibble. Then it started again. This time they uprated the mounting bushes and my 2nd gear issue has gone away. It's never shifted better, is now the advertised flick of the wrist change.

JB! said:

3. The standard tyres. Hilarious for about the first 5 mins. Swap out ASAP and enjoy a fun and predictable chassis, I currently run Rainsports, loads of good options out there.

I find the Primacies absolutely fine. Makes the car very frisky and lively. Tail flicks and rear wheel steering are available in 1st and 2nd anywhere you want. The only negative I would give them is in their total lack of progression in the wet. They go instantly from 100% grip to 0% grip without any communication or warning. This leads to some amusing ballet in the wet, even at 10mph in rush hour. Still the car laps it up as long as you are quick on the steering to straighten or oppo it.

They track fine once warmed up, very predictable and progressive in the dry.

There are many stories of people who fit stickier rubber and feel they destroyed the car's playfulness. PS3s for example will totally destroy the dry weather playfullness.

Oh and they have a 30k mile guarantee (in some locales anyway). Mine have been off the car over winter but have lasted 3 years (8 months of each year) and a track day.. they still have 4mm left on them.

Each to their own of course, but I think grippy rubber misses some of the point of the 86.

JB! said:

5. Rust. Not so much the bodies, but certainly things like droplinks and toe arms are pretty siezed on most older cars now, so if you are into DIY, make sure you have replacements if removing, or access to heat or both.

Quarter light window pillars rust apparently (where they touch the door). Still replaceable under warranty to 5 years I believe. Body rust is covered for 7 years. I have only seen one report of body rust. Some fixings and fastenings under the bonnet look a little orange now at 3 years, so I'd recommend 1. Not removing the green goo. 2. Spraying some ACF-50 in there once a year.

Edited by venquessa on Thursday 1st June 18:42

Yeah going poly shifter bushing soon.

The Primacy are fking awful. Had a Rainsport die today, and now running 2 factory rears with factory tyres and the lack of grip is just frustrating, trust me sticky rubber just makes for bigger grins.

Yeah I need to get quarterlights done. Note what I was discussing, not body rust but suspension component.

[venquessa]

JB! said:

The Primacy are fking awful. Had a Rainsport die today, and now running 2 factory rears with factory tyres and the lack of grip is just frustrating, trust me sticky rubber just makes for bigger grins.

Each to their own. I enjoy the low grip. Makes the car more of a challenge. Still plenty of grip for safe driving, but hoon mode is easily available with only 151ftlb of torque.... at sensible speeds.

I'm probably changing the car to another 86, so will have fresh primacies otherwise I was going to be stuck trying to find a similar tyre with a bit better wet weather progression... thing is, tyre manufacturers do not claim their tyre has low grip or high progression obviously.

[s m]

venquessa said:

JB! said:

The Primacy are fking awful. Had a Rainsport die today, and now running 2 factory rears with factory tyres and the lack of grip is just frustrating, trust me sticky rubber just makes for bigger grins.

Each to their own. I enjoy the low grip. Makes the car more of a challenge. Still plenty of grip for safe driving, but hoon mode is easily available with only 151ftlb of torque.... at sensible speeds.

I'm probably changing the car to another 86, so will have fresh primacies otherwise I was going to be stuck trying to find a similar tyre with a bit better wet weather progression... thing is, tyre manufacturers do not claim their tyre has low grip or high progression obviously.

The Primacy tyre thing quite intrigues me about the GT86/BRZ.
Most people seem to constantly mention the "skinny" tyres, only 215 section and low grip of the OE choice. I don't think they're especially skinny for a 1200kg sporty coupe personally, realistically I wouldn't have thought they would have gone anymore than 225 on something this size and quite a few similar weight hot hatches have tyres no wider. Heavier RX8 got 225s didn't they?
The low grip of the tyres is often mentioned too. I've only driven a GT86 briefly ( and certainly wasn't privileged enough to have had the sort of test drive where I could dance the car on the edge of adhesion around every roundabout ) but I didn't find it short on grip at all, certainly in the dry at least. Maybe my views are outdated as I'm used to older rwd stuff of that weight which generally had a lot less grip.
Every time I've seen a road test where they've measured steady state lateral 'g' it has seemed at least as good as anything else sporty with similar size rubber on.

For example, in the Autocar test they recorded 0.99g



Looking at small hot hatches, Clio RS200, Corsa VXR, Cooper S, from around that time they achieve roughly the same ( or very slightly less ) on the same grip circle.

Nissan 370Z - same figure - 0.99g , 2009 Golf Gti 0.96g, Focus RS MK2 0.99g, Audi R8 1.0g
So a GT86/BRZ seems to generate about the grip you'd expect for a car of that class.

People will say, well it's a dodgy magazine reading.....so if you look at the Car and Driver mag instrumented test figures for the grip circle, they're around 0.9g ( less grippy skid pad used obviously ) for the GT86....same as the 370Z ( heavier but much fatter rubber ) they tested and pretty much the same as similar hot hatches.

In another mag, Road and Track, they do mention the grip improvements on stickier compound and fatter, stickier rubber - Dunlop Star Spec track rubber



Still seems to offer comparable lateral grip to a WRX or Mazda 3 MPS, both on fatter rubber, as it comes on the OEM Primacy. They do show as you read right across the grid how lateral grip improves, as you'd expect, on fatter tyres. People don't seem to mention lack of grip on these other cars?

In the dry at least they seem to offer pretty respectable grip and quite a progressive window of grip to slip according to a lot of reviews.

Some owners are saying, and I'm certainly not arguing with people with experience of the cars, that the tyres are a very different story in the wet, let go suddenly, poor wet grip etc

It seems to me though that almost every review seems to mention the low grip tyres, how skinny, if only the car had fatter rubber etc.
Is it just one of these things that has become ingrained in every review of these cars or are they all related to wet testing?

[JB!]

s m said:

venquessa said:

JB! said:

The Primacy are fking awful. Had a Rainsport die today, and now running 2 factory rears with factory tyres and the lack of grip is just frustrating, trust me sticky rubber just makes for bigger grins.

Each to their own. I enjoy the low grip. Makes the car more of a challenge. Still plenty of grip for safe driving, but hoon mode is easily available with only 151ftlb of torque.... at sensible speeds.

I'm probably changing the car to another 86, so will have fresh primacies otherwise I was going to be stuck trying to find a similar tyre with a bit better wet weather progression... thing is, tyre manufacturers do not claim their tyre has low grip or high progression obviously.

The Primacy tyre thing quite intrigues me about the GT86/BRZ.
Most people seem to constantly mention the "skinny" tyres, only 215 section and low grip of the OE choice. I don't think they're especially skinny for a 1200kg sporty coupe personally, realistically I wouldn't have thought they would have gone anymore than 225 on something this size and quite a few similar weight hot hatches have tyres no wider. Heavier RX8 got 225s didn't they?
The low grip of the tyres is often mentioned too. I've only driven a GT86 briefly ( and certainly wasn't privileged enough to have had the sort of test drive where I could dance the car on the edge of adhesion around every roundabout ) but I didn't find it short on grip at all, certainly in the dry at least. Maybe my views are outdated as I'm used to older rwd stuff of that weight which generally had a lot less grip.
Every time I've seen a road test where they've measured steady state lateral 'g' it has seemed at least as good as anything else sporty with similar size rubber on.

For example, in the Autocar test they recorded 0.99g



Looking at small hot hatches, Clio RS200, Corsa VXR, Cooper S, from around that time they achieve roughly the same ( or very slightly less ) on the same grip circle.

Nissan 370Z - same figure - 0.99g , 2009 Golf Gti 0.96g, Focus RS MK2 0.99g, Audi R8 1.0g
So a GT86/BRZ seems to generate about the grip you'd expect for a car of that class.

People will say, well it's a dodgy magazine reading.....so if you look at the Car and Driver mag instrumented test figures for the grip circle, they're around 0.9g ( less grippy skid pad used obviously ) for the GT86....same as the 370Z ( heavier but much fatter rubber ) they tested and pretty much the same as similar hot hatches.

In another mag, Road and Track, they do mention the grip improvements on stickier compound and fatter, stickier rubber - Dunlop Star Spec track rubber



Still seems to offer comparable lateral grip to a WRX or Mazda 3 MPS, both on fatter rubber, as it comes on the OEM Primacy. They do show as you read right across the grid how lateral grip improves, as you'd expect, on fatter tyres. People don't seem to mention lack of grip on these other cars?

In the dry at least they seem to offer pretty respectable grip and quite a progressive window of grip to slip according to a lot of reviews.

Some owners are saying, and I'm certainly not arguing with people with experience of the cars, that the tyres are a very different story in the wet, let go suddenly, poor wet grip etc

It seems to me though that almost every review seems to mention the low grip tyres, how skinny, if only the car had fatter rubber etc.
Is it just one of these things that has become ingrained in every review of these cars or are they all related to wet testing?

I must push mine harder then, or run a higher PSI, as I find they step out so quickly compared to the front axle, and compared to when i had rainsports on the rear.

I'm about to go up to 18x8.5 on a 225/40/18, with 2x new rainsports and 2x part worn vredstein, so will see how they get on.

[s m]

JB! said:

I must push mine harder then, or run a higher PSI, as I find they step out so quickly compared to the front axle, and compared to when i had rainsports on the rear.

I'm about to go up to 18x8.5 on a 225/40/18, with 2x new rainsports and 2x part worn vredstein, so will see how they get on.

I certainly wouldn't argue with you as I only had a test drive, it was just an observation that seems to be mentioned on every road test I've seen/read. I've had a few hot hatches and it seemed no worse than any of them for sheer grip

Interestingly ( and this is often the case when they do similar tests with different wheels/tyres ) for the test below, the car did the fastest lap on standard size stickier rubber. The largest sticky tyres on bigger wheels were a bit slower on the lap ( although a smidge quicker in the slalom



Maybe the sticky 17s are the 'sweet spot'

[JB!]

s m said:

JB! said:

I must push mine harder then, or run a higher PSI, as I find they step out so quickly compared to the front axle, and compared to when i had rainsports on the rear.

I'm about to go up to 18x8.5 on a 225/40/18, with 2x new rainsports and 2x part worn vredstein, so will see how they get on.

I certainly wouldn't argue with you as I only had a test drive, it was just an observation that seems to be mentioned on every road test I've seen/read. I've had a few hot hatches and it seemed no worse than any of them for sheer grip

Interestingly ( and this is often the case when they do similar tests with different wheels/tyres ) for the test below, the car did the fastest lap on standard size stickier rubber. The largest sticky tyres on bigger wheels were a bit slower on the lap ( although a smidge quicker in the slalom



Maybe the sticky 17s are the 'sweet spot'

Yeah Motor trend did a video with a standard GT86 and stock wheels and tyres vs lighter wheels and sticky rubber and the latter smashed it.

https://youtu.be/QQwWdZ00HYQ

Edited by JB! on Wednesday 7th June 11:06