Garages Ripping People off, or trying to
Discussion
One that annoyed me last week was tyres, more specifically a local tyre place. Had the car tested at a place that only does MOTs, advisories on both front tyres that I expected.
Leave test centre, go to tyre place and was quoted £93 each for a mid range tyre. Ask if they’ll fit the new tyres on the rear and rotate the wheels they want another £20.
The same tyres fitted at the same place, but ordered through black circles are £77 each. So they’re overcharging by £30 odd and then asking an extra £20 to undo an extra 8 nut!
Leave test centre, go to tyre place and was quoted £93 each for a mid range tyre. Ask if they’ll fit the new tyres on the rear and rotate the wheels they want another £20.
The same tyres fitted at the same place, but ordered through black circles are £77 each. So they’re overcharging by £30 odd and then asking an extra £20 to undo an extra 8 nut!
Sheepshanks said:
Why is so little wear allowable? Appreciate you don’t want to have wafer thin discs but building in only a couple of mm seems bonkers, not to mention wasteful.
I've just found this. WHEN SHOULD BRAKE DISCS BE CHANGED?
The crucial aspect with brake discs is the so-called "minimum thickness". This is the minimum dimension that every brake disc must have and which is specified by the manufacturer. It is abbreviated to "MIN TH" and can be found on the rim or at the chamber of the brake disc. Two to three millimetres of wear are generally acceptable.
Natural brake disc wear is relatively easy to detect. When a disc is worn, a burr can be felt at the rim, as the disc only becomes worn where the brake pad is applied. The more pronounced the burr, the worse the disc wear is. Experts use special instruments to measure the thickness of the brake discs.
Sheepshanks said:
Why is so little wear allowable? Appreciate you don’t want to have wafer thin discs but building in only a couple of mm seems bonkers, not to mention wasteful.
I wondered this myself, but don't honestly know. There are a few things I thought it could be due to:Heat treatment - I don't know if discs are heat treated, but normally heat treatment only penetrates a mm or so before you reach soft metal.
Could be the the amount of thermal energy the entire disc can take before it starts to soften and distort.
Could simply be geometric - that with 6 or 7mm of pad wear plus 1-2mm disc wear, the pistons run out of travel and either start to tilt in their bores or fall out alltogether.
Could be that the pads start to seize against the lips, but presumably that could be designed out by having slightly larger pads.
Could be just to avoid discs being to heavy.
Sheepshanks said:
Why is so little wear allowable? Appreciate you don’t want to have wafer thin discs but building in only a couple of mm seems bonkers, not to mention wasteful.
Usually the disc will be suffering heat cycle fatigue long before its 'worn away'. I usually have to change discs because of cracks (or disc breaking apart) rather than being worn down. Anything that can catch your nail is change immediately.I'm just in the process of doing some work on my car so have the full service manual to hand:
Brake disc thickness:
New 26.0 mm
Service Minimum 24.9 mm
Brake pads:
Standard pad thickness 10.0 mm
Minimum pad thickness 2.5 mm
Remembering the OP took the car in as 'the brake wear warning light has come on' to me it's not a surprise they have suggested new pads and discs
Brake disc thickness:
New 26.0 mm
Service Minimum 24.9 mm
Brake pads:
Standard pad thickness 10.0 mm
Minimum pad thickness 2.5 mm
Remembering the OP took the car in as 'the brake wear warning light has come on' to me it's not a surprise they have suggested new pads and discs
I find main dealer garages are worse than the small independent ones. I took my Transporter into a VW van center to investigate a common problem. They never did quite manage to fix the problem but came back with almost £3000 worth of things that need addressing. A lot of them were precautionary and not required but they said the brake discs and pads needed replacing. I took it to a small garage, and they said that the pads were getting close to need replacing but the discs were absolutely fine. I think the main dealers have a huge push to generate income in after sales so will stretch the truth, make preemptive work seem mandatory or even outright lie to get your money.
3GGy said:
I've come to realise "we can't find anything wrong" to mean, 'it's not dics and pads or an oil change, so we can't be arsed".
That's been my struggle. I get it, it's good business, I just wish they would tell me that before I've wasted a day leaving a car with them.
That's exactly the experience I have found of garages. If it's not an easy job, they tend to turn it away unless it's your usual service items. That's been my struggle. I get it, it's good business, I just wish they would tell me that before I've wasted a day leaving a car with them.
I've used a very good Merc specialist who never shy away from work and I have a chap who's become a friend who will help fix anything and will be honest if it's tricky but he'll have a go and is honest.
I recently moved area and managed to find a really good Saab specialist but not a local mechanic. Found one chap who came recommended in FB, messaged back and forth on there about looking at an issue with my Saab roof. Guy just went silent on me about it yet had initially said he'd have a look. I'd have had no issue with him saying it might be a specialist job but think it's more unprofessional to just vanish.
monkfish1 said:
A % figure is a nonsense unless they know the thickness when it was new. I bet they dont.
If they just measured remaining pad thickness and reported that, it would be so much simpler.
Id be more concerned about the disc thickness looking at the pics.
Say to a customer "your brake pads are 85% worn". Or "Your brake pads are currently at 3.2mm and the limit is 2.5mm"If they just measured remaining pad thickness and reported that, it would be so much simpler.
Id be more concerned about the disc thickness looking at the pics.
Which is easier to understand for the layperson?
Of course, what gets reported by the Tech can take on a whole new agenda when it gets into the "Technician Secretary department" with the phones and no actual technical knowledge whatsoever...
ChrisH79 said:
One that annoyed me last week was tyres, more specifically a local tyre place. Had the car tested at a place that only does MOTs, advisories on both front tyres that I expected.
Leave test centre, go to tyre place and was quoted £93 each for a mid range tyre. Ask if they’ll fit the new tyres on the rear and rotate the wheels they want another £20.
The same tyres fitted at the same place, but ordered through black circles are £77 each. So they’re overcharging by £30 odd and then asking an extra £20 to undo an extra 8 nut!
As I understand when you order through Blackcircles they send your desired tyres to the garage, the garage don't pull them off their own stock, Blackcircles have bulk buying power so they can do them cheaper. Leave test centre, go to tyre place and was quoted £93 each for a mid range tyre. Ask if they’ll fit the new tyres on the rear and rotate the wheels they want another £20.
The same tyres fitted at the same place, but ordered through black circles are £77 each. So they’re overcharging by £30 odd and then asking an extra £20 to undo an extra 8 nut!
I'm not trying to defend your local tyre shops pricing but that is what I was informed by a garage a few years ago
Main dealer wanted £2732 from me for 2 year old fluid changes & diagnostics LOL
Same main dealer told me last year all my brake discs were critical they are not then & still are'nt now!) that would be £1400 + VAT guvnor & leave the car with us for 3 days......
So I did the pads myself about 6 months after when they actually needed replacing & the discs are still fine. IME most are dishonest & yes looking to charge you for things which do not need doing at all!
When you find an honest decent mechanic make sure you look after £££ him or her as they are very rare!
Same main dealer told me last year all my brake discs were critical they are not then & still are'nt now!) that would be £1400 + VAT guvnor & leave the car with us for 3 days......
So I did the pads myself about 6 months after when they actually needed replacing & the discs are still fine. IME most are dishonest & yes looking to charge you for things which do not need doing at all!
When you find an honest decent mechanic make sure you look after £££ him or her as they are very rare!
Don’t disagree with any of the good, the bad and the just plain ugly. But as a previous poster stated, once you find a reputable garage, stick with them, support them, refer them to others. Luckily we have one such independent BMW specialist in Yeovil. Have used them for 20+ years and trust him implicitly. If Dave says it needs doing, it does. And if he says it will last to the next service, it will.
For all my other cars and MOTs, I use the local garage in my village. Recently taken over by father and son, who used to work there, it is a proper old fashioned garage. They’ve helped me out when I’ve run out of talent, lent me tools, and done the jobs that I just don’t fancy on my driveway.
Culminated last autumn with my old Alfa Spider needing a CV boot for the MOT. But no time to fit in as they were short staffed. However the guys then surprised me with the ‘work for us for a week to clear the back log and we’ll /you’ll do the boot’
I had a week off from my day job (and tbf, have worked on cars since the late 80s so am not a complete novice). They also regularly sign off my work with MOT items they have picked up and I have resolved.
So I did 4 mornings for my cv boot and loved it. They are a local garage doing general servicing and MOTs on their 3 ramps , one of which I got to work from. They don’t want engine rebuilds etc that tie up a ramp for days/weeks.
It was a real eye opener. I’m a car person but not obsessive. But the state of some of the vehicles presented was staggering. 10 yo Yeti, for an oil change. Pulled the filter out and it was coagulated black residue, never seen anything like it. Could begin to guess when last done. Owner says many consider an MOT a service when asked!!
Most interesting was a Tiguan in for pad and disc change. But ns caliper seized. I offered to clean, lubricate etc as I would on mine. Owner just picks up the phone to order a new replacement. It would cost me more in time than a new part. But most importantly, even if I salvage but 6 months later it sticks, it is not worth the hassle from the customer, regardless if he explains the saving.
Father and son both fully trained mechanics but spend 20% of their day talking stuff through to customers, time which isn’t billed. Then another chunk of the day changing a bulb or wiper blade for those who just turn up needing help, often elderly, and again no charge.
So there are good guys around. None of this, however, excuses others in the trade taking advantage of the ignorant or helpless.
For all my other cars and MOTs, I use the local garage in my village. Recently taken over by father and son, who used to work there, it is a proper old fashioned garage. They’ve helped me out when I’ve run out of talent, lent me tools, and done the jobs that I just don’t fancy on my driveway.
Culminated last autumn with my old Alfa Spider needing a CV boot for the MOT. But no time to fit in as they were short staffed. However the guys then surprised me with the ‘work for us for a week to clear the back log and we’ll /you’ll do the boot’
I had a week off from my day job (and tbf, have worked on cars since the late 80s so am not a complete novice). They also regularly sign off my work with MOT items they have picked up and I have resolved.
So I did 4 mornings for my cv boot and loved it. They are a local garage doing general servicing and MOTs on their 3 ramps , one of which I got to work from. They don’t want engine rebuilds etc that tie up a ramp for days/weeks.
It was a real eye opener. I’m a car person but not obsessive. But the state of some of the vehicles presented was staggering. 10 yo Yeti, for an oil change. Pulled the filter out and it was coagulated black residue, never seen anything like it. Could begin to guess when last done. Owner says many consider an MOT a service when asked!!
Most interesting was a Tiguan in for pad and disc change. But ns caliper seized. I offered to clean, lubricate etc as I would on mine. Owner just picks up the phone to order a new replacement. It would cost me more in time than a new part. But most importantly, even if I salvage but 6 months later it sticks, it is not worth the hassle from the customer, regardless if he explains the saving.
Father and son both fully trained mechanics but spend 20% of their day talking stuff through to customers, time which isn’t billed. Then another chunk of the day changing a bulb or wiper blade for those who just turn up needing help, often elderly, and again no charge.
So there are good guys around. None of this, however, excuses others in the trade taking advantage of the ignorant or helpless.
NRG1976 said:
^nice post btw
I used to do oil services etc. on my own cars, but whether it’s age or affluence, I just find the oil / fluid type jobs too dirty / messy to do at home and so end up paying more for someone else to do it.
Or electric ‘dipstick’ pump from Amazon £15I used to do oil services etc. on my own cars, but whether it’s age or affluence, I just find the oil / fluid type jobs too dirty / messy to do at home and so end up paying more for someone else to do it.
Sucks out all of the oil
Quality oil + Bosch filter change, £40, done from top of engine, no dicking about under the car, takes 30 mins a year!
10 year old Skoda, not bothered with paperwork
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