£4 - 5k : Fiat Panda 100 v 1 Series v ???
Discussion
Hello.
I have been without a car for some time whilst life got in the way - marriage, house, renovations etc.
Previous cars were all pretty big and powerful: highly modded Impreza, RS6 Avant, E39 M5, 335i touring with Quaife diff, then latterly a Golf Gti DSG.
Somewhat surprisingly I've coped admirably without driving and in fact it's been rather refreshing, however the time has come to get back behind the wheel particularly because I really need to get back out in the hills on the mountain bike.
So, some points:
> £4k budget - could stretch to 5 but would have to be a very good reason for it.
> Preferably something small (london-based) but MUST be able to fit a full suspension bike in the rear with the seats down and ideally only the front wheel removed.
> Ideally be able to also fit roof bars as/when needed
> Cheap to run, insure etc. It will not get a lot of use, so I don't want it to be sitting there costing me a fortune in tax and insurance.
> Something the wife can learn to drive in (this is the least important point
> MUST BE FUN. When I go mountain biking I also obviously get to drive some of the best roads in the UK, as all the best trails are in the mountains. So, is a great opportunity to combine both my favourite things. I've had 4wd, fwd and rwd and while I'd take a powerful rwd over anything, I'm just happy with something with 'nuggety' adjustable handling.
As per the title of the thread, I've narrowed down to these two very different cars. A rev-happy, characterful fwd and a more refined, but arguably less exciting, diesel.
I've already thought through a lot of the pros and cons with each, I just wondered if anybody, particularly past or current owners of either of these cars, had any more constructive feedback or indeed if anybody else had any other suggestions?
Thanks
Ed
I have been without a car for some time whilst life got in the way - marriage, house, renovations etc.
Previous cars were all pretty big and powerful: highly modded Impreza, RS6 Avant, E39 M5, 335i touring with Quaife diff, then latterly a Golf Gti DSG.
Somewhat surprisingly I've coped admirably without driving and in fact it's been rather refreshing, however the time has come to get back behind the wheel particularly because I really need to get back out in the hills on the mountain bike.
So, some points:
> £4k budget - could stretch to 5 but would have to be a very good reason for it.
> Preferably something small (london-based) but MUST be able to fit a full suspension bike in the rear with the seats down and ideally only the front wheel removed.
> Ideally be able to also fit roof bars as/when needed
> Cheap to run, insure etc. It will not get a lot of use, so I don't want it to be sitting there costing me a fortune in tax and insurance.
> Something the wife can learn to drive in (this is the least important point
> MUST BE FUN. When I go mountain biking I also obviously get to drive some of the best roads in the UK, as all the best trails are in the mountains. So, is a great opportunity to combine both my favourite things. I've had 4wd, fwd and rwd and while I'd take a powerful rwd over anything, I'm just happy with something with 'nuggety' adjustable handling.
As per the title of the thread, I've narrowed down to these two very different cars. A rev-happy, characterful fwd and a more refined, but arguably less exciting, diesel.
I've already thought through a lot of the pros and cons with each, I just wondered if anybody, particularly past or current owners of either of these cars, had any more constructive feedback or indeed if anybody else had any other suggestions?
Thanks
Ed
I love Fiats, they are not the steal they used to be but they are fun.
You have to be able to tolerate the bit you order beibg different from the one that arrives when you order spares though. Luckily this has never been terminal for the job in hand on My Fiats, 2 of which have seen us through the last 18 years of shopping and work motoring.
You have to be able to tolerate the bit you order beibg different from the one that arrives when you order spares though. Luckily this has never been terminal for the job in hand on My Fiats, 2 of which have seen us through the last 18 years of shopping and work motoring.
Benbay001 said:
No car is going to be thrashable with a mountain bike rolling around in the back?
Lay the frame across the boot and wedge it in a bit or strap it down with some bungee cords if you're really worried. Vastly preferable to having it dangling off a bike rack. Totally agree with the OP - there's nothing worse than driving to somewhere like Coed y Brenin and not being able to make the most of the roads as well as the trails.Quite a disparate selection in the opening post. I like the Panda 100HP, but I fear it might be a bit meek if you're used to banzai Imprezas and the like. What about an Integra Type R? Bit bigger, admittedly, but hardly vast.
Other thoughts ... Clio 172/182 (remarkably economical when driven gently if running costs are a concern), Suzuki Ignis Sport maybe (going purely on the repuation)?
Enjoyed the Swift Sport, but it's definitely more warm than hot hatch - again I wonder if that would go far enough to hold your interest? The mk2 version is surprisingly civilised and quite cheap to run, though, plus they are quite discreet if you're parking on the street in London.
Another +1 for a Clio 1*2!
Got my mountain bike in (with the front removed) with ease.
Never needed a roof rack but i'm sure you could fit one.
Superbly economical when driven gently (Mid 40's to the gallon is achievable) And mine never really dropped below 30 when pressing on.
In non-cup spec they are very well equipped as standard (A/C, Electric everything, Xenon lights, steering wheel controls, some even had sat nav)
Very cheap to keep going, they do have their faults though. The steering wheels need re-trimming usually after around 80k, the standard exhausts on 182's are made of cheese, most have aftermarket systems fitted now that are just as quiet or loud if wanted. The big timing belt/dephaser service (every 70k iirc) is around £600 at a specialist.
I wouldn't have thought it'd be the easiest thing for the other half to learn in, quite a heavy clutch and probably not cheap to insure for a learner/new driver.
Also worth bearing in mind that 182's dont have a spare wheel as the dual exhausts are routed through where the wheel well would be, 172's dont have this problem.
Essay over...
Got my mountain bike in (with the front removed) with ease.
Never needed a roof rack but i'm sure you could fit one.
Superbly economical when driven gently (Mid 40's to the gallon is achievable) And mine never really dropped below 30 when pressing on.
In non-cup spec they are very well equipped as standard (A/C, Electric everything, Xenon lights, steering wheel controls, some even had sat nav)
Very cheap to keep going, they do have their faults though. The steering wheels need re-trimming usually after around 80k, the standard exhausts on 182's are made of cheese, most have aftermarket systems fitted now that are just as quiet or loud if wanted. The big timing belt/dephaser service (every 70k iirc) is around £600 at a specialist.
I wouldn't have thought it'd be the easiest thing for the other half to learn in, quite a heavy clutch and probably not cheap to insure for a learner/new driver.
Also worth bearing in mind that 182's dont have a spare wheel as the dual exhausts are routed through where the wheel well would be, 172's dont have this problem.
Essay over...
My suggestions that would meet your requirements....
Clio 172 - 182 ( i know it's been suggested but a good all rounder )
R53 Cooper S ( good cars, get a bike in can be thirsty wen driven hard ! )
Mk1 Audi TT 225 ( allot more practical than u'd think with the rear seats down )
Mk1 R32 03-04 ( be high mileage but sound the nuts with the window down in the mountains )
Or.... And this would be really thinking outside the box but go for something like this
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
It wud be a good laugh, ud get a bike in it with the seats down & roof racks fit & they seem to be goin up in value ? Stupid idea maybe but I had to suggest something out there
Clio 172 - 182 ( i know it's been suggested but a good all rounder )
R53 Cooper S ( good cars, get a bike in can be thirsty wen driven hard ! )
Mk1 Audi TT 225 ( allot more practical than u'd think with the rear seats down )
Mk1 R32 03-04 ( be high mileage but sound the nuts with the window down in the mountains )
Or.... And this would be really thinking outside the box but go for something like this
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
It wud be a good laugh, ud get a bike in it with the seats down & roof racks fit & they seem to be goin up in value ? Stupid idea maybe but I had to suggest something out there
Thanks everyone, some interesting suggestions there, I can't believe I hadn't considered Renaultsport!
What are the opinions on the Megane 225?
My only concern is that I'm doing the thing I always do and starting with good intentions and moving further towards performance and therefore higher insurance, running costs, less practical for the other half...
Suzuki Swift Sport however is very interesting - I remember the Evo long term review being very positive so will dig that out. Looks like it will stretch my budget slightly, and I do prefer the look of the little Fiat and also the extra doors. I think at this point it's between the Fiat and the Suzuki. Lot's more Fiat dealers around too. Time for some test drives I think?
No opinions on the 1 series 120d? RWD, good torque, reasonable space, good spec...
What are the opinions on the Megane 225?
My only concern is that I'm doing the thing I always do and starting with good intentions and moving further towards performance and therefore higher insurance, running costs, less practical for the other half...
Suzuki Swift Sport however is very interesting - I remember the Evo long term review being very positive so will dig that out. Looks like it will stretch my budget slightly, and I do prefer the look of the little Fiat and also the extra doors. I think at this point it's between the Fiat and the Suzuki. Lot's more Fiat dealers around too. Time for some test drives I think?
No opinions on the 1 series 120d? RWD, good torque, reasonable space, good spec...
I bought a Fiesta ST or Zetec S which would fulfil your criteria.
I found finding a Panda 100HP was quite hard and the Fiesta had more power and cost less. I also had a hire Panda recently and it was very cheap inside (even by Fiesta standards) and not a great handling car though the gargantuan understeer may be down to the nasty eco tyres on it - though the 100HP may be totally different. It was also quite small.
The Suzuki is a good shout but is less square than the Fiesta and aagin, they are far harder to find and cost more.
The Fiesta has 3 seatbelts in the back which the others don't.
The downsides of the 2 door Fiesta is big doors with little restraint making opening them a challenge so a 4 door may be better but that rules out the sporty variants.
I found finding a Panda 100HP was quite hard and the Fiesta had more power and cost less. I also had a hire Panda recently and it was very cheap inside (even by Fiesta standards) and not a great handling car though the gargantuan understeer may be down to the nasty eco tyres on it - though the 100HP may be totally different. It was also quite small.
The Suzuki is a good shout but is less square than the Fiesta and aagin, they are far harder to find and cost more.
The Fiesta has 3 seatbelts in the back which the others don't.
The downsides of the 2 door Fiesta is big doors with little restraint making opening them a challenge so a 4 door may be better but that rules out the sporty variants.
va1o said:
For £4 - 5k it would be a tired and high mileage example with potential for big repair bills!
Good point - I have vivid recollection of some of my service and repair costs for the 335i and M5! My M5 had a new engine with only weeks to go on my warranty which I recally cost them over £11,000 all-told!LuS1fer said:
I bought a Fiesta ST or Zetec S which would fulfil your criteria.
Hmm hadn't considered that - will look now! Thanks!edcase said:
Another thought was Civic Type R but I don't think I could live with the lack of torque and most have been thrashed.
Leaning towards the Panda 100 at the moment...
A CTR will make a heck of a lot more torque and a Panda does. That's the entire point of iVTEC, it makes high torque at low revs, but allows it to be maintained at high rpm, thus makes high power too.Leaning towards the Panda 100 at the moment...
A CTR makes as much or more low end torque than any other n/a 2.0 petrol does. The only time they appear to lack low end torque is if you compare directly to other 200-220hp solutions, such as larger displacement or forced induction.
Also due to the nature of revs the HP available at 6000rpm+ is significantly higher than that at 2000rpm. This is usually true of most petrol engines, the only difference is the vast difference offered by the CTR by the fact that it exceeds most other 2.0 n/a petrol engines by 30-50hp PEAK.
300bhp/ton said:
A CTR will make a heck of a lot more torque and a Panda does. That's the entire point of iVTEC, it makes high torque at low revs, but allows it to be maintained at high rpm, thus makes high power too.
A CTR makes as much or more low end torque than any other n/a 2.0 petrol does. The only time they appear to lack low end torque is if you compare directly to other 200-220hp solutions, such as larger displacement or forced induction.
Also due to the nature of revs the HP available at 6000rpm+ is significantly higher than that at 2000rpm. This is usually true of most petrol engines, the only difference is the vast difference offered by the CTR by the fact that it exceeds most other 2.0 n/a petrol engines by 30-50hp PEAK.
Yeah, sorry, I didn't really verbalise what I mean properly, I was meaning specifically under the vtec zone around town etc. To be totally fair, I've not driven the CTR either, I was basing my comments on a DC2 Integra.A CTR makes as much or more low end torque than any other n/a 2.0 petrol does. The only time they appear to lack low end torque is if you compare directly to other 200-220hp solutions, such as larger displacement or forced induction.
Also due to the nature of revs the HP available at 6000rpm+ is significantly higher than that at 2000rpm. This is usually true of most petrol engines, the only difference is the vast difference offered by the CTR by the fact that it exceeds most other 2.0 n/a petrol engines by 30-50hp PEAK.
I will definitely look at them, but again I think it's corrupting the low insurance / low running costs side of what I originally intended. Insurance is group 34 versus Panda sub-10!!
LuS1fer said:
I bought a Fiesta ST or Zetec S which would fulfil your criteria.
I found finding a Panda 100HP was quite hard and the Fiesta had more power and cost less. I also had a hire Panda recently and it was very cheap inside (even by Fiesta standards) and not a great handling car though the gargantuan understeer may be down to the nasty eco tyres on it - though the 100HP may be totally different. It was also quite small.
The Suzuki is a good shout but is less square than the Fiesta and aagin, they are far harder to find and cost more.
The Fiesta has 3 seatbelts in the back which the others don't.
The downsides of the 2 door Fiesta is big doors with little restraint making opening them a challenge so a 4 door may be better but that rules out the sporty variants.
Have to say the Fiesta St is looking interesting. Obviously a little more to insure and run but not by a vast margin. What should I look out for - any quirks or reliability issues? I assume many will have been modded in some way or another, so try to find an unmolested example?I found finding a Panda 100HP was quite hard and the Fiesta had more power and cost less. I also had a hire Panda recently and it was very cheap inside (even by Fiesta standards) and not a great handling car though the gargantuan understeer may be down to the nasty eco tyres on it - though the 100HP may be totally different. It was also quite small.
The Suzuki is a good shout but is less square than the Fiesta and aagin, they are far harder to find and cost more.
The Fiesta has 3 seatbelts in the back which the others don't.
The downsides of the 2 door Fiesta is big doors with little restraint making opening them a challenge so a 4 door may be better but that rules out the sporty variants.
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