RE: Glickenhaus to build carbon P4/5 successor
RE: Glickenhaus to build carbon P4/5 successor
Wednesday 2nd July 2014

Glickenhaus to build carbon P4/5 successor

American investment tycoon and car nut to develop own carbonfibre chassis



When stock market moneymaker James "Jim" Glickenhaus announced the Pininfarina-penned Glickenhaus P4/5 back in 2006, it rather stunned a few people.

Including none other than Ferrari boss Luca di Montezemolo. The Prancing Horse is more officious than a regional nightclub bouncer when it comes to controlling its branding, so when di Montezemolo said the car deserved official recognition as a product of Maranello, things got serious.

We're promised a beautiful body for this too
We're promised a beautiful body for this too
A P4/5 Competizione followed racing at the N24 - based on a 430 GT2 due to racing regs, rather than the Enzo underpinnings of the road car - but since then the Glickenhaus trail has gone quiet.

Until now.

By this time next year, Glickenhaus will have made the move to full-on constructor, as the New Yorker is set to build his very own carbonfibre chassis (that's chassis with a "ch"): the SCG 003. And it's quite the refreshing approach.

Unlike the McLaren P1, the LaFerrari and Porsche 918 Spyder , instead of chasing massive performance through increasingly complex technology, Glickenhaus is going old-school, saying, "Could it be that less is really more? That's what our new road car is going to be. Lighter, smaller, simpler and very beautiful."

A carbonfibre backbone is as good a place to start as any if lightness is your goal.

Can we have a beautiful name too?
Can we have a beautiful name too?
Like the P4/5 project, former Pininfarina head of special products Paolo Garella will oversee the project, to be designed and built by Scuderia Cameron Glickenhaus (hence the SCG badging).

"Our goals are similar power-to-weight as my Ferrari P3/4 and something that is a new, forward design where it's three wings are integrated into the form, like a Porsche 959's rear wing.

"I'm calling it the 003 as it's our third one off and it will have three integrated wings. It will be Dino Competizione sized. We're thinking carbonfibre tub, a twin-turbo V6 and a very sexy shape."

So a modern-day Dino that weighs around 810kg with roughly 430hp - sounds like Ambrosia (no, not the custard...) to us; closer to the car the Alfa Romeo 4C should have been.

On the subject of that engine - reportedly 3.5 litres in capacity - twin blowers and six cylinders in a V that can produce around 430hp points towards Ford's American-market Ecoboost engine.

Dino tribute will use a V6 and be c.800kg
Dino tribute will use a V6 and be c.800kg
Of course, some of that total power output could come from a hybrid system, as Glickenhaus has experimented with KERS before on the P4/5 Competizione.

"At the 'ring we were able to make 50 seconds of 50hp by recovering energy. We used GPS to trigger the system for a four-second burst on the next full throttle application after hard braking. Year-on-year we were 15 seconds a lap faster."

However, his desire to go back to basics and assertions that hybrid systems have added more cost and complexity means we're not holding our breath.

We'll know more in due course, before the road and race versions of the SCG 003 make their debuts at the 2015 Geneva Motor Show, after which they'll be packed off to Nurburg for the car's first N24. Lets hope it's ready in time.

SCG 003 vid here.

 

[Sources: Road&Track , p45c.com]

 

Author
Discussion

WCZ

Original Poster:

11,500 posts

223 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all
interesting! what will the front badge be?

Dave Hedgehog

16,322 posts

233 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all
take note ferrari this is how to make a stunning hypercar, not that mess you called laferrari


ManOpener

12,467 posts

198 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all
Dave Hedgehog said:
take note ferrari this is how to make a stunning hypercar, not that mess you called laferrari

Absolute thing of beauty IMO, one of the best looking modern vehicles ever created.

The Competizione was a bit funny looking, too much like a RUF CTR3 at the rear, but the original P4/5 is fantastic.

4a4

213 posts

164 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all
With quite possibly one ofthe most stunning wheel designs ever.

This promises to be good, i hope it doesn't disappoint!

anonymous-user

83 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all
810kg, with a "road based" twin turbo v6? Good luck with that. The car is going to have to be simple to meet that mass target!


Ive

211 posts

198 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all
which mass market?
He build it, 1 single car plus spares, for himself and his personal racing team.
Zero marketing from a product sales standpoint as there is no sale to be done.
Lot's of self-marketing, though. :-)

paranoid airbag

2,679 posts

188 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all
Love it, this is how sports cars should be - using lightness, and hopefully good handling, to keep up with more powerful rivals. Let the M5 and rivals be the fast cars to develop hybrid gubbins etc.

Craikeybaby

12,101 posts

254 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all
paranoid airbag said:
Love it, this is how sports cars should be - using lightness, and hopefully good handling, to keep up with more powerful rivals. Let the M5 and rivals be the fast cars to develop hybrid gubbins etc.
This is exactly my view, simple, light and gorgeous sports cars are what is needed, not hybric technology showcases.

Fantuzzi

3,297 posts

175 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
810kg, with a "road based" twin turbo v6? Good luck with that. The car is going to have to be simple to meet that mass target!
I'm guessing it will be fairly Spartan. So I think it will be that hard, despite the engine weight.

Plus the that CF chassis looks the business, seems like they are minimising any excess materials by having a complete chassis.

EricE

1,945 posts

158 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all
The little picture made it look like the back has a touch of breadvan design in it but in the video it looks like it is just a LMP1-style fin frown

NXXN

111 posts

155 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
810kg, with a "road based" twin turbo v6? Good luck with that. The car is going to have to be simple to meet that mass target!


1000kg with steel tubes.

pagani1

683 posts

231 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all
What fun! Hopefully with a look of a modern Stratos or Dino with a V6. Today's mass market cars apart from the Alfa 4C are too heavy and overloaded with electronics. Apart from ABS, if the car is light then it won't need steering assistance and maybe not servo assisted brakes. Manual 5 or 6 speed box and no electric windows or seats!

Napolis

303 posts

242 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all
Hi

Thanks for comments. It looks like we will be building customer cars as well with the goal to Homologate as a GTLM so that we could race at Le Mans, Sebring and Daytona. The base price will be 2MM euros. The car will be road legal in Europe, The Middle East, Asia and possibly as a "Homebuilt/Kit" in the US and could be RT hand drive if desired. The car will be easily converted from Road to Race and the roll cage will be removable. We will debut at the 2015 Geneva Motor Show and Then race at the Nurburgring and the 24. I'm happy to report that we serious interest customer. I can be reached through p45c.com

Best

RTH

1,059 posts

241 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all
Sounds good.

bnracing

90 posts

203 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all
Craikeybaby said:
This is exactly my view, simple, light and gorgeous sports cars are what is needed, not hybric technology showcases.
I agree simple light weight cars should be the future. But looking at this chassis it's far from simple. It's the most overly complicated chassis I have ever seen. I am sorry but that's fairly poor engineering and design.



Edited by bnracing on Wednesday 2nd July 18:47

anonymous-user

83 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all
NXXN said:
Max_Torque said:
810kg, with a "road based" twin turbo v6? Good luck with that. The car is going to have to be simple to meet that mass target!


1000kg with steel tubes.
Exactly my point! Somewhere you have to find 190kg to loose?? I bet the entire steel tube chassis on that^^ is less than 100kg. So even if you don't fit a chassis at all, you'll be heavier than 810kg............

Napolis

303 posts

242 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all
bnracing said:
Craikeybaby said:
This is exactly my view, simple, light and gorgeous sports cars are what is needed, not hybric technology showcases.
I agree simple light weight cars should be the future. But looking at this chassis it's far from simple. It's the most overly complicated chassis I have ever seen. I am sorry but that's fairly poor engineering and design.



Edited by bnracing on Wednesday 2nd July 18:47
Please do show up at the 24 at The Ring in something you designed and show us how it's done.

The chassis is very lightweight and simple. The Ribs which bolt onto our chassis are time proven superleggera panel fitment (the panels will be CF) that allow very light weight overall construction that is strong enough to take the CFD level of downforce this car will create with low drag. 20 MPH higher VMAX at the Ring with 40 less HP than P 4/5 Competizione. The engine will be semi stressed and the chassis is so strong that the roll cage will be allowed to be unbolted on the road. As we move along we will confirm in a rolling road full scale wind tunnel but when the flag drops at the Ring the BS will stop. (One way or another) Our race engine is not Ford. It will be developed by us and carry SCG branding. Road cars will have several engine choices including a TDIV8 Petrol engine that should give our road version a 1/1 Kilo to HP ratio should one desire. We will race at the Ring in SP-X with a bit of ballast and about 540 HP as dictated by the regulations.

Cheers


Edited by Napolis on Wednesday 2nd July 23:05

Fantuzzi

3,297 posts

175 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all
The aluminium bodied tz3 corsa was 800kg, so I think 890kg will be an easy target for a stripped focused car.

Napolis

303 posts

242 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all
Fantuzzi said:
The aluminium bodied tz3 corsa was 800kg, so I think 890kg will be an easy target for a stripped focused car.
Superleggera

Evo

3,462 posts

283 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all
Dave Hedgehog said:
take note ferrari this is how to make a stunning hypercar, not that mess you called laferrari

Prettiest Ferrari ever made I think.