Replacement flywheel - dual mass or solid?
Discussion
I have a '56 plate Focus TDCI and the clutch is showing signs of slipping at full throttle. The car is just approaching 95k on the clock. The dual mass flywheel will also need replacing, as it's beginning to judder noticeably when switching the engine off.
The local main dealer is quoting over £1300 to replace. The local Halfords Autocentre is quoting £799 using Valeo parts (OEM, they say) or £699 for a solid conversion (also Valeo, I think). The chap at Halfords was singing the praises of the solid kit, stating that he's an ex-Ford main dealer mechanic and has fitted loads to Fords in the past.
Does anyone have any experience of solid flywheel conversions, and are there any negatives?
The local main dealer is quoting over £1300 to replace. The local Halfords Autocentre is quoting £799 using Valeo parts (OEM, they say) or £699 for a solid conversion (also Valeo, I think). The chap at Halfords was singing the praises of the solid kit, stating that he's an ex-Ford main dealer mechanic and has fitted loads to Fords in the past.
Does anyone have any experience of solid flywheel conversions, and are there any negatives?
xRIEx said:
AIUI, a dual mass flywheel is used to reduce vibration; therefore, logic suggests that replacing it with a SMF will increase vibration (and possibly noise and harshness). Clutch operation may be harsher too.
By how much, I have no idea.
^^^^^By how much, I have no idea.
This. It's a bit lumpier than dmf but liveable withable.
Blanchimont said:
chryslerben said:
Blanchimont said:
Both places you've gone too will charge their going rate
Edited for accuracyI get people all the time telling me I charge too much but then again Im still busy!!
robdcfc said:
Blanchimont said:
chryslerben said:
Blanchimont said:
Both places you've gone too will charge their going rate
Edited for accuracyI get people all the time telling me I charge too much but then again Im still busy!!
That's what I'm thinking. Unless their overheads are huge, which of course I do not know.
GroundEffect said:
DMFs are to allow engines to run at lower rpm without causing all sorts of torsionals in to the transmission creating NVH and durability issues.
It'll rattle like a bag of bolts with an SMF.
Would it possibly cause damage to the transmission, or is it just unpleasant NVH?It'll rattle like a bag of bolts with an SMF.
I don't think it'll do any part of the drivetrain any favours, you're putting a ton of vibration back into the system which was deliberately designed out by the use of a DMF. It can only increase stress on other components which weren't designed to deal with those vibrations. It might all be fine, it might not.
Blanchimont said:
Ok, then how can a specialist charge me £580 for a clutch, DMF and concentric slave cylinder for a car that only has 1500 on the roads (so rarer than the focus OP has) and that was using LUK parts.
That's what I'm thinking. Unless their overheads are huge, which of course I do not know.
Have you thought about how much each specialist buys the parts in for, and the amount of profit they want to make? That's what I'm thinking. Unless their overheads are huge, which of course I do not know.
I bet your car shares these components with some other cars on the road.
xRIEx said:
GroundEffect said:
DMFs are to allow engines to run at lower rpm without causing all sorts of torsionals in to the transmission creating NVH and durability issues.
It'll rattle like a bag of bolts with an SMF.
Would it possibly cause damage to the transmission, or is it just unpleasant NVH?It'll rattle like a bag of bolts with an SMF.
If you only plan to keep the car for a few thousand miles, the SMF would be OK. If, however, you plan to keep the car for longer then the DMF is certainly the way to go.
I have heard of Mondeos going to SMF and then lunching gearboxes within 20k.
We sell both at work, clutch and flywheel in LUK which is what will have been put it from factory is about £400, I try and avoid selling solid flywheel kits as they're all stty Chinese copies and have heard of a few causing snapped cranks due to excessive vibrations.
If it was half the price and a old nail then maybe but £100 difference on a decent car I wouldn't even think of using one
If it was half the price and a old nail then maybe but £100 difference on a decent car I wouldn't even think of using one
Blanchimont said:
Both places you've gone too will overcharge. Find a transmission specialist near you, call them for a quote.
I paid £580 for a DMF, CSC and a clutch a year ago and I only paid £580.
Having looked at the parts costs from ECP and GSF, I'm not sure I could do it myself for much less - no that I have the tools or experience! The Halfords quote includes 5.1 hours labour, and for 60% of the main dealer quote using the same parts, I was certainly leaning towards them. I've Googled transmission specialists for my area, but I've not found anything useful. I paid £580 for a DMF, CSC and a clutch a year ago and I only paid £580.
addz86 said:
We sell both at work, clutch and flywheel in LUK which is what will have been put it from factory is about £400, I try and avoid selling solid flywheel kits as they're all stty Chinese copies and have heard of a few causing snapped cranks due to excessive vibrations.
If it was half the price and a old nail then maybe but £100 difference on a decent car I wouldn't even think of using one
Thanks, just missed this as I was typing my reply. I'm definitely going to stick with DMF. Is there any difference between LUK and Valeo in terms of quality?If it was half the price and a old nail then maybe but £100 difference on a decent car I wouldn't even think of using one
The Halfords chap was keen to point out that the Valeo DMF would be brand new, and not a reconditioned part - that hadn't even crossed my mind.
stavers said:
xRIEx said:
GroundEffect said:
DMFs are to allow engines to run at lower rpm without causing all sorts of torsionals in to the transmission creating NVH and durability issues.
It'll rattle like a bag of bolts with an SMF.
Would it possibly cause damage to the transmission, or is it just unpleasant NVH?It'll rattle like a bag of bolts with an SMF.
If you only plan to keep the car for a few thousand miles, the SMF would be OK. If, however, you plan to keep the car for longer then the DMF is certainly the way to go.
I have heard of Mondeos going to SMF and then lunching gearboxes within 20k.
A Ford Engineer said:
It's not particularly to do with feel so much as NVH (gear rattle) and gear tooth stress.
If you have a DMF you can have a smaller (lighter, slicker, faster, cheaper) gearbox than if you don't.
The extrapolation of that is that Ford (et al) once they've fitted a DMF have gone down the cheaper gearbox route and so you would damage it. If you have a DMF you can have a smaller (lighter, slicker, faster, cheaper) gearbox than if you don't.
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