Towing mx5 with an A frame Solo (advice please)

[Bailey93]

I have an mx5 in storage with no tax/mot/insurance, I want to start using it at drift days (dwyb for those of you aware of santa pod drift days).

I don't have a trailer licence but if I'm reading correctly on the .GOV websites, On an A frame the car and frame are classed as a trailer, thus eliminating the need for tax/mot/insurance.

________________________________________________________________________________________

If you attach an A frame to a car in order to tow it with a larger vehicle, the car plus A frame counts as a trailer.

Category B Licence

You can tow trailers up to 750kg MAM maximum authorised mass.

You can also tow larger trailers if the combined trailer and vehicle weight isn’t more than 3500kg

https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/towing-equipmen...
https://www.gov.uk/towing-rules/y/car-or-light-veh...
________________________________________________________________________________________


The mx5 weighs 1050kg with a full tank of fuel
The Mondeo (towing car) weighs 1425kg with a full tank of fuel

Total weight - 2475kg

With my standard cat B licence with no trailer or other entitlements I can tow a trailer as long as the combined weight of both vehicles doesn't exceed 3500kg which I am 1025kg under.

So using an A frame I can legally trailer my MX5 with no Tax/insurance/mot to a track using my mondeo


Tell me I'm wrong (Please don't)

[normalbloke]

You're wrong. One stumbling block, if you're not towing it from a breakdown, and it's an unbraked A frame, it's illegal.

[F18RSC]

You also have to consider the Max Authorised Mass of the two cars.

My Audi A6 Avant is 1.8 tonne but can weigh unto 2.6 tonne.

Its states all the information about MAM on the V5.

[gnc]

i have had an a frame and towed withit, now sold,( im old enough to have trailers on my licence ) its a very grey area, its an unbraked trailer, police will prob not be bothered unless you have an accident , but VOSA would prob take a different approach. prob ilegal on more than a few areas, just have it transported, cheaper in the long run.

[Bailey93]

So a grey area that police are unlikely to question unless im stupid and crash the pair, so not worth the risk

Ive been quoted £134 one way transport. bugger, I might have get it mot'd

[TooMany2cvs]

gnc said:

its a very grey area

Not really...
If a trailer doesn't have brakes on all wheels, automatically operated by the towing vehicle, it has to be under 750kg max laden weight. The only exception to that is emergency recovery, which carries restrictions on speed and distance, and needs the car to be legal but not working.

Whether the Police are bothered or not is a separate issue.

[shakotan]

It's not a grey area, it's illegal, however experience shows that the Police are unlikely to give a fk unless the outfit looks totally shonky. I've been in cars that has been A-framing another vehicle many many times, and Police have been behind, overtaken, and passed in the other direction, and none have ever given the slightest st.

[F18RSC]

Bailey93 said:

So a grey area that police are unlikely to question unless im stupid and crash the pair, so not worth the risk

Ive been quoted £134 one way transport. bugger, I might have get it mot'd

Or do as I am about to and get my +E license and then two it to each and every track day!

[Wild Rumpus]

It can be done legally, if you rig up a braking head on the A-Frame and connect it to the brakes on the towed car. I've seen it done on a beach-buggy where a Bowden cable was joined to the brake pedal. The cable attached with a clevis so it could be detached when the buggy was driving on its own. It would be quite a lot of work, but car transporter trailers are expensive....

[xstian]

When ever I read a thread about A-Frames and Towing dollies, It always makes me think of this clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhBpdZoB5Oc

[threespires]

Something that I've looked into, not towing my MX-5 but using my MX-5 to tow my classic car using an A frame.
As mentioned above, it's a gray area and the law doesn't seem to be specific, but the main stumbling block would seem to be the lack of braking on the 'trailer' which in this case is your car.

[Batfink]

technically illegal but i've never been stopped when towing a car on an a-frame.
The other issue you will most likely have is the ride height of the MX5. You will probably need to remove your front bumper or you will risk pulling it off. Personally I would get a trailer if you are planning on towing frequently

[TooMany2cvs]

threespires said:

Something that I've looked into, not towing my MX-5 but using my MX-5 to tow my classic car using an A frame.

Would an MX5 be type-approved for towing? If not, it'd have to be a pre-98 one, because anything after that has to have a type-approved bar. Before that, you might have fun'n'games with lack of a GTW.

[R0G]

Bailey93 said:

I have an mx5 in storage with no tax/mot/insurance, I want to start using it at drift days (dwyb for those of you aware of santa pod drift days).

I don't have a trailer licence but if I'm reading correctly on the .GOV websites, On an A frame the car and frame are classed as a trailer, thus eliminating the need for tax/mot/insurance.

________________________________________________________________________________________

If you attach an A frame to a car in order to tow it with a larger vehicle, the car plus A frame counts as a trailer.

Category B Licence

You can tow trailers up to 750kg MAM maximum authorised mass.

You can also tow larger trailers if the combined trailer and vehicle weight isn’t more than 3500kg

https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/towing-equipmen...
https://www.gov.uk/towing-rules/y/car-or-light-veh...
________________________________________________________________________________________


The mx5 weighs 1050kg with a full tank of fuel
The Mondeo (towing car) weighs 1425kg with a full tank of fuel

Total weight - 2475kg

With my standard cat B licence with no trailer or other entitlements I can tow a trailer as long as the combined weight of both vehicles doesn't exceed 3500kg which I am 1025kg under.

So using an A frame I can legally trailer my MX5 with no Tax/insurance/mot to a track using my mondeo


Tell me I'm wrong (Please don't)

A frame aside - you are going on actual weights for your calculation on the B towing laws when you need to go on the plated weights

The plated GVW of the towing vehicle added to the plated weight of what you are towing must not total more than 3500 kg for B licence towing


Another current thread on towing dolly etc = http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[Bailey93]

Wild Rumpus said:

It can be done legally, if you rig up a braking head on the A-Frame and connect it to the brakes on the towed car. I've seen it done on a beach-buggy where a Bowden cable was joined to the brake pedal. The cable attached with a clevis so it could be detached when the buggy was driving on its own. It would be quite a lot of work, but car transporter trailers are expensive....

do you have any more info on this?

[shakotan]

Bailey93 said:

Wild Rumpus said:

It can be done legally, if you rig up a braking head on the A-Frame and connect it to the brakes on the towed car. I've seen it done on a beach-buggy where a Bowden cable was joined to the brake pedal. The cable attached with a clevis so it could be detached when the buggy was driving on its own. It would be quite a lot of work, but car transporter trailers are expensive....

do you have any more info on this?

You'll stil need a towing license, regardless.

[V8RX7]

threespires said:

Something that I've looked into, not towing my MX-5 but using my MX-5 to tow my classic car using an A frame.
As mentioned above, it's a gray area and the law doesn't seem to be specific, but the main stumbling block would seem to be the lack of braking on the 'trailer' which in this case is your car.

It's not a grey area at all.

Does it have a MAM above 750kg - if yes it has to be braked.

You can get braked towing dollies and you can get braking kits for A frames.

However I agree that I regularly see people illegally towing on A frames, equally I see people speeding and on the phone daily too.

[Weirdhead]

xstian said:

When ever I read a thread about A-Frames and Towing dollies, It always makes me think of this clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhBpdZoB5Oc

What a cocksocket

Also, those wheels look horrid on that merc. All in all both sides come out miserably

[R0G]

If any wheel of the vehicle being towed is on the road then that towed vehicle must be fully legal to be on the road

If the GVW plate on the towed vehicle is more than 750kg then it must be braked

If the above is complied with and the towing vehicle has a GVW of say 1800kg and the towed vehicle has say a GVW of 1800kg then that makes a total of 3600 which is 100 over the B licence towing limit so need a B+E licence

I doubt the OP can comply with all that

This is where a car transporter trailer can be useful for B licence towing depending on weights ....
Example -
Towing car GVW 1900
Towing capacity 1600
Car transporter trailer MAM 1600
Trailer empty 400
Actual weight of car to be carried 1200
That is a legal example for B towing

[Wild Rumpus]

Bailey93 said:

Wild Rumpus said:

It can be done legally, if you rig up a braking head on the A-Frame and connect it to the brakes on the towed car. I've seen it done on a beach-buggy where a Bowden cable was joined to the brake pedal. The cable attached with a clevis so it could be detached when the buggy was driving on its own. It would be quite a lot of work, but car transporter trailers are expensive....

do you have any more info on this?

Not much, the boys from Volksmagic had done it on one of their beach buggies.