Car prices - inflating as expected?
Discussion
Cars becoming more expensive clearly isn't a new thing but I have to say, I can't recall a time in my 25yrs of motoring that even relatively normal cars feel massively out of touch.
Now, M cars are never cheap but those prices seem......strong to say the least.
Is this just a typical reaction of getting older or are prices higher than they have ever been?
Now, M cars are never cheap but those prices seem......strong to say the least.
Is this just a typical reaction of getting older or are prices higher than they have ever been?
I think they just over inflate prices to make the lease deals more attractive...
E.g...
So £1500 a month, or less if you shopped around.
Not many will have £120k in the bank but if you are that desperate for the latest all singing all dancing BMW, then once you take in to account company car tax benefits, it becomes a lot more "doable". You'd still be bonkers to spend that much renting a car though.
E.g...
So £1500 a month, or less if you shopped around.
Not many will have £120k in the bank but if you are that desperate for the latest all singing all dancing BMW, then once you take in to account company car tax benefits, it becomes a lot more "doable". You'd still be bonkers to spend that much renting a car though.
TheFungle said:
Cars becoming more expensive clearly isn't a new thing but I have to say, I can't recall a time in my 25yrs of motoring that even relatively normal cars feel massively out of touch.
Now, M cars are never cheap but those prices seem......strong to say the least.
Is this just a typical reaction of getting older or are prices higher than they have ever been?
Those are not relatively normal cars you've quoted and they appear to be "normal" within the context of top end M badged luxury cars. Now, M cars are never cheap but those prices seem......strong to say the least.
Is this just a typical reaction of getting older or are prices higher than they have ever been?
FIVE years ago, BMW M760Li started FROM £132,310
https://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/7-series/18810/bmw-m760-...
SIX years ago, BMW X5M was £90,170
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/bmw/bmw-...
The issue like many aspects of life in the UK is that "real" wages have been stagnant for many years now, and that's why this country feels even more expensive than it would have been had wages risen at a decent rate. A lot of people don't just feel poorer but ARE poorer than years gone by.
"The OBR’s weaker forecast for pay means that real wages are now not expected to return to their 2008 level until 2027."
https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/press-release...
Personally, I'm glad I left the security of a job many years ago and started my own business.
You don't even need to go that far back to see that prices have definitely increased a fair whack.
The F95 X5M competition was available from £110,610 in 2020 and the same car (albeit the LCI/facelift) is now available from £126,610.
The F90 M5 competition was available from £96,230 in 2018 and the same car (albeit the LCI/facelift) is now available from £111,220.
I don't think it's much of a problem and I am sure discounts will be offered if people are not prepared to pay it.
The F95 X5M competition was available from £110,610 in 2020 and the same car (albeit the LCI/facelift) is now available from £126,610.
The F90 M5 competition was available from £96,230 in 2018 and the same car (albeit the LCI/facelift) is now available from £111,220.
I don't think it's much of a problem and I am sure discounts will be offered if people are not prepared to pay it.
"relatively normal cars feel massively out of touch" - BMW M cars! Only on PistonHeads could these be considered 'relatively normal' cars.
However, actual normal cars, such as Corsa, Focus, Golf, A3, etc. have also increased in price at a rate well above inflation. As already suggested, the number of cars PCP'd or leased has enabled manufacturers to hide these large price increases.
However, actual normal cars, such as Corsa, Focus, Golf, A3, etc. have also increased in price at a rate well above inflation. As already suggested, the number of cars PCP'd or leased has enabled manufacturers to hide these large price increases.
Glosphil said:
"relatively normal cars feel massively out of touch" - BMW M cars! Only on PistonHeads could these be considered 'relatively normal' cars.
However, actual normal cars, such as Corsa, Focus, Golf, A3, etc. have also increased in price at a rate well above inflation. As already suggested, the number of cars PCP'd or leased has enabled manufacturers to hide these large price increases.
If you'd asked me several years ago if I could have afforded an M3 as an aspirational purchase I would have said yes.However, actual normal cars, such as Corsa, Focus, Golf, A3, etc. have also increased in price at a rate well above inflation. As already suggested, the number of cars PCP'd or leased has enabled manufacturers to hide these large price increases.
As a 40-ish year old with a modest mortgage, no kids and a salary that I'm neither ashamed or boastful about it's something I could have considered.
At current prices there is no way I'd even bother considering it.
TheFungle said:
If you'd asked me several years ago if I could have afforded an M3 as an aspirational purchase I would have said yes.
As a 40-ish year old with a modest mortgage, no kids and a salary that I'm neither ashamed or boastful about it's something I could have considered.
At current prices there is no way I'd even bother considering it.
Gosh I just had a look, 81 grand for a tarted up 3 series. Madness. I assumed these go for under £60k, maybe less with some discounts. Above this in my mind is 911 money, which is a different league of car.As a 40-ish year old with a modest mortgage, no kids and a salary that I'm neither ashamed or boastful about it's something I could have considered.
At current prices there is no way I'd even bother considering it.
I make low 6 figures, have about £3.5k a monthly slush fund, and I wouldn’t even contemplate spaffing this much on a M3. Depreciation will be mind blowing to start. Who is the target market?
Glosphil said:
"relatively normal cars feel massively out of touch" - BMW M cars! Only on PistonHeads could these be considered 'relatively normal' cars.
However, actual normal cars, such as Corsa, Focus, Golf, A3, etc. have also increased in price at a rate well above inflation. As already suggested, the number of cars PCP'd or leased has enabled manufacturers to hide these large price increases.
M cars are relatively normal and affordable on the used market to be fair. Not that much of premium going from a 440i to an M4, for example. They are mostly driven by young chavvy types in London, so they arent exactly aspirational.However, actual normal cars, such as Corsa, Focus, Golf, A3, etc. have also increased in price at a rate well above inflation. As already suggested, the number of cars PCP'd or leased has enabled manufacturers to hide these large price increases.
There's already a very long discussion going on about this:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
It's quite clear from the discussions and actual results that nobody actually knows.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
It's quite clear from the discussions and actual results that nobody actually knows.
EV something something, chip shortage something something, battery supplies something something.
They will do anything to improve profits for their shareholders and customers will eat up the EV propganda. Although I strongly doubt anyone will have any of them on anything other than a lease.
They will do anything to improve profits for their shareholders and customers will eat up the EV propganda. Although I strongly doubt anyone will have any of them on anything other than a lease.
To show it at a slightly 'lower' level, it's mentioned in this month's CAR magazine.
Cheapest Dacia Sandero (a PH favourite)
2020 £7,995
2021 £9,845
2022 £10,145
2023 £12,995
A lot of 'pretty normal' cars are now well in excess of £100,000 and I've seen tarted-up Defenders at £279,000 which, IMHO, is madness but clearly some think they're good value.
Cheapest Dacia Sandero (a PH favourite)
2020 £7,995
2021 £9,845
2022 £10,145
2023 £12,995
A lot of 'pretty normal' cars are now well in excess of £100,000 and I've seen tarted-up Defenders at £279,000 which, IMHO, is madness but clearly some think they're good value.
I get the impression that with new EV cars, the fuel savings are priced in by the manufacturer. The consumer pays the same per month as they would for an ICE car plus fuel, the fuel companies miss out and the car makers profit even more. Early adopters of BEVs saved a lot of money, but recent buyers are being stung by high purchase prices.
More relevant to the OP though, yes, I also feel that 'average' cars are now far out of reach of 'average' salaries (in the same way people complain about house prices). The problem is, that for a long time cars have been very cheap in the UK compared with the rest of Europe. In the 1990s 'Mondeo man' became 'BMW man', it's just he's now realising he can no longer afford the BMW, but doesn't want a Ford.
Combine the rising interest rates with higher sticker prices, and I think we are going to see far fewer prestige (i.e. German) brands on the roads in the near future. Gone are the £200pcm cheap leases. People need to adjust their expectations accordingly. The fact that the depressed provincial Northern town in which I grew up now has Aston Martin, JLR, Bentley/RR, etc. dealerships meant that cars were, until recently disproportionately cheap.
More relevant to the OP though, yes, I also feel that 'average' cars are now far out of reach of 'average' salaries (in the same way people complain about house prices). The problem is, that for a long time cars have been very cheap in the UK compared with the rest of Europe. In the 1990s 'Mondeo man' became 'BMW man', it's just he's now realising he can no longer afford the BMW, but doesn't want a Ford.
Combine the rising interest rates with higher sticker prices, and I think we are going to see far fewer prestige (i.e. German) brands on the roads in the near future. Gone are the £200pcm cheap leases. People need to adjust their expectations accordingly. The fact that the depressed provincial Northern town in which I grew up now has Aston Martin, JLR, Bentley/RR, etc. dealerships meant that cars were, until recently disproportionately cheap.
Jiebo said:
Gosh I just had a look, 81 grand for a tarted up 3 series. Madness. I assumed these go for under £60k, maybe less with some discounts. Above this in my mind is 911 money, which is a different league of car.
I make low 6 figures, have about £3.5k a monthly slush fund, and I wouldn’t even contemplate spaffing this much on a M3. Depreciation will be mind blowing to start. Who is the target market?
Same target market as 90% of people in the market for a new car - those jumping from one PCP to another, but with a bit more disposable cash on the hip.I make low 6 figures, have about £3.5k a monthly slush fund, and I wouldn’t even contemplate spaffing this much on a M3. Depreciation will be mind blowing to start. Who is the target market?
Jiebo said:
M cars are relatively normal and affordable on the used market to be fair. Not that much of premium going from a 440i to an M4, for example. They are mostly driven by young chavvy types in London, so they arent exactly aspirational.
I feel the same unfortunately. Always hankered after an M3/M4, but in big cities the used models of almost any of the fast M/RS/AMG stuff often has a whiff of the monied roadman init category.I was shocked when I saw an M3 at 100k.
The problem though is that modern cars still depreciate to very low values quite quickly and they still wear out plus have high servicing. My Rangie was over £100k new, it is 8 yrs old and worth about 25% of new and has some big bills and looks a bit scruffy now. A £100k flat would be worth the same or more....cars just do not make any financial sense to own. We just seem to accept high prices and losing lots of money...if it was anything else we would be shouting for compensation or ripping the companies a new one.
The problem though is that modern cars still depreciate to very low values quite quickly and they still wear out plus have high servicing. My Rangie was over £100k new, it is 8 yrs old and worth about 25% of new and has some big bills and looks a bit scruffy now. A £100k flat would be worth the same or more....cars just do not make any financial sense to own. We just seem to accept high prices and losing lots of money...if it was anything else we would be shouting for compensation or ripping the companies a new one.
Vehicle prices will go up if inflation goes up as with most assets.
Having said that interest rates rising mean consumers might think twice about taking out a PCP deal and might bring the prices down.
Basically the £ is worth less than it was a year or two ago so you need more £s to purchase goods.
Having said that interest rates rising mean consumers might think twice about taking out a PCP deal and might bring the prices down.
Basically the £ is worth less than it was a year or two ago so you need more £s to purchase goods.
GolfDragon said:
Vehicle prices will go up if inflation goes up as with most assets.
Having said that interest rates rising mean consumers might think twice about taking out a PCP deal and might bring the prices down.
Basically the £ is worth less than it was a year or two ago so you need more £s to purchase goods.
Pretty sure most car prices have gone up above inflation. Don't follow everything but as mentioned above Dacia have gone up well above inflation across the board. Having said that interest rates rising mean consumers might think twice about taking out a PCP deal and might bring the prices down.
Basically the £ is worth less than it was a year or two ago so you need more £s to purchase goods.
Being the cheapest I guess they had a lot of headroom.
Will be interesting to see if they can follow VAGs model WRT Skoda.
I think it'll be a harder sell as Renault do not hold the same cachet at VW do in the mind of a regular punter.
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