Learning, but only to drive an automatic
Discussion
This weekend my nieces visited - they are aged around 30. One is learning to drive, as is the husband of the other. Both these learners are only learning to drive an automatic: "no point learning a manual because everything will be electric anyway".
Neither is interested in cars, and the niece that's learning is learning in that London, so she finds the busy roads daunting.
Is this a common thing with millennials now, or am I just an old fart already? I pointed out the benefits of learning mechanical sympathy, more control, etc. but they weren't for persuading.
Neither is interested in cars, and the niece that's learning is learning in that London, so she finds the busy roads daunting.
Is this a common thing with millennials now, or am I just an old fart already? I pointed out the benefits of learning mechanical sympathy, more control, etc. but they weren't for persuading.
You'd very much limit your choice of small, exceedingly cheap, 0 no claims, cars if you do that. Instead you'll be hunting for that automatic Micra, or Fiesta... increasing the price and reducing your choice. It's more or less going to be old leaf's and zoe's at the cheap end of the market.
I think they're making their life harder than they think, and a bit too early on to be making their call. My kid has another couple of years before he starts learning and I can't forsee him doing auto only even then, because of the above.
I think they're making their life harder than they think, and a bit too early on to be making their call. My kid has another couple of years before he starts learning and I can't forsee him doing auto only even then, because of the above.
snotrag said:
Theres a long, long time to go before vans and other utility vehicles are all manuals.
An automatic only licence would be extremely problematic in many, many environments.
Do you mean until they are all automatic?An automatic only licence would be extremely problematic in many, many environments.
An automatic-only licence would be problematic for someone like me who loves manuals and likes to do things myself. Buy the vast majority of people don't rent vehicles, and if they did it's a small car when on holiday. If they're only learning in their 30s, then the chances are that they just want to be able to pop to the shops or they have a baby on the way and are finding parenthood sans car a bit difficult. I can't imagine they will ever find that they wish they had learnt in a manual. And if they do find that, they can move to the U.S. where you can learn in any car and then just "figure out" how to "drive stick" later with no competency testing needed.
My 17 year old has just started learning and is at a loss why anyone would want to drive a manual car these days. I've told her she is best learning in a manual because an automatic might be limiting when choosing a first car but I'd probably put her in an EV if I can find a cheap Zoe or similar.
Surely they'll have to scrap the manual/auto licence in the not too distant future? You won't be able to buy a new manual in 5 years time.
Surely they'll have to scrap the manual/auto licence in the not too distant future? You won't be able to buy a new manual in 5 years time.
I think they're right for the longer term, but I don't think we're quite there yet. As above there's not many autos at the cheap end of the market. A quick look on Autotrader for cars up to 10 years old and 100k miles for <£5k within 10 miles of my house finds 101 cars, 3 of which are autos. Up that £10k an 5 years old and a third of them are autos, and £20k and 5 years old it's almost half.
So if your kids are learning now, encourage them to learn manual or bank of mum and dad are going to have to help buy a car
So if your kids are learning now, encourage them to learn manual or bank of mum and dad are going to have to help buy a car
As I understand it your insurance can be higher if you have an auto only license presumably because historically so many people in that category were catastrophically s
t drivers.
Personally I think making any choice that limits future options due to laziness is risible. It also shows a total lack of imagination; sure in the UK everything will be an EV or you can get an auto but I've gone all over the world and the ability to drive some manual turd I've hired for a few quid a day or borrowed has been a gateway to great times.
t drivers.Personally I think making any choice that limits future options due to laziness is risible. It also shows a total lack of imagination; sure in the UK everything will be an EV or you can get an auto but I've gone all over the world and the ability to drive some manual turd I've hired for a few quid a day or borrowed has been a gateway to great times.
Edited by GeniusOfLove on Tuesday 24th June 10:33
phil4 said:
You'd very much limit your choice of small, exceedingly cheap, 0 no claims, cars if you do that. Instead you'll be hunting for that automatic Micra, or Fiesta... increasing the price and reducing your choice. It's more or less going to be old leaf's and zoe's at the cheap end of the market.
I think they're making their life harder than they think, and a bit too early on to be making their call. My kid has another couple of years before he starts learning and I can't forsee him doing auto only even then, because of the above.
I agree with the above. It will be decades before manuals fully disappear from the roads and as stated above for the next 10 years there won t be as many cheap small automatic cars as there will be manuals at that price range.I think they're making their life harder than they think, and a bit too early on to be making their call. My kid has another couple of years before he starts learning and I can't forsee him doing auto only even then, because of the above.
I can see the attraction for young people as a clutch is difficult to master and in 10years time when all you can hire on holiday or buy new is electric then it s a different outcome.
RizzoTheRat said:
I think they're right for the longer term, but I don't think we're quite there yet. As above there's not many autos at the cheap end of the market. A quick look on Autotrader for cars up to 10 years old and 100k miles for <£5k within 10 miles of my house finds 101 cars, 3 of which are autos. Up that £10k an 5 years old and a third of them are autos, and £20k and 5 years old it's almost half.
So if your kids are learning now, encourage them to learn manual or bank of mum and dad are going to have to help buy a car
Yet there are more automatic cars listed on Autotrader than manual. Why limit yourself to within 10 miles of your house? If you find the right car that's an hour's drive away, what difference would that make to your life overall? Nationwide, there are just over 1000 petrol, electric or hybrid automatic cars with up to a 1.4 litre engine under £3000. From Corsas and Jazzes to curios like a Rover Metro. There are loads of options. So if your kids are learning now, encourage them to learn manual or bank of mum and dad are going to have to help buy a car
I'm in the motor trade, yes it is increasingly common. has become more of a thing for the past few years, most younger people have either zero interest in driving but are obtaining their licence because either they have to or are future proofing.
I do see though more and more coming in with parents, struggling to find an auto within their initial budget, plenty of manuals though, we are selling more and more autos new now, particularly with smaller cars but their are hybrid and still expensive as used.
I do think still they are limiting themselves, especially if they need to hire a car in Europe or a van, but like I've said, I think the main issues is the general lack of enthusiasm generally to get behind the wheel so they just want to do it as quickly and easily as possible.
I do see though more and more coming in with parents, struggling to find an auto within their initial budget, plenty of manuals though, we are selling more and more autos new now, particularly with smaller cars but their are hybrid and still expensive as used.
I do think still they are limiting themselves, especially if they need to hire a car in Europe or a van, but like I've said, I think the main issues is the general lack of enthusiasm generally to get behind the wheel so they just want to do it as quickly and easily as possible.
Horbury56 said:
Is this a common thing with millennials now, or am I just an old fart already? I pointed out the benefits of learning mechanical sympathy, more control, etc. but they weren't for persuading.
Yes it's a common thing, and entirely sensible IMO. I can't see my daughter ever driving a manual car (although she's only 11 at the moment so has a bit more time for the transition). I'd say around half of the instructor's cars I see (they use our road for teaching so I see quite a few) are electric now and of course some of the non-EVs will be automatic, so I'd guess around where I live at least 60% of learners in my area are heading for an automatic-only licence.
My guess is that the distinction will be removed at some point within the next decade anyway. Most countries don't have separate licence categories for manuals.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 24th June 10:50
So both my nieces are 30 & 32 now, both did manual licences. Have zero interest in cars. Older one lives in London, no space or need for car so drives her sisters car when visiting Horsham. Her sister, my other niece has always had autos. Now married her hubby and her have 2 hybrids so autos. I can see it becoming more & more common.
I'm old 68 and I'm regarded as special as I can drive (& do) trucks up to 7 1/2 ton on my grandfather rights. So I suspect in a few years manual vs auto will be seen as the same.
I'm old 68 and I'm regarded as special as I can drive (& do) trucks up to 7 1/2 ton on my grandfather rights. So I suspect in a few years manual vs auto will be seen as the same.
RazerSauber said:
Yet there are more automatic cars listed on Autotrader than manual. Why limit yourself to within 10 miles of your house? If you find the right car that's an hour's drive away, what difference would that make to your life overall? Nationwide, there are just over 1000 petrol, electric or hybrid automatic cars with up to a 1.4 litre engine under £3000. From Corsas and Jazzes to curios like a Rover Metro. There are loads of options.
Pretty much every single one of them a turd, those old tiny engine autos are dismal things.Edited by GeniusOfLove on Tuesday 24th June 10:52
Learning to control a clutch and select the right gear is a pretty minor part of learning to drive. I can't see why anyone would want to limit their choice of cars in the short term (if they realise how much of a price premium there is for small automatic cars), even if in 10 years time there most cars on the road are automatics.
A half decent driving instructor will use very quiet roads (even in London there are plenty of those) until a learner's use of the clutch and gears is pretty much instinctive.
With the change to automatics becoming the default car, I think the bigger problem will be the opposite. There will be literally millions of drivers who have never driven an automatic or been shown how to use one. A good proportion of those will be nervous about doing so. Hire companies still usually ask "are you ok with an automatic" if they have to provide an auto when you book a manual.
Most people with an interest in cars have probably driven both or at least have an understanding how automatic gearboxes work, but there will be many more who don't. In my immediate family I can think of three people who have been driving for 20+ years and have never driven an auto. One of those relatives was genuinely surprised when having a lift with me recently and she noticed that they creep forward when left in drive without any feet on the pedals!!
A half decent driving instructor will use very quiet roads (even in London there are plenty of those) until a learner's use of the clutch and gears is pretty much instinctive.
With the change to automatics becoming the default car, I think the bigger problem will be the opposite. There will be literally millions of drivers who have never driven an automatic or been shown how to use one. A good proportion of those will be nervous about doing so. Hire companies still usually ask "are you ok with an automatic" if they have to provide an auto when you book a manual.
Most people with an interest in cars have probably driven both or at least have an understanding how automatic gearboxes work, but there will be many more who don't. In my immediate family I can think of three people who have been driving for 20+ years and have never driven an auto. One of those relatives was genuinely surprised when having a lift with me recently and she noticed that they creep forward when left in drive without any feet on the pedals!!
RazerSauber said:
Yet there are more automatic cars listed on Autotrader than manual.
That's quite interesting. I had to go and double check this because I assumed it would the other way round. You need to go back to >2021 cars before the number of manuals is larger which I guess shows the massive shift in recent years, mostly due to EVs. My kids are still 10+ years away from driving and I doubt they'll ever have the need or desire to drive anything manual.Chris Peacock said:
Horbury56 said:
Is this a common thing with millennials now
Millennials? I'm a millennial and passed my driving test in the late 90s. 
The Fiesta I passed in didn't even have power steering, that would blow the minds of youngsters today.Message Board | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff