What car - almost an open floor for fun suggestions c.£2000

[McSam]

Hi guys,

I hate to add another what car to the mix, but hopefully this is a more interesting one than most as I'm open to a wide selection!

I've driven a 1996 2.6 A4 for two years now, am 20 and finally reasonably insurable, and fancy a change. I have around £2000 to play with, this could stretch to £2500 or maybe maybe even £3k but really I want some reserve, so please keep them as near to £2k as you can get.

So I'm looking for something loosely in these terms:

• "fun"
• quick enough (say, 160-170bhp/ton plus, faster=better)
• reasonably practical - by which I mean I can take humans in the back occasionally, and have some sort of bootspace for weekends away, but negotiable on an otherwise great idea
• rear-wheel drive would be lovely, about time my road car was
• decent kerb appeal. I'm no snob, but I do want to be happy with what I'm arriving in, and to look respectable.
• economy isn't the be-all and end-all. I do 6k a year, I'm a student so it can't be utterly crippling, but don't worry too much.
• can't be silly money to run in terms of parts, essential maintenence, etc - student!
• £2000-2500.

So at the moment, you're all waiting to say MX-5. Frankly, if this isn't the first suggestion in a one-word post, PH has failed itself! I have thought about that, would like something more practical but am still thinking about it.

Really, I want alternatives, and as wide and varied a choice as you can throw at me!

To give you an idea, I like this RX-8, though I am scared of it.

I also love the idea of this Saab 9-5 Aero, less scary for my wallet but would I get bored?

I would love an E46 330ci, but really I expect that car to follow this one, as my budget is the very bottom of the barrel and I'd like to get a proper one.

Have at it!

[McSam]

I should have put in the OP, I'm not that much of a hatchback man, exceptions may be made but after a car like the Audi it seems unlikely.

I did consider E36 328is - I hoped to go newer and more refined, but talk to me about the ride, quality inside and power delivery. Worth it? I understand they are excellent drives.

I feel the MR2 looks a little too dated for what I'm after. Otherwise a great idea, though, and still on the table.

[McSam]

Cotty said:

McSam said:

I did consider E36 328is - I hoped to go newer and more refined, but talk to me about the ride, quality inside and power delivery. Worth it? I understand they are excellent drives.

ok scrap my suggestion.

You know what, your suggestion has got me scratching my chin - a nice idea well delivered. Somehow, I actually see the E30 as a more attractive proposition than an E36. You look less of a knob, for sure, but apart from that they just seem.. Nicer, you know?

However, I do think I'd find it hard explaining going five years backwards in my German saloons, possibly even to myself! Something to consider, as it's a nice blend of dignified and fun, but looking at all these post-2000 Saabs and RX-8s is making me all the more age-conscious. I've never worried about it in the past, but now I am coming round to the trend of newer equalling more solid and nicer to sit in.

[McSam]

Going older has always intrigued me, and I think it's something I'd like to do with a second car. I do enjoy the wood-rimmed steering wheel, chromed knobs on the dash etc. but the early 90s is not the period, we'd need to go way back, further than I feel my budget can stand. I also want to be able to have complete faith in the car - I'm not prejudiced against older stuff but wouldn't want to be relying on, say, a TR7 in a dire emergency!

I think I might've got my criteria a bit lopsided. With how much 9-3 and 9-5 Aeros are tempting me, I think the biggest thing might actually be that it's good-looking and of high quality - seems I'm more vain than I originally realised! Fun can be in many directions. Including turbo barge giggles really what I was thinking with that criteria is that I live near a lot of lanes and while I would often be chilling on the motorway, I'd like to be able to have something that would respond well enough to spirited driving.

Also, like I said in the OP, "practical" only goes so far as some bootspace for suitcases and some rear space for adults.

Like the look of this 9-3 too.. Anyone know what they're like?

[McSam]

Hi BF, how's it going

That's actually a remarkably good idea! I sort of wrote myself out of the E46s because I can't yet afford a 330ci, which is what I really want, but had completely forgotten about the 28i being a much cheaper engine in these. I also kinda disregarded that the saloon is a viable option too, are they really that much cheaper?! I'm gonna toddle off for a look!

I'm also going to have a look at your thread, cheers for the heads-up!





Alfa GTV6 isn't a bad idea at all - I did nearly buy a 156 instead of the Audi! I might keep looking into that, but how sheddy are they going to be at my budget?

The Crack Fox said:

McSam said:

"practical" only goes so far as some bootspace for suitcases and some rear space for adults

?

It's bloody spooky you did that, actually!

I currently have on offer (somewhere 400 miles north of me) an Excel that's been standing for a couple of years, absolutely free. The plan was to bring it down, tidy it up and sell it on - but I have thought about keeping it. However, it's an automatic - surely that would completely kill it off for what I'm looking for?

Also slightly dubious about the reliability, how does that look?

Edited by McSam on Wednesday 28th March 09:52

[McSam]

I think I'm going to look very hard into BMWs of all the forms I hadn't considered. I have to admit I prefer the idea of the E46 to the '36, maybe I'm being daft and should just go drive a '36 but to me it just looks much more dated and last time I was in one, felt it inside too. I could forgive that if it was pant-wettingly excellent to drive, and a useful chunk cheaper than an equivilant E46!

You speak the truth about older equalling easier and cheaper to work on.

Edited by McSam on Wednesday 28th March 09:54

[McSam]

You seem a useful man to listen to, then! Thanks a lot for the info.

I knew about the M50 manifold swap, which is definitely something I'd want to do after a few months with the car, but I presume this is still perfectly possible on the 28i engine as seen in the E46s, like.. this one. Not the finest example I've found but staggering car/money ratio..

Maybe Bork's hit the nail on the head here? We've got something smallish, good to drive, practical, quick enough (especially if you really can see 220bhp from that inlet), not terrible on fuel, and that carries huge kudos.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

[McSam]

I know, open floor does now feel a little misleading it certainly started out that way, as I had vague criteria which I could and would bend, and no idea even what type of car I was looking at! Consider a 9-5, an RX-8 and an MX-5 at the same time and maybe you can see why I said that just now, it turns out that of the suggestions coming forth, some I can really see myself with and some I can't quite.

I thought, had I a few more grand on this, I might just bugger practicality and get a kit car and a £500 luggage-hauling snotter, but perhaps that Dutton isn't for me just yet

I actually considered 924s a while ago, I think that would be a really lovely thing. I hear good things about their longevity and it would be a great car to own, reckon I'd really enjoy it. The problem, and there is always a problem, is that it seems extremely hard to insure one with mainstreams until I turn 21 - which isn't until November. Anything with a Porsche badge seems to give problems in this department. A very nice idea, though.. Could I find a decent classic insurer at my age?

[McSam]

Alright, thanks for the information. I did run a check on the moneysupermarket classic insurance comparison thing, came back answers above four grand, so.. That was helpful

21 is the magic number at which mainstream insurers suddenly stop saying "no" outright - seemingly classic ones too. I would be looking at a quote of £1030 for an E46 328i, which isn't unbearable as I'm halfway through a policy so it would only need a couple of hundred paying, but still.

If I can find a couple of nice 924s (quickly enough that I don't go and impulse-buy a 328i in the meantime ) then I'll make some calls about the insurance. You never know!

[McSam]

Devil2575 said:

McSam said:

I knew about the M50 manifold swap, which is definitely something I'd want to do after a few months with the car, but I presume this is still perfectly possible on the 28i engine as seen in the E46s

It isn't. The M50 manifold swap can only be done on the M52 engine fitted to the E36. The early E46 had the M52TU IIRC and the M50 conversion dosen't fit.

Besides, the early E46s had a problem with the bootfloor/rear subframe parting company. If you want an E46 you should be looking at the 330/325, not the 328/323 IMHO.

Ah, bugger, that's a shame! I'd have to find some more elaborate means of freeing up some horses after a while, then.

I was aware of the rear subframe issue, but I also understood it was a lot rarer than internet exacerbation would have you believe?

As regards the decision between E36 and E46, I really do think that after two years with a '96 A4, either is going to be a fantastic step up in driving experience, so I don't think I'd miss what I didn't have if I went with the later car. To boot, it's also a lot nicer to look at and sit in and I just feel like I'd be happier spending this kind of money on one. It has to be said, though, if this question were about a track car rather than an everyday, I would be all over E36s, and definitely plan to have one some day the question now becomes whether to go 3-Series or not, rather than which one it should be..

I think I'm well off the RX-8 idea now, seems too much hassle, too much risk and too much fuel.

I love that Series III Jag! Fantastic, and it looks like a really nice example too. I thought about X300s too, I must admit, but I think they're maybe a little too waftastic for my aims, and going older leads me into the whole "I would if I had a daily I could call on in a pinch" thing again. Lovely to look at, though

[McSam]

samdale said:

MK2 MR2. Maybe even a turbo, insurance dependant.

Easily ticks all your boxes as long as you don't need back seats. Even the boot is pretty reasonable.
Hard to find more performance for the money I reckon. 240bhp ish, 5.something to 60. If my maths is right then a turbo is probably around 200bhp/ton as well

Actually, to my embarrassment, it was the Mk2 I was thinking of when I said dated!

I agree that they are definitely serious performance for the money. The only things that worry me are potential costs, as it would be easy to pick one that hadn't been maintained properly, and of course the practicality issue. That's actually another favourite for a second / track car, has been for a while, but I'm not sure I could run one day to day as my only car. Have many done so?

The IS200 is indeed a decent car, but if I was going to sacrifice driving involvement I'd probably get a 9-3 Aero just for the giggle factor.

I think I'm kinda down to hunting for the right E46 328i now.. Partly for the all-round ability, but also for it seeming a safer bet than some. While it seems obvious, isn't a car I'd thought of at all before doing this, so very useful it's been


ETA - Something just occured to me. I see everywhere, after further research, that people say it's not really possible and certainly not easy to put an M50B25 (E36 325i) intake manifold onto the M52TUB28 engine in the E46 328i. I think the E46 325i uses the same manifold which still won't fit, but what about the one on the E46 320i? That engine is M52TUB20, implying it has all the same double-VANOS and other gizmos that the E46 328i's engine has. Would that one fit?

Be handy if it would, because the 320i makes 74bhp/litre, giving a theoretical 207bhp from a 328i.

Edited by McSam on Wednesday 28th March 18:56

[McSam]

samdale said:

Dated? How very dare you
The sort of money you have to spend would get you a really decent {MR2}...

Hehe, sorry! I admit I hadn't looked for a while, but yes, it seems you're right. The only thing is, as I said, I'm not sure I could see myself using one every day. I can feel my own bloody thread title mocking me here, but that's the size of it. However, I am now definitely keeping MR2 Turbos in mind because they too would make a fantastic track car when that time comes in a couple of years - so thanks

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I really was very excited about them, and I know there's a lot of possibilities if something does go wrong - the problem is, that as I don't have any sizeable sort of steady income, the car would be bought "as is" with a few hundred quid for emergencies but no big saved fund kept behind. That strikes me as a risky proposition for an RX, and then there is the catastrophic fuel consumption to think of. I'm also coming to doubt how well I'd got on with a really insistently revvy nature after a relaxed V6, too. So again, they go in the fantastic second car pile - didn't someone get a £1200 one as a track car or something recently? But I think my mind might just be made up on this one

And thank you, fozzy, for your E36 and general M52 engine info