Do I really need more than 300 BHP?
Discussion
I've been lucky enough to have owned some cars that are recognised as nice driver's cars... My first 200bhp car was a Volvo T4, I enjoyed the turbo lag, you could feel a shove in the back once the turbo kicked in. After that I moved onto a BMW E46 328, the straight six was really smooth, around 200bhp again and fun to drive.
Then I got a Porsche 944 Turbo, around 225bhp... This was lovely, 50/50 weight distribution, great feel and once again, old fashioned turbo lag!
The kids were growing so I moved onto a Mercedes E55 AMG, 5.4 V8. Loads of torque, mad acceleration for such a big car. This was around 350bhp. It was enjoyable but after 18 months I got bored of the auto box, so moved into a BMW E34 M5, 3.8 straight six with manual box and around 340 bhp. The car was getting high mileage so I got a E46 330i for a while, 20,000 miles later a Porsche 996 C2 3.4 beckoned. 300bhp, 6 speed manual, great car. The Porsche was kept for 3 years and in the meantime I ran various things... 2004 Mustang 4.6 V8, Audi 225bhp TT, Jag X type, Jag XJ8, Civic EP3 type R, Subaru Impreza WRX.
Eventually, the 996 went as I needed the garage to house various mk1 Escorts.
I moved to a E46 M3 CSL and did 40,000 miles in it. 355bhp, straight six, fantastic induction noise! Anyway, after that I ended up trying a RX8 and Honda Integra DC5... nice cars but it was time to sample a E92 M3.
Now, this is where I have a problem... 414bhp and 0-60 in under 5 secs. In third gear you can reach silly speeds... The scream of the engine at 8,000 rpm is mesmerising but I don't take it there often due to the speed.
It's too much and I find myself missing the usable power of my former 200bhp cars... I remember a trip in my T4 Volvo where I ragged it home using most of the peak power. I couldn't do that in the M3.
Oh, I forgot, I had a supercharged Exige S2... 220bhp of pure driving nirvana but the sound was deafening!
Now, I have the M3 for sale as I'm using an Elise 111R as a daily. The Elise is 190bhp, weighs 890kgs, 6 speed box, lovely balance. No PAS, no traction control, cheap to service.
My conclusion is I don't need more than 300 bhp anymore... My wife has a Clio RS200... I love driving it...
Is less more? Have we been chasing numbers too much?
My next car will probably be a Fiesta ST or Audi S1... Both around 180-200bhp, small and should give me all that I need.
Then I got a Porsche 944 Turbo, around 225bhp... This was lovely, 50/50 weight distribution, great feel and once again, old fashioned turbo lag!
The kids were growing so I moved onto a Mercedes E55 AMG, 5.4 V8. Loads of torque, mad acceleration for such a big car. This was around 350bhp. It was enjoyable but after 18 months I got bored of the auto box, so moved into a BMW E34 M5, 3.8 straight six with manual box and around 340 bhp. The car was getting high mileage so I got a E46 330i for a while, 20,000 miles later a Porsche 996 C2 3.4 beckoned. 300bhp, 6 speed manual, great car. The Porsche was kept for 3 years and in the meantime I ran various things... 2004 Mustang 4.6 V8, Audi 225bhp TT, Jag X type, Jag XJ8, Civic EP3 type R, Subaru Impreza WRX.
Eventually, the 996 went as I needed the garage to house various mk1 Escorts.
I moved to a E46 M3 CSL and did 40,000 miles in it. 355bhp, straight six, fantastic induction noise! Anyway, after that I ended up trying a RX8 and Honda Integra DC5... nice cars but it was time to sample a E92 M3.
Now, this is where I have a problem... 414bhp and 0-60 in under 5 secs. In third gear you can reach silly speeds... The scream of the engine at 8,000 rpm is mesmerising but I don't take it there often due to the speed.
It's too much and I find myself missing the usable power of my former 200bhp cars... I remember a trip in my T4 Volvo where I ragged it home using most of the peak power. I couldn't do that in the M3.
Oh, I forgot, I had a supercharged Exige S2... 220bhp of pure driving nirvana but the sound was deafening!
Now, I have the M3 for sale as I'm using an Elise 111R as a daily. The Elise is 190bhp, weighs 890kgs, 6 speed box, lovely balance. No PAS, no traction control, cheap to service.
My conclusion is I don't need more than 300 bhp anymore... My wife has a Clio RS200... I love driving it...
Is less more? Have we been chasing numbers too much?
My next car will probably be a Fiesta ST or Audi S1... Both around 180-200bhp, small and should give me all that I need.
eldar said:
Kind of depends on how you define fun!
I used to have a 2CV, That was fun, driving just about 100% everywhere. You need to read the road to keep momentum. Certainly not fast, but not as slow as you'd imagine.
I'm tempted to run a series of cheap classics to get the fun factor back. My mk1 Escort is loads of fun, although it does have 130bhp.I used to have a 2CV, That was fun, driving just about 100% everywhere. You need to read the road to keep momentum. Certainly not fast, but not as slow as you'd imagine.
Hol said:
Now... Can we hear more about these Escorts, that filled the garage???
Hol, just for you...My first mk1, 1300E, loved it… should never have sold it…
Second mk1, not a genuine Mexico but had all the bits, this had loads of welding done underneath!
Third mk1, with 1800cc Zetec, used to scrape the chassis rails all the time on speed bumps! Spent too much on this and fell out of love with it.
Fifth mk1, genuine RS2000, lovely car, 2.1 pinto with twin 40s and type 9 5 speed box. Prices became stupid so I cashed in.
Sixth Escort, now mk2… 2.0 pinto and the best handling Escort I’ve had, loved it but it wasn’t a mk1! I like the mk1 shape more because my Dad used to have one:-
Fourth and Current Escort, this one’s a keeper, 1700 xflow twin 45s carbs, 130bhp:-
limpsfield said:
I used to have an Elise 111R. The best car I have ever owned. I now have an old Boxster S and a M240i which are both just over 300bhp and I would completely agree with you that you don't need more.
The first fast car I had was a Serra Sapphire Cosworth back in the 90s which had around 220bhp from memory and felt like a rocket ship - admittedly cars were much lighter back then. But with properly fast cars now >500BHP it does all feel a bit top trumps. I like driving quickly as much as the next person but, as much as I love Lamborghinis etc and hope to have one eventually, my old Elise really would do me as one fun car for the rest of my life.
That's how I'm feeling about the 111R... it's doing everything I need. The ECU has been tuned so that the second cam arrives at 5,750 instead of 6,250 so it's more usable. I don't use all the performance most of the time but when I boot it the smile on my face is so wide. I can feel and hear the car working hard. The E92 M3 is too competent... it's like a Rolls Royce after being for a blat in the 111R!The first fast car I had was a Serra Sapphire Cosworth back in the 90s which had around 220bhp from memory and felt like a rocket ship - admittedly cars were much lighter back then. But with properly fast cars now >500BHP it does all feel a bit top trumps. I like driving quickly as much as the next person but, as much as I love Lamborghinis etc and hope to have one eventually, my old Elise really would do me as one fun car for the rest of my life.
TheAngryDog said:
If you're tall then the Twingo will get tiresome. I am 5'10" and wife's is a chore for me to drive long distance in.
It is very noisy at motorway speeds and the gearing is quite short as well.
Thanks for the feedback... I'm a short arse, 5'6" on a good day... I jump in and out of my Elise and I'm used to unrefined cars... old Escorts etc. but I guess a Fiesta ST is a nicer place to be than a Twingo.It is very noisy at motorway speeds and the gearing is quite short as well.
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