When warranty isn’t really warranty?
Discussion
I have a 3 month old Renault traffic with a grand sum of 5000 miles on it now. Today while on the motorway there was a sudden noise and upon pulling over I found the fuel pump protector had ripped off at the front and was dragging on the road. I undid the last remaining fitting which was finger tight and headed to the dealer which is 2 min from home. When I walked into the service section I explained to the guy this cover had just fallen down on the motorway and ripped off... his reply was golden. It wasn’t covered because it had fallen off ! Errr that’s the whole reason it should be covered no ? I didn’t think they designed things to randomly fall off near enough brand new vans.
The worst of it is the fixing points are part of the main fuel tank and so a new fuel tank complete is required in order to be able to fix a new protection cover. Guy at dealership says no, I could have hit a tyre on the motorway ..I didn’t. There are ZERO marks on the cover apart from the fresh scratches from dragging on the road. There is one fixing at the rear which was loose, one on the front which had ripped out and was still attached, and a second on the front totally missing.
From the dirt and witness marks on tank and cover it would appear the front one that’s missing had worked loose and come out at some point, or was never there. The recess is dirty on the cover with no clean sections from contact with the tank. The tank fixing hole again is dirty as if a fixing was either never there or long time missing. The other two fixings have very clear witness marks where they were in contact with the fuel tank as would be expected.
Also the fuel tank protector is higher than most other gubbins under the van so certainly not the first thing to make contact IF anything was hit yet nothing else has any signs of contact. I am super miticlous with my cars and know 100% I have not driven over anything to rip the cover off. From all the marks it appears fixings vibrated loose, wind got under cover on motorway and bobs your uncle. I escalated it with Renault UK but they want to speak to the guy who said no for his opinion, well I doubt he hasn’t changed it since my visit so I expect a ‘computer says no’ situation.
What’s people’s thoughs with the photos below ?
Leading edge with damage faces forwards on van. Fitting at the top right of pic was missing totally and that’s the one which I suspect came out a while back or was never there
Next three photos are off the same fixing on both sides of the cover and then the fuel tank
Missing fixing on fuel tank and dirt inside showing missing for a while or never there
Next three pics are both sides of the other front fixing on the cover and then the matching one on the tank
And now the rear fixing which was still attached but finger tight
A general pic of the tank
And a few of the cover with no marks at all apart from the dragging ones
The worst of it is the fixing points are part of the main fuel tank and so a new fuel tank complete is required in order to be able to fix a new protection cover. Guy at dealership says no, I could have hit a tyre on the motorway ..I didn’t. There are ZERO marks on the cover apart from the fresh scratches from dragging on the road. There is one fixing at the rear which was loose, one on the front which had ripped out and was still attached, and a second on the front totally missing.
From the dirt and witness marks on tank and cover it would appear the front one that’s missing had worked loose and come out at some point, or was never there. The recess is dirty on the cover with no clean sections from contact with the tank. The tank fixing hole again is dirty as if a fixing was either never there or long time missing. The other two fixings have very clear witness marks where they were in contact with the fuel tank as would be expected.
Also the fuel tank protector is higher than most other gubbins under the van so certainly not the first thing to make contact IF anything was hit yet nothing else has any signs of contact. I am super miticlous with my cars and know 100% I have not driven over anything to rip the cover off. From all the marks it appears fixings vibrated loose, wind got under cover on motorway and bobs your uncle. I escalated it with Renault UK but they want to speak to the guy who said no for his opinion, well I doubt he hasn’t changed it since my visit so I expect a ‘computer says no’ situation.
What’s people’s thoughs with the photos below ?
Leading edge with damage faces forwards on van. Fitting at the top right of pic was missing totally and that’s the one which I suspect came out a while back or was never there
Next three photos are off the same fixing on both sides of the cover and then the fuel tank
Missing fixing on fuel tank and dirt inside showing missing for a while or never there
Next three pics are both sides of the other front fixing on the cover and then the matching one on the tank
And now the rear fixing which was still attached but finger tight
A general pic of the tank
And a few of the cover with no marks at all apart from the dragging ones
750turbo said:
Get straight onto Renault Customer Services.
They will almost certainly cover that!
Literally put the phone down to them 10 seconds ago. They will almost certainly cover that!
Not covered because the dealership say the van was all muddy underneath so has clearly been abused !!! When I asked how I should prevent the van from getting dirty underneath and making parts randomly falling off... no answer for that.
Looking at £1500ish for new fuel tank
BAM225 said:
Do you need a new fuel tank? Or just a new cover?
No being annoying, just wondering why you couldnt get a new cover and reattach it to the fuel tank, I've obviously missed something.
New tank, the cover ripped the fixings out the tank which are moulded in. Only way to fix a new cover is to replace the tank too. No being annoying, just wondering why you couldnt get a new cover and reattach it to the fuel tank, I've obviously missed something.
MDMA . said:
I'd be inclined to just bond it back on with some Sikaflex. Hold in position for a day with some Gaffa tape. Looking at the pics, looks very dirty for 3 months old. Have the 5000 miles all been off-road? 
5000 miles of country lanes yes, I only work in rural area’s so usually lots of mud on the roads. I will reply to other comments in a bit but the short of it was the guy who said no did so before even looking at van and said so on the grounds they had never had one come off before. He was the service manager and we didn’t get on from the word go as he said no before I had even explained the situation to him.
The annoying this is I am so pedantic about my cars and van the insinuation that the van has been off-roaded and abused couldn’t be further from reality. That and it’s geh first ever brand new vehicle I’ve ever owned means it’s pampered better than most people ‘s car
valiant said:
Cover looks a bit bashed but relatively intact.
Might be worth saving yourself the aggro and find a way of refitting it.
Cover is totally unmarked apart from road rash today. IF there was an impact enough to rip the fixing from the tank, why is there not even a hairline scratch on the cover itself ? Might be worth saving yourself the aggro and find a way of refitting it.
The remaining fixing was finger tight which I undid on the side of the motorway. I presume the others had worked lose and that’s when wind caught under the cover and ripped it down
Hammer67 said:
Did the Service Advisor do anything other than immediately tell you to go away?
For instance did he, at the very least, consult the dealer warranty manager/controller to ascertain if they had ever encountered previous incidents of this issue? It could be a known issue that is covered. There may be a Technical Bulletin that covers it.
If not then he needs sacking, as I have banged on about on here many times, the dealer is not the decision maker.
What he should have done is to help build a case on your behalf and with some skilful wording such as "fastener failure" as the cause this could well have been authorised by Renault Warranty.
A switched on warranty manager at a dealer, who has a good relationship with the manufacturer warranty dept, should be able to get these sort of issues sorted under warranty, and should be "on the side" of the customer and pro~actively try to get claims through.
In your shoes OP I'd be making an appointment with the dealer service manager and/or DP and asking some awkward questions.
The main one being ~ "Please show me the returned claim from Renault Warranty showing the reasons for refusal."
Ultimately you may not get anywhere but for a £1500 potential repair bill its worth a fight I would have thought.
I’m actually ex motor trade to with roles as Service advisor, Service manager and Workshop manager for Vw and Toyota. In all previous dealerships I’ve worked for this wouldn’t have been questioned as there is zero damage to constitute abuse or imapct. For instance did he, at the very least, consult the dealer warranty manager/controller to ascertain if they had ever encountered previous incidents of this issue? It could be a known issue that is covered. There may be a Technical Bulletin that covers it.
If not then he needs sacking, as I have banged on about on here many times, the dealer is not the decision maker.
What he should have done is to help build a case on your behalf and with some skilful wording such as "fastener failure" as the cause this could well have been authorised by Renault Warranty.
A switched on warranty manager at a dealer, who has a good relationship with the manufacturer warranty dept, should be able to get these sort of issues sorted under warranty, and should be "on the side" of the customer and pro~actively try to get claims through.
In your shoes OP I'd be making an appointment with the dealer service manager and/or DP and asking some awkward questions.
The main one being ~ "Please show me the returned claim from Renault Warranty showing the reasons for refusal."
Ultimately you may not get anywhere but for a £1500 potential repair bill its worth a fight I would have thought.
The guy was service manager and a grade A bell end. We fell out over it and eventually a tech walking passed agreed to put van in workshop and look at it. He too concluded it must be abuse as the under side is very dirty and muddy.. we it’s dirty yes, caked in mud.. no. He couldn’t explain how the missing front fixing has no witness marks of ever touching the tank like there should be, or where the fixed disappeared too.
Zero procedures were followed and Renault UK are backing the dealership because ‘they have to go with what their dealer network says’ . He said I’m welcome to get an independent report , which they won’t cover costs for, or try another dealership and see what they say. Next nearest one is 15 miles away.
eltax91 said:
Gotta be worth the 30 mile round trip surely.
Indeed, next step for me now. Only thing is obviously the underside will get more dirty so any witness marks on the pump to correlate what actually happened will be gone by then, so all I will have is a knackered trim which they will naturally say ‘ you must have ripped it off mate’ 
Hammer67 said:
A laughable procedural and customer relations failure that has potentially lost their employers any chance of any repeat business from the OP. That could run into many thousands of pounds, future van purchases, service or parts sales and any chance of the OP recommending them to anyone.
An utter disaster.
Indeed, we just bought this Sport Nav Bi Turbo 3 months ago which lists at £29k, in March our 2014 plate Trafic Sport was due to be replaced with another identical to mine. Then in Sept our older Trafic was going to be replaced, again with a spec equivalent to mine and then later in the year one more new van for our apprentice who will then be qualified.An utter disaster.
If this is what I will have to deal with there is not a snows hope in hell of another Renault being bought.
So that’s three brand new orders they won’t be getting, will probably by the Vauxhall equivalent or something along those lines.
Gareth79 said:
fastbikes76 said:
If this is what I will have to deal with there is not a snows hope in hell of another Renault being bought.
So that’s three brand new orders they won’t be getting, will probably by the Vauxhall equivalent or something along those lines.
The usual advice here is to ask for the dealer principal, mention the future orders are hanging in the balance on this issue? So that’s three brand new orders they won’t be getting, will probably by the Vauxhall equivalent or something along those lines.
ks and asked for his card which he wouldn’t produce. Then turns out his card says ‘Aftersales Manager’ . I told him he had lied to me claiming he was the DP, to which he replied he was, along with another guy. By the point I was fed up and run out of names to call the tt so got my van back and fked off I’m astounded by the view that as the underside of a van in the middle of winter is dirty, I’m must have been abused ??!!
For starters I live right near an area where 5300 houses are being built. There is heavy machinery that crosses the main road frequently and as such the brown under the van in nothing more than dirty water from the sand they drag across the road. Funny how nothing has fallen off any of our other cars or vans . They then tried to say I mayst have abused and taken the van off road , I’m not sure how many people have tried to drive a fwd van across wet muddy fields, I can’t imagine you would get far though.
As for them doing nothing wrong, quite the opposite, they didn’t do a single thing right when it comes to warranty procedures. It was deemed not warranty by the Aftersales manager with no qualification to say so, and without inspecting the van either. His mind was made up within 30 seconds of me walking I the door based on the fact I had the part in my hand. From that point forwards they closed ranks and stuck to the dirty underside so therefore abused.
For starters I live right near an area where 5300 houses are being built. There is heavy machinery that crosses the main road frequently and as such the brown under the van in nothing more than dirty water from the sand they drag across the road. Funny how nothing has fallen off any of our other cars or vans . They then tried to say I mayst have abused and taken the van off road , I’m not sure how many people have tried to drive a fwd van across wet muddy fields, I can’t imagine you would get far though.
As for them doing nothing wrong, quite the opposite, they didn’t do a single thing right when it comes to warranty procedures. It was deemed not warranty by the Aftersales manager with no qualification to say so, and without inspecting the van either. His mind was made up within 30 seconds of me walking I the door based on the fact I had the part in my hand. From that point forwards they closed ranks and stuck to the dirty underside so therefore abused.
Alucidnation said:
I think the OP may have failed the service advisors 'attitude test'.
Not initially, but certainly after the first 2 minutes when I was dealing with Mr suited and booted chump monkey who said no within 30 seconds because I had the trim in my hand without even looking at it or the van . Well it was in my hand because it fell off, yeah but it’s not covered because the trim was in my hand.... after 2 minutes of going round in circles I decided I wanted someone who actually had a clue. 100% agree /\/\
We used to actively look for any potential warranty work on service cars so it was double bubble for us, get paid by customer for service Work and paid by manufacturer for warranty work at the same time. No ways would something like this be disputed before even looking at the vehicle . This guy was aftersales manager so not even a service advisor with car knowledge.
They still couldn’t explain why the front most fixing is totallly missing and no signs of it being there for some time. Or why there has been sufficient impact to rip the cover and it’s fixings from the main fuel tank yet not make even the slightest mark on the cover or catch anything which sits lower than the cover in its path first. Nor could they justify why they say the fixing were meant to be only finger tight, yet it’s impossible that they could have rattled loose and caused the cover to drop down.
Instead the decision was its down to abuse as the van was dirty underneath and therefor I have been off roading it in. Nothing to do with it being mid winter and me working in rural areas and the blatant lack of witness marks on the cover from the foremost fitting either never being there, or fallen out sometime ago. Either of which would have nothing to do with abuse or dirty roads.
We used to actively look for any potential warranty work on service cars so it was double bubble for us, get paid by customer for service Work and paid by manufacturer for warranty work at the same time. No ways would something like this be disputed before even looking at the vehicle . This guy was aftersales manager so not even a service advisor with car knowledge.
They still couldn’t explain why the front most fixing is totallly missing and no signs of it being there for some time. Or why there has been sufficient impact to rip the cover and it’s fixings from the main fuel tank yet not make even the slightest mark on the cover or catch anything which sits lower than the cover in its path first. Nor could they justify why they say the fixing were meant to be only finger tight, yet it’s impossible that they could have rattled loose and caused the cover to drop down.
Instead the decision was its down to abuse as the van was dirty underneath and therefor I have been off roading it in. Nothing to do with it being mid winter and me working in rural areas and the blatant lack of witness marks on the cover from the foremost fitting either never being there, or fallen out sometime ago. Either of which would have nothing to do with abuse or dirty roads.
So in a plot twist I was sent this by a friend who I’ve been chatting to this about.
Turns out a standard feature on new trafic’s is Grip Xtend traction control which has 3 key features to help with DAILY use. Grip Xtend allows the vehicle to regain traction on lose ground such as sand, MUD and snow.
So by the manufacture’s own admittance the van is in fact capable of being used in mud and even has a specific button to engage for such instances. I did wonder what that button was for, probably should have RTFM
So my claim was rejected due to my van being dirty and muddy underneath and therefore ‘abused’ and yet they are built to be used where you may encounter such instances and have actually added a new fancy traction system to deal with it.
Turns out a standard feature on new trafic’s is Grip Xtend traction control which has 3 key features to help with DAILY use. Grip Xtend allows the vehicle to regain traction on lose ground such as sand, MUD and snow.
So by the manufacture’s own admittance the van is in fact capable of being used in mud and even has a specific button to engage for such instances. I did wonder what that button was for, probably should have RTFM
So my claim was rejected due to my van being dirty and muddy underneath and therefore ‘abused’ and yet they are built to be used where you may encounter such instances and have actually added a new fancy traction system to deal with it.
Well that was dealer number 2 and another big dose of Nope !
Walked into next main dealer making light chat and ensuring I passed the attitude test with flying colours. Explained the cover dropped off on the motorway at speed and that all the clips were only on by two turns of my fingers and the foremost one was totally missing with no signs of being there for some time. Nope, you must hit something really hard to have ripped it off came the reply.
I then said ok, say I did hit something so hard it ripped the fixings out the tank as you suggest, can you explain the lack of impact marks on the cover, No was the reply. When I asked about the clear lack of witness marks on the foremost fitting point showing that’s been missing for a while, he couldn’t explain that . He then said look at the state of it, it’s been hanging down and dragging for ages, well 80mph of downforce on a rough motorway surface was bound to wear the corner away.
So it seems Renault put the onus on you to prove you haven’t damaged something rather than them prove you have ! There is 30cm ground clearance from floor to the cover , yet the from bumper and chin spoiler is only 18cm max off the floor. According to them I have managed to drive over something at least 30cm tall, without hitting the bumper or sills first, without leaving a single scratch or mark at all anywhere, and then impact the cover hard enough to rip the cover fixings off the tank and yet still not leave the slightest tell tale of doing so.
There is this really wild conspiracy I have that perhaps makes more sense to logical people. The foremost fixing vibrated lose, 80mph wind got under the leading edge of the cover and the resultant air brake effect ripped the last two fixings out. I don’t know, maybe I’m just over thinking this
No sign of that fixing holding cover against the tank securely for some time I would guess. Being the main front one that’s where the wind would get under it and rip it down
Walked into next main dealer making light chat and ensuring I passed the attitude test with flying colours. Explained the cover dropped off on the motorway at speed and that all the clips were only on by two turns of my fingers and the foremost one was totally missing with no signs of being there for some time. Nope, you must hit something really hard to have ripped it off came the reply.
I then said ok, say I did hit something so hard it ripped the fixings out the tank as you suggest, can you explain the lack of impact marks on the cover, No was the reply. When I asked about the clear lack of witness marks on the foremost fitting point showing that’s been missing for a while, he couldn’t explain that . He then said look at the state of it, it’s been hanging down and dragging for ages, well 80mph of downforce on a rough motorway surface was bound to wear the corner away.
So it seems Renault put the onus on you to prove you haven’t damaged something rather than them prove you have ! There is 30cm ground clearance from floor to the cover , yet the from bumper and chin spoiler is only 18cm max off the floor. According to them I have managed to drive over something at least 30cm tall, without hitting the bumper or sills first, without leaving a single scratch or mark at all anywhere, and then impact the cover hard enough to rip the cover fixings off the tank and yet still not leave the slightest tell tale of doing so.
There is this really wild conspiracy I have that perhaps makes more sense to logical people. The foremost fixing vibrated lose, 80mph wind got under the leading edge of the cover and the resultant air brake effect ripped the last two fixings out. I don’t know, maybe I’m just over thinking this
No sign of that fixing holding cover against the tank securely for some time I would guess. Being the main front one that’s where the wind would get under it and rip it down
TooMany2cvs said:
ghost83 said:
rscott said:
The fixing point on the tank is damaged.
New cover and bond it on wouldn’t make such a big deal about it tbheltax91 said:
Question: Does the car need the cover?
It'll mainly be an acoustic cover for drive-by noise regs, but if you have issues with anything in the engine bay getting grotted up, warranty might mutter about that.That and the fact they will then turn around and say I’ve been messing with it so not warranty. Can’t win really .
May just stump up for an independent engineer’s report and then whack in a small claims for the repairs and report against Renault UK.
Hammer67 said:
What a load of old conkers.
Short of trawling round every Renault dealer in the world trying to find a proper one, your proposed course of action is probably the only way to get Renault to play ball.
If all else fails could you bond some bolts or studs to the tank and with some nuts and washers refit the cover so it would be removable if need be?
Well I've tried two, and if the standard of 'Master Techs' at those two branches are used as a measure, there isn't a snowballs hope in hell of me finding a sensible dealer. The daft thing is their say is pretty much final, When you escalate to Renault UK, the first thing they do is phone the dealership and speak to the tech for his opinion. They come back and say whatever nonsense the tech told me, and then that's it because they 'have to trust our dealer network'. Short of trawling round every Renault dealer in the world trying to find a proper one, your proposed course of action is probably the only way to get Renault to play ball.
If all else fails could you bond some bolts or studs to the tank and with some nuts and washers refit the cover so it would be removable if need be?
Cant be arsed now, will get a price to fix van, have an engineers report done and then throw in a MCOL against Renault UK directly. They can then fight it at their expense.
I can make some sort of repair if I tried, don't really see why I should have to bodge a 3 month old 30k list van because they cant see reason behind a fixing vibrating loose and causing xyz damage. Instead they would rather run with a 1000 different scenario's each as ludicrous and the next as to how I MUST have hit something bloody hard to rip it off, and not mark the cover, van or anything around it. Go figure
TooMany2cvs said:
Hmmm. You have no contract with Renault UK. You bought the van through the dealer, and your legal remedies are against them.
The dealers are denying the warranty claim on Renault UK's behalf as they don't feel Renault would cover the repair cost if they sent the parts back, well that's the way they have put it to me. Starting a claim will cost me £25 and if nothing else, it will get someone's attention.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff