Why can nobody drive in the snow
Discussion
The sprinkling today was responsible for two accidents on the way to and from Witney today. People just can’t cope with slippery roads it seems?
I watched as one idiot was locked up and sailed over a mini roundabout, luckily nobody to drive into and several others locking wheels braking for traffic.
The obligatory idiot in a Range Rover was flashing drivers out of the way on the A40, presumably this one day in the South East he could show his cars full potential.
We spend how much on driver education and then don’t bother about low grip situations? Winter tyres should be mandatory for these idiots.
Should be fun up north tomorrow
I watched as one idiot was locked up and sailed over a mini roundabout, luckily nobody to drive into and several others locking wheels braking for traffic.
The obligatory idiot in a Range Rover was flashing drivers out of the way on the A40, presumably this one day in the South East he could show his cars full potential.
We spend how much on driver education and then don’t bother about low grip situations? Winter tyres should be mandatory for these idiots.
Should be fun up north tomorrow
300bhp/ton said:
Locked wheels on ABS equipped cars or were they old cars? 
But yes I agree, most cannot drive in the snow. I'm not sure we really spend much on driver training either in the UK. And the test is 100% biased to good conditions and nothing ever going wrong.
Your average Jo has no idea what to do when a car slides and often their first experience of a car sliding is in the snow or when they are being involved in an RTI. Skid pad/pan training should really be part of the driving test.
Driving too fast, no grip with the ABS on/off and locking, no thought to being in a low gear But yes I agree, most cannot drive in the snow. I'm not sure we really spend much on driver training either in the UK. And the test is 100% biased to good conditions and nothing ever going wrong.
Your average Jo has no idea what to do when a car slides and often their first experience of a car sliding is in the snow or when they are being involved in an RTI. Skid pad/pan training should really be part of the driving test.
Totally agree on skid pan training. I think we had three - five days or so last year of snow roads but many more with ice.
Shakermaker said:
Well no, that won't be the case either. Not everyone has to go on a speed awareness course (some of us were well aware how fast we were going when we got caught...) but will have all spent money learning to drive.
As poor as the driving test might be seen as by some, its a damn sight better than most places in the world as far as I can see.
Having seen today some total fAs poor as the driving test might be seen as by some, its a damn sight better than most places in the world as far as I can see.
kwittery with a light dusting I’d say the driving test has some other things to cover 
vikingaero said:
Every year I practice driving in the snow (on winter tyres). In an empty car park I'll accelerate hard several times to gauge the level of grip, I'll corner to assess when the car will slide and I'll slam on the brakes to see when it slides/ABS cuts in. That's it. A simple 5 minute session to remind me where the limits are. It's not boy racer handbrake turns - just low level practice.
Every time it’s icy or snows I’ll dab the brakes to see where the limit is. Then a bit of gas etc. Never going fast just out of the work estate etc. Glad it’s not just me. Now. Give me an empty car park covered in snow and that’s another story I made the mistake of driving to a Caterham club meet once in the snow. The car was around 230HP and shod with 48’s, not commonly known for snow work. Some nasty hills and lots of frozen lumps smashing off the underside. I actually totally lost it at one point down a minor hill and just drifted along, luckily picked up some slush and pulled the front straight, much to the bemusement of others. When I arrived, exhausted and wired it was a bit of a reality check when all the rest of them turned up in 4 x 4’s. To this day I’ve no clue why I did it. It was proof though that anything is possible if you’re careful/lucky.
EazyDuz said:
Op claims to have seen cars locking up their wheels. Sounds like BS to me, ABS is on basically all road worthy cars these days
They lock and release, as there is no grip the car just wafts past it’s stopping point. What you’ve said is part of the problem. People actually believe ABS will save them, probably most don’t even know how to use it, steering straight with their foot buried into the carpet! Welshbeef said:
Because it’s extremely infrequent - no one is taught how to drive in the snow to pass the test.
Not that many all wheel drive cars
Not that many with winter tyres on
What makes OP think he is superior to others in snow driving? Strong position to take vs you try to get home safely
Three years in North America, winters in Ukraine, Russia, Sweden. In the 80’s we still had a good amount of snow in the UK.Not that many all wheel drive cars
Not that many with winter tyres on
What makes OP think he is superior to others in snow driving? Strong position to take vs you try to get home safely
It’s not being superior, it’s paying attention to the conditions.
Skyedriver said:
if all 4 wheels are on ice and they lock, the vehicle thinks it's stopped...ABS doesn't release, driver foot presses harder and harder on the pedal and brakes stay locked.
Watched a large van sliding merrily down the road all 4 locked a few years ago...
Exactly. ABS isn’t great when you have zero grip. I don’t think the average motorist knows the main benefit of it. Watched a large van sliding merrily down the road all 4 locked a few years ago...
Welshbeef said:
It’s vastly more specific winter/snow driving experience than nearly the entire U.K. population
No one is taught how to drive in winter conditions/snow. I’m not sure but I believe learned instructors cancel lessons when it’s snow/heavy snow removing the valuable experience to the learner.
It’s more basic than that. People don’t understand ABS, or what an LSD does, I’ve actually read on PH that people have never felt their ABS kicking in? It really just seems a lot of people don’t care about driving at all? No one is taught how to drive in winter conditions/snow. I’m not sure but I believe learned instructors cancel lessons when it’s snow/heavy snow removing the valuable experience to the learner.
The snow always brings out the driving gods. I was taking it steady up a hill when this winter clad tyre car overtook me. It was funny really as the next bend he was in the ditch. Same thing as a Landy in a ditch, but that was ice.
I actually think a lot can drive ok in snow, slow and steady wins the race. But the winter tyres brigade love the 2 days of snow we get so they can statistics there purchases.
I actually think a lot can drive ok in snow, slow and steady wins the race. But the winter tyres brigade love the 2 days of snow we get so they can statistics there purchases.
Alpinestars said:
Oilchange said:
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
Onehp said:
Maybe take Matts conclusion to heart: "without the right rubber, a 4wd car is just as useless as a 2wd car" ...
I've read some silly comments on here before but this one really takes the biscuit! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atayHQYqA3g&fe...
The video shows that awd on summers is significantly worse than a fwd car with winters. What it doesn’t show is that awd and fwd cars would be equals in that weather.
I would guess some people don't cope very well in snow because it highlights digital use of the major controls. The stabbing on/off of brakes and throttle might just mean an unnecessarily choppy ride in normal conditions, whereas in snow and ice it's the difference between getting and controlling momentum or ringing your insurer from your wall-embedded chariot.
Whilst better tyres for the conditions would provide a bigger margin for error, they wouldn't make up the difference between a 'skilled' driver on ordinary summer tyres and themselves. There's also the risk that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Riding around on winter tyres might have the same effect on people as those who drive SUVs like idiots on snow and ice, falsely believing he laws of physics no longer apply to them.
In an ideal world, we'd all buy winter tyres for winter, have the appropriate understanding and skill to use the tools available to the best potential and snow would no longer cause apocalyptic levels of panic and incompetence, however, we're not in an ideal world...
Whilst better tyres for the conditions would provide a bigger margin for error, they wouldn't make up the difference between a 'skilled' driver on ordinary summer tyres and themselves. There's also the risk that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Riding around on winter tyres might have the same effect on people as those who drive SUVs like idiots on snow and ice, falsely believing he laws of physics no longer apply to them.
In an ideal world, we'd all buy winter tyres for winter, have the appropriate understanding and skill to use the tools available to the best potential and snow would no longer cause apocalyptic levels of panic and incompetence, however, we're not in an ideal world...
The Mad Monk said:
J4CKO said:
macushla said:
Right I’m back and you can all have a go at me. It’s snowed here as per the weather forecasts so I thought I’d go for a drive in my 450bhp RWD car on Pilot Sport 4S tyres.
I didn’t get stuck, I barely had a moment in fact. The traffic was flowing freely, albeit slower than normal but that makes a lot of sense. There was still lots of st driving, no lights, no extended gaps, no forward planning, but nobody crashed or wiped out.
Here’s some death defying photos. I’ve got a video of you alll want to be scared to death
Won’t that be better than a normal 320D with it having an LSD ? just tried my M135i and it moves on snow but can see any incline defeating it.I didn’t get stuck, I barely had a moment in fact. The traffic was flowing freely, albeit slower than normal but that makes a lot of sense. There was still lots of s
t driving, no lights, no extended gaps, no forward planning, but nobody crashed or wiped out. Here’s some death defying photos. I’ve got a video of you alll want to be scared to death
Is that you that has just driven over the footpath?
"He described the conditions on the roads "absolutely horrendous".
"Our biggest trouble has actually been getting to the sites on the
public roads," he said.":
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-55899744
2 years ago, I drove around Iceland in Winter, in a hired Dacia
Duster, through blizzards, on roads where the snow was so deep that
the only way of knowing where the road was was by noting the
fluorescent marker poles at the sides of the road.
This however was easy as I was using snow tyres. Any half-awake
person could have driven around. I enjoyed it.
For light snowfalls like the one above in Yorkshire, what is needed is
winter tyres.
Many in UK don’t even know about different types of tyres.
In increasing order of snow efficiency, they are:
4. Summer tyres (useless on snow)
3. All season tyres (quite good on snow)
2. Un-studded Winter tyres (with sipes - good on snow)
1. Studded Winter tyres (very good, but not needed unless you’ve got
serious snow – and nowhere in the UK has serious snow,
despite the hysteria of the media about what, in relatibve terms, is just a light dusting of snow)
The vast majority of UK drivers use Summer tyres *all year round*. This is excused on the basis that "sure we don’t have that
much snow". Correct, but we do have some snow, and we have plenty of frost, ice and sub 7 degrees conditions, and, in order to cope
with our bizarre year-round use of Summer tyres, we spend millions of
£s on salt, essentially needlessly spreading a toxin. If Winter tyres
were mandatory, you wouldn't need gritters.
This infuriates me, not least as all my cars are very old, and this
ignorance creates a situation whereby, annually, the government does
its level best to rust your car.
Further, Summer tyres don't work properly at temperatures below 7
degrees, that is, above freezing, even when there is no snow or ice.
Despite knowing very little about them, and despite ever having tested
them back to back in snowy conditions with Summer tyres, most UK
drivers I’ve spoken to on this subject confidently will tell you that
“Winter tyres make no real difference”. Like, yeah, you’d know, mate.
Interestingly, Winter tyres are designed to gather a snowy 'in-fill'
in the tread grooves and in the sipe slits, to help with grip on loose
snow. Think about how you create a snowman by rolling a snowball,
bigger and bigger - snow clings to snow, so a covering of snow on the
tyre actually aids grip.
I’ve lived in, and travelled widely thoughout, Germany. Outside a few
areas, the weather is very like ours. Generally, most areas do NOT
have massive snowfalls. And even they mandate Winter tyres between
November and 15 April. Those silly Germans, eh?
The additional outlays are modest. Buy a set of cheap steel wheels
and fit Winter tyres. Go for a narrow width. Hang up
your Summer wheels in a dark dry place. By not using them in Winter,
you’ll double their lifetime anyway. It'll take about half an hour to
fit the Winter tyres every year.
If that much "effort" is too much, just buy all-seasons. They're not
ideal, but they’re still noticeably better than Summer tyres.
As the RAC notes:
“Winter tyres aren’t mandatory in the UK. Only a small percentage of
drivers choose to fit them, many of whom live in more remote areas –
such as the Scottish Highlands. It’s a different story in much of
mainland Europe, though. In Sweden, for instance, winter tyres are
compulsory from the beginning of December to the end of March. And in
Austria, they must be fitted between 1 November and 15 April or you
face a €5,000 fine.”
Essentially, the “chaos” is the result of inexperienced drivers, who
have been conditioned to be terrified, using inappropriate Summer
tyres; and the real problem is top-down widespread ignorance and
denialism about the benefits of using Winter tyres.
My better half is a reasonable driver, but would hardly claim to be a
driving expert. There is a steep hill near where we live. We fit
Winter tyres in Winter. Couple of years ago, approaching the snowy
hill, my wife was driving; we noticed a van and a 4x4 jeep half way
up the hill, spinning, and slewing about. Eventually, they slip-slid
their way back down to a laneway and slid in off the road, and 2 burly
blokes got out, surveying the “nightmarish” conditions and shaking
their heads sadly.
The big men had done their best.
Then, ahem, my better half drove normally up past them, no bother. She
waved politely as she went past the “stranded” motorists, who were
staring at us, open-mouthed. I had a bit of a giggle about that one.
It’d be like saying that “climbing the mountain was a nightmare in my
flip-flops and pyjamas”
Well, doh …
"Our biggest trouble has actually been getting to the sites on the
public roads," he said.":
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-55899744
2 years ago, I drove around Iceland in Winter, in a hired Dacia
Duster, through blizzards, on roads where the snow was so deep that
the only way of knowing where the road was was by noting the
fluorescent marker poles at the sides of the road.
This however was easy as I was using snow tyres. Any half-awake
person could have driven around. I enjoyed it.
For light snowfalls like the one above in Yorkshire, what is needed is
winter tyres.
Many in UK don’t even know about different types of tyres.
In increasing order of snow efficiency, they are:
4. Summer tyres (useless on snow)
3. All season tyres (quite good on snow)
2. Un-studded Winter tyres (with sipes - good on snow)
1. Studded Winter tyres (very good, but not needed unless you’ve got
serious snow – and nowhere in the UK has serious snow,
despite the hysteria of the media about what, in relatibve terms, is just a light dusting of snow)
The vast majority of UK drivers use Summer tyres *all year round*. This is excused on the basis that "sure we don’t have that
much snow". Correct, but we do have some snow, and we have plenty of frost, ice and sub 7 degrees conditions, and, in order to cope
with our bizarre year-round use of Summer tyres, we spend millions of
£s on salt, essentially needlessly spreading a toxin. If Winter tyres
were mandatory, you wouldn't need gritters.
This infuriates me, not least as all my cars are very old, and this
ignorance creates a situation whereby, annually, the government does
its level best to rust your car.
Further, Summer tyres don't work properly at temperatures below 7
degrees, that is, above freezing, even when there is no snow or ice.
Despite knowing very little about them, and despite ever having tested
them back to back in snowy conditions with Summer tyres, most UK
drivers I’ve spoken to on this subject confidently will tell you that
“Winter tyres make no real difference”. Like, yeah, you’d know, mate.
Interestingly, Winter tyres are designed to gather a snowy 'in-fill'
in the tread grooves and in the sipe slits, to help with grip on loose
snow. Think about how you create a snowman by rolling a snowball,
bigger and bigger - snow clings to snow, so a covering of snow on the
tyre actually aids grip.
I’ve lived in, and travelled widely thoughout, Germany. Outside a few
areas, the weather is very like ours. Generally, most areas do NOT
have massive snowfalls. And even they mandate Winter tyres between
November and 15 April. Those silly Germans, eh?
The additional outlays are modest. Buy a set of cheap steel wheels
and fit Winter tyres. Go for a narrow width. Hang up
your Summer wheels in a dark dry place. By not using them in Winter,
you’ll double their lifetime anyway. It'll take about half an hour to
fit the Winter tyres every year.
If that much "effort" is too much, just buy all-seasons. They're not
ideal, but they’re still noticeably better than Summer tyres.
As the RAC notes:
“Winter tyres aren’t mandatory in the UK. Only a small percentage of
drivers choose to fit them, many of whom live in more remote areas –
such as the Scottish Highlands. It’s a different story in much of
mainland Europe, though. In Sweden, for instance, winter tyres are
compulsory from the beginning of December to the end of March. And in
Austria, they must be fitted between 1 November and 15 April or you
face a €5,000 fine.”
Essentially, the “chaos” is the result of inexperienced drivers, who
have been conditioned to be terrified, using inappropriate Summer
tyres; and the real problem is top-down widespread ignorance and
denialism about the benefits of using Winter tyres.
My better half is a reasonable driver, but would hardly claim to be a
driving expert. There is a steep hill near where we live. We fit
Winter tyres in Winter. Couple of years ago, approaching the snowy
hill, my wife was driving; we noticed a van and a 4x4 jeep half way
up the hill, spinning, and slewing about. Eventually, they slip-slid
their way back down to a laneway and slid in off the road, and 2 burly
blokes got out, surveying the “nightmarish” conditions and shaking
their heads sadly.
The big men had done their best.
Then, ahem, my better half drove normally up past them, no bother. She
waved politely as she went past the “stranded” motorists, who were
staring at us, open-mouthed. I had a bit of a giggle about that one.
It’d be like saying that “climbing the mountain was a nightmare in my
flip-flops and pyjamas”
Well, doh …
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