Touchscreens now make sense, bye physical buttons...
Discussion
I never thought I'd type the above thread title!
But in my latest car, a BMW i4, the lack of physical buttons for media and Aircon etc simply no longer causes me any inconvenience.
Chiefly I think it's because a lot of newer cars now learn driver behaviour and do things such as turn on the heated seats and so on to whatever temp and duration you would yourself. Most such cars
Also in car voice assistants are now actually useful and seem to understand English... not to mention increasingly people use car play/android auto which both have near faultless voice control these days.
Anyone else pleasantly surprised by how little of an issue losing physical buttons actually is?
But in my latest car, a BMW i4, the lack of physical buttons for media and Aircon etc simply no longer causes me any inconvenience.
Chiefly I think it's because a lot of newer cars now learn driver behaviour and do things such as turn on the heated seats and so on to whatever temp and duration you would yourself. Most such cars
Also in car voice assistants are now actually useful and seem to understand English... not to mention increasingly people use car play/android auto which both have near faultless voice control these days.
Anyone else pleasantly surprised by how little of an issue losing physical buttons actually is?
JimJobs81 said:
TheDeuce said:
I never thought I'd type the above thread title!
Do you ever find yourself taking your eyes off the road when using the touch screen? But really.. how often do people need to adjust temperature controls? The stuff I used to control manually such as defrost and heated seats is all automatic now. There's no reason I need to adjust the actual temperature - set it at your ideal temp once and forget about it.
But whilst I don't think touchscreen controls are any more dangerous than buttons - providing they're well laid out.. I do think the sheer functionality of modern car infotainment systems can be a distraction. Will this lead to an increase in accidents?.. probably not actually, because collision avoidance safety tech in cars has evolved at the same time as the shift to centralised infotainment systems and screens. That's not to say the temptation to fiddle with settings and apps isn't an issue, but a lot of the time it's probably mitigated by the safety tech.
If I'm 100% honest I do quite often set sat nav destinations whilst driving, but normall on the motorway with the car driving itself.
Weirdly, despite driving many BMW's and always being a fan of the idrive controls as opposed to touch screen,in this latest BMW I do use the touchscreen instead of the idrive controller.
glennjamin said:
Can't stand the screen, you can adjust setting turn a knob without taking eyes off the road. It's like looking at a iPad whilst driving.Getting stupid
That starts to not work given how much there is that can be adjusted on modern cars though. I remember the early noughties Lexus' and S class's, they had a physical button for everything - they ended up like commercial aircraft cockpits! You can see the logic of a central control system.The only major bugbear of that centralisation seems to be people missing physical radio/media and heater controls.. but most people hardly ever need to change those things anyway - if ever given that modern cars have driver profiles in memory.
I will say that I hate the idea of not having a physical volume control - luckily only a handful of cars have dared to give up on that so far, and those that have, are heavily criticised for doing so.
Mr Tidy said:
glennjamin said:
Can't stand the screen, you can adjust setting turn a knob without taking eyes off the road. It's like looking at a iPad whilst driving.Getting stupid
Luckily I don't have a car with a touchscreen as I wouldn't want it!Like you say it is getting stupid. However familiar you are with using a screen it can't be as simple as using a button or turning a knob, and can't be as safe either.
If they are anything like my phone it often takes more than one touch to get it to do what I want!
The breadth of tech and functionality in modern cars has pretty much forced the shift to a central command system.
Sebring440 said:
TheDeuce said:
The breadth of tech and functionality in modern cars has pretty much forced the shift to a central command system.
Are you going to be so supportive when the screen fails after 37 months and the dealer quotes you £3K to repair? And the car is undriveable without the 3K repair?And there's no screens in stock, so your car remains undriveable for the foreseeable?
Electro mechanical devices fail and caused all sorts of irritation to owners of high tech older cars - but the contemporary systems are essentially a computer running on dedicated software, which is extremely stable. Everything that computer controls is modular and via CANBUS which is as reliable as... It gets.
Honestly, it's far more likely a moving component will spoil your fun these days than the 'tech' which is the dash mounted computer.
If it does happen, the actual repair is a new unit - which supply issues aside is a very simple operation. There's no reason such a component should be any scarcer to source than any other on the car.
Joey Deacon said:
Sebring440 said:
Are you going to be so supportive when the screen fails after 37 months and the dealer quotes you £3K to repair? And the car is undriveable without the 3K repair?
And there's no screens in stock, so your car remains undriveable for the foreseeable?
This, or it fails at ten years odl and the car is effictively scrap due to a cheap LCD screen that the dealer wants to charge you £3k for, if it even still available. And it will be coded to the car so no hope of getting one from a scrap car. And there's no screens in stock, so your car remains undriveable for the foreseeable?
My car has physical buttons for the climate, I can adjust the temperature without taking my eyes off the road. I cannot imagine what a faff it must be going through a touch screen menu.
Cars are just becoming big mobile phones, the tech in them means they are obsolete even quicker.
Arguably the ability to remotely update the software has kept cars fresher - the first Tesla model S was sold over a decade ago and they still receive updates and have improved in terms of functionality.
Ten year old car? Here, you can replace the screen and upgrade it at the same time, £300 https://uk.eurostyletuning.com.au/products/wireles...
BenS94 said:
TheDeuce said:
Mr Tidy said:
glennjamin said:
Can't stand the screen, you can adjust setting turn a knob without taking eyes off the road. It's like looking at a iPad whilst driving.Getting stupid
Luckily I don't have a car with a touchscreen as I wouldn't want it!Like you say it is getting stupid. However familiar you are with using a screen it can't be as simple as using a button or turning a knob, and can't be as safe either.
If they are anything like my phone it often takes more than one touch to get it to do what I want!
The breadth of tech and functionality in modern cars has pretty much forced the shift to a central command system.
Isn't that better overall?
Fastdruid said:
Touch screens are fitted for one reason and one reason only.
Cheapness.
It's *FAR* cheaper for a manufacturer to stick in a touch screen than manual controls.
They are cheaper! But that's not the only reason. To make all the connected tech cars have these days useable requires a screen and central computer regardless of whether or not it also controls the heating and stereo etc.Cheapness.
It's *FAR* cheaper for a manufacturer to stick in a touch screen than manual controls.
The path taken is logical and necessary - at least so long as car manufacturers continue to add the tech and functions that their customers generally want.
lancslad58 said:
TheDeuce said:
That starts to not work given how much there is that can be adjusted on modern cars though. I remember the early noughties Lexus' and S class's, they had a physical button for everything - they ended up like commercial aircraft cockpits! You can see the logic of a central control system.
The only major bugbear of that centralisation seems to be people missing physical radio/media and heater controls.. but most people hardly ever need to change those things anyway - if ever given that modern cars have driver profiles in memory.
I will say that I hate the idea of not having a physical volume control - luckily only a handful of cars have dared to give up on that so far, and those that have, are heavily criticised for doing so.
Really ? Come on then ,name me a dozen "modern cars" that have driver proflies other than the seat settings.The only major bugbear of that centralisation seems to be people missing physical radio/media and heater controls.. but most people hardly ever need to change those things anyway - if ever given that modern cars have driver profiles in memory.
I will say that I hate the idea of not having a physical volume control - luckily only a handful of cars have dared to give up on that so far, and those that have, are heavily criticised for doing so.
There was an awkward period where that wasn't the case for some cars... A few stingy manufacturers went ahead for cost saving reasons and didn't implement anything much to make life easier. But most modern cars with big screens and touchscreen controls do have driver profiles.
There's no excuse for any car that can detect a specific key or mobile phone to not have driver profile recognition - it's all just software, it doesn't require any additional hardware.
ETA: specifically to name a dozen cars.... BMW. Or Mercedes. Or Tesla. Or VW. Not collectively, I think most of them can offer a dozen cars alone that set the car up for the driver. I'm sure there are many more. This stuff is so easy now and it's obvious and useful. The days of jumping in your car and finding the other half has ruined everything are passing.
Edited by TheDeuce on Tuesday 5th December 01:17
hemidom said:
Mr E said:
For reference, next time blip the wipers with the button on the left stalk. You’ll notice the wiper controls appear bottom right of the screen.
Use the left steering wheel scroll and you can click left/right to change the setting.
I agree the auto wipers are “indifferent” at best.
A mate just got one as a company car and moaned about this yesterday. Don't think I'll tell him the solution Use the left steering wheel scroll and you can click left/right to change the setting.
I agree the auto wipers are “indifferent” at best.
It hardly seems like progress though, why not just keep that on the stalk? Seems ridiculous you have to flick it to access a menu to change it and look at the screen when you could just rotate or push up the stalk.
Although I understand why car makers in general are moving to central control, I do think Tesla took it a little too far.
Ninja59 said:
"A new study by the UK’s transport research laboratory (TRL) shows that the latest in-vehicle infotainment systems that display smartphone apps on in-car displays impair reaction times behind the wheel more than alcohol and cannabis use"
https://etsc.eu/apple-carplay-and-android-auto-inf...
And also this one which shows an old Volvo doing 4 tasks in 306 metres v a BMW iX that took nearly 1km and an MG taking even longer.
https://etsc.eu/physical-buttons-outperform-touchs...
Reality is driver profiles, voice control solutions are plasters over poorly implemented, overly complex UI problems that should never have existed.
In addition, the highlight of modern anti collision systems to also plaster over poor driving potentially because of these systems is a menace. If anything, I find my mum's XC40 beyond annoying with the safety systems that get scared by the odd parked car and slam on the brakes for no sodding reason (and no it is normal).
I get the need for more functionality but some of it coming out now is nothing more than an utter gimmick that causes the potential for more accidents.
I simply should not have to be forced to use voice control to turn a heated seat on and off because some utter moron did not think I would be driving and placing the menu 3 clicks down was sensible at XX mph.
I can believe some tasks take longer and are more distracting using the touchscreen, but as always that's not the full picture.https://etsc.eu/apple-carplay-and-android-auto-inf...
And also this one which shows an old Volvo doing 4 tasks in 306 metres v a BMW iX that took nearly 1km and an MG taking even longer.
https://etsc.eu/physical-buttons-outperform-touchs...
Reality is driver profiles, voice control solutions are plasters over poorly implemented, overly complex UI problems that should never have existed.
In addition, the highlight of modern anti collision systems to also plaster over poor driving potentially because of these systems is a menace. If anything, I find my mum's XC40 beyond annoying with the safety systems that get scared by the odd parked car and slam on the brakes for no sodding reason (and no it is normal).
I get the need for more functionality but some of it coming out now is nothing more than an utter gimmick that causes the potential for more accidents.
I simply should not have to be forced to use voice control to turn a heated seat on and off because some utter moron did not think I would be driving and placing the menu 3 clicks down was sensible at XX mph.
Edited by Ninja59 on Tuesday 5th December 09:44
Edited by Ninja59 on Tuesday 5th December 09:49
Moving the heated seat control out of the physical world and into software in my car has indeed made it less easy to click on or off - but it's also allowed it become something the car can automatically adjust, and that's actually proven to be very useful and is well implemented.
If it takes me three times longer to adjust the settings on the touchscreen, but I only need to make a manual adjustment one drive in twenty, am I not saving time and being distracted less overall?
I dint know why you post reports concerning the dangers of screens and then go on to advocate buttons over voice control. If I say "hey [car name] turn on the heated seat", I haven't taken my hands of the wheel or my eyes off the road. Back when I had a physical button I did have to move my hand and at least glance at the button to confirm I had pressed it enough times to set the desired heating power.
I do think that some manufacturers are morons in terms of how they have implemented certain features, and I'm not going defend anyone who puts frequently afldjusted settings behind layers of touchscreen menus. But lessons are being learned and implemention of such things is subsequently improving. As is smart functionality which increasingly negates the need for manual operation in the first place.
ATG said:
Having buttons and switches doesn't conflict with automatic adjustment nor does a temperature control button or dial require your eyesight. For example, temp up/down buttons could trigger audible feedback; either voice or just varying the pitch of a tone.
That's all true. But once you have smart automated adjustment doing 90% of the work, why not at that point lose the physical controls? If audible feedback is suitable to provide confirmation of a touch control position, what's wrong with just a spoken command to carry out the same process?
pherlopolus said:
I have just moved to varifocal glasses and have to move my head to do anything touchscreen related (rather than just glance left with just eyes).
I have buttons for the heated seats, but it does stuff on the screen as well which is stupid! I also now don't have a dedicated button to take me back to car play, and have to use the touchscreen!
Using muscle memory to find buttons is much more efficient.
I think my current Skoda will be my last new car
Or buy a new car which doesn't have such a terrible sounding implementation of the tech?I have buttons for the heated seats, but it does stuff on the screen as well which is stupid! I also now don't have a dedicated button to take me back to car play, and have to use the touchscreen!
Using muscle memory to find buttons is much more efficient.
I think my current Skoda will be my last new car
dan98 said:
Physical buttons are going, whether we like it or not.
But why can an iPad be so intuitive and straightforward for even an elderly person to pick up and start using straight away, while trying to get around something like an ID3 be so completely baffling?
It's all very well spending a few weeks getting to know your car's operating system, but many people jump in and out of different cars all the time, and it gets to a point where it's a safety hazard.
They need to sort this mess out - perhaps by adpoting some kind of universal menu layout across brands that's as intuitive as the system whicih everyone is already used to via their phones / tablets.
Car play / android auto is that solution.But why can an iPad be so intuitive and straightforward for even an elderly person to pick up and start using straight away, while trying to get around something like an ID3 be so completely baffling?
It's all very well spending a few weeks getting to know your car's operating system, but many people jump in and out of different cars all the time, and it gets to a point where it's a safety hazard.
They need to sort this mess out - perhaps by adpoting some kind of universal menu layout across brands that's as intuitive as the system whicih everyone is already used to via their phones / tablets.
However, it's early days and not all new cars support either/both and those that do, don't all integrate them in an ideal way.
vikingaero said:
We are an ageing population and you'll find that as you age, your digits will become far less responsive to touch inputs.
True, but already so much can be achieved very easily with voice control that I don't think we're going to find ourselves reliant on using a touchscreen in the future.My entire house is automated via Google home, I control pretty much everything by voice.
JimJobs81 said:
TheDeuce said:
...My entire house is automated via Google home, I control pretty much everything by voice.
What do you find most essential and useful, and how big is your home? As the average UK home is small enough to be able to get up and walk a few steps. Last thing you want is to give any obese people even less reasons to move!
Obviously control of media and music around the house
As I'm driving home I can turn on the oven to heat up, boil the kettle, turn the underfloor heating on..
I can put the house into holiday mode, whereby it will appear lived in whilst we're away
I can make diary appointments, call people, ask for answers to questions, water the plants, send nav instructions to the car.. this spring it will even have the ability to cut the grass, wherever I am in the world.
toon10 said:
TheDeuce said:
True, but already so much can be achieved very easily with voice control that I don't think we're going to find ourselves reliant on using a touchscreen in the future.
My entire house is automated via Google home, I control pretty much everything by voice.
The issue for me is that I've not used any voice control system at home or in any car that works more than 80% of the time. I am from the Northeast but I'm definitely not broad or hard to understand and yet, even if I slow down and pronounce everything perfectly, they still don't work. My entire house is automated via Google home, I control pretty much everything by voice.
"Alexa, what is the best setup for pistols in Modern Warfare 3" ---> "The best skip for modern workmen is Samson Containers".
"Hey Siri, open Spotify" ---> OK, playing organ music from Spotify.
BMW "Navigate to Northumberland Street, Newcastle" ---> OK Navigating to Northampton... FFS!!!
But for very basic instructions 'turn on drivers seat heater' either can understand more than reliably enough.
ATG said:
TheDeuce said:
ATG said:
Having buttons and switches doesn't conflict with automatic adjustment nor does a temperature control button or dial require your eyesight. For example, temp up/down buttons could trigger audible feedback; either voice or just varying the pitch of a tone.
That's all true. But once you have smart automated adjustment doing 90% of the work, why not at that point lose the physical controls? If audible feedback is suitable to provide confirmation of a touch control position, what's wrong with just a spoken command to carry out the same process?
But what's everyone's obsession with needing to constantly fiddle with climate/heating settings? Just set and forget no...?
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