E46 M3 vs 996 911
Discussion
Hi folks,
I have been considering buying myself a M3 for my 25th birthday, which is in April. I probably would have bought it sooner but, the insurance will be nearly £1200 cheaper being 25, an extra year NCB and an extra year driving. I have had my heart set on it for about for the last year. I was planning to spend a maximum of 10k but, I am pretty confident I will be able to pick up a decent one for about £8k. Although tonight I was surprised to find 996's starting at about £12k. So my question is, are the entry level 996's worth the extra over a E46 M3? Also how good are both of these cars? What ever car I buy, will be my everyday car but, I have other cars if I need more practicability so, that isn't really an issue. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
I have been considering buying myself a M3 for my 25th birthday, which is in April. I probably would have bought it sooner but, the insurance will be nearly £1200 cheaper being 25, an extra year NCB and an extra year driving. I have had my heart set on it for about for the last year. I was planning to spend a maximum of 10k but, I am pretty confident I will be able to pick up a decent one for about £8k. Although tonight I was surprised to find 996's starting at about £12k. So my question is, are the entry level 996's worth the extra over a E46 M3? Also how good are both of these cars? What ever car I buy, will be my everyday car but, I have other cars if I need more practicability so, that isn't really an issue. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Welshbeef said:
There are problems with the 996 c2 early ones google it oil leaks etc.
Conversly m3's in general will have been driven harder and they too have issues with big end failure early ones which at the price you quote I guess is the case.
I'd say longer term you will lose less on the 911 and of course the kudos of driving one. Although frankly at 25 having that it's a case of where next ie you will have reached your goal. A 911 turbo or gt3 or rs are better sure but not hugely different in day to day.
Think hard and maybe that Mazda mps might be a better choice for now then three years time step up again
Well ideally I want to be in a F430 by the time I'm 30 and have wanted a R34 GTR since playing Gran Turismo 2. I don't feel a Mazda would be a step up. Only hatchback I would be interested would be a proper lightweight thing, like a Clio 182 or something like that. Although they certainly aren't a 25th birthday present I am interested in. I already have a W203 C320, E39 535, E46 320 and for a track slag, a 4th gen Honda Prelude 2.2 Vtec. I have had other powerful cars like EVO 4 GSR and a chipped and remapped A3 1.8T Quattro to name a couple. So I do think for my 25th, it's about time to go for something properly powerful. Conversly m3's in general will have been driven harder and they too have issues with big end failure early ones which at the price you quote I guess is the case.
I'd say longer term you will lose less on the 911 and of course the kudos of driving one. Although frankly at 25 having that it's a case of where next ie you will have reached your goal. A 911 turbo or gt3 or rs are better sure but not hugely different in day to day.
Think hard and maybe that Mazda mps might be a better choice for now then three years time step up again
Edited by WEHGuy on Sunday 30th January 20:11
Cemesis said:
Hmmm, some interesting replies here. The E46 M3 engine is one of the more reliable engines made. Early ones suffered oil pump issues but they were recalled and fixed. That was a decade ago and its extremely unlikely to be an issue now. Never heard of a VANOS failing on an E46 M3.
I've owned an M3 for a couple of years and its brilliant. I've driven various 996's and never really go on with them. I found the steering far too vauge despite what people say to the contrary and it seems crapt and not as fast as I was expecting.
Bottom price for an M3 right now is £7,500 so I doubt you'll get a 'good one' for £8k and by that I mean whilst it might seem good, it might need tyres and brakes in 5,000 miles which means £1200 being spent.
I'd certainly own an M3 over a 911 as I find it a much better car. I'd also recommend the SMG system over the manual gearbox and the Nav system. I've been 'car shopping' with alot of people who ended up buying an M3 and there is a big different between an early Manual with no Nav and a 2004+ with SMG, Nav, voice recognition and so on. The suspension was altered slightly in 2004 and older cars and I can certainly notice it when I drive one.
If you have £10k to spend though, I'd certainly recommend it. My friend bought my old one and then sold it to another friend (who still has it now). So its been with us from 52k to 92k and in that time its needed a new starter motor and clutch but thats all.
Expect it to chew through rear tyres fairly quickly though and they are pricey.
Thanks for you input. Can you tell me a bit more about the Manual vs SMG? 2 of my cars are autos which are good for wafting about but, I would have thought, in a performance car, it would have to be a manual all the way?I've owned an M3 for a couple of years and its brilliant. I've driven various 996's and never really go on with them. I found the steering far too vauge despite what people say to the contrary and it seems crapt and not as fast as I was expecting.
Bottom price for an M3 right now is £7,500 so I doubt you'll get a 'good one' for £8k and by that I mean whilst it might seem good, it might need tyres and brakes in 5,000 miles which means £1200 being spent.
I'd certainly own an M3 over a 911 as I find it a much better car. I'd also recommend the SMG system over the manual gearbox and the Nav system. I've been 'car shopping' with alot of people who ended up buying an M3 and there is a big different between an early Manual with no Nav and a 2004+ with SMG, Nav, voice recognition and so on. The suspension was altered slightly in 2004 and older cars and I can certainly notice it when I drive one.
If you have £10k to spend though, I'd certainly recommend it. My friend bought my old one and then sold it to another friend (who still has it now). So its been with us from 52k to 92k and in that time its needed a new starter motor and clutch but thats all.
Expect it to chew through rear tyres fairly quickly though and they are pricey.
ETA - What I meant is, a decent one for £8k might be possible because within the next 2 months, petrol is only going to rise so, hopefully big powerful cars are only going to drop in price. Also I don't might waiting for somebody who is desperate for cash and I am more than willing to travel to the other side of the country for the right car at the right price.
Edited by WEHGuy on Sunday 30th January 20:16
Edited by WEHGuy on Sunday 30th January 20:17
Eviltad said:
Before you jump in, make sure you have your eyes open regarding running costs.
Don't stretch to the £12k leaving yourself skint because if something breaks it will probably be a £1k fix.
[/patron]
Well I'm used to running a few cars at a time anyway so, have a good handle on maintenance costs.Don't stretch to the £12k leaving yourself skint because if something breaks it will probably be a £1k fix.
[/patron]
Popeyed said:
Looking to spend £8-10 on a new car at 25, and hoping to be in a F430 by the time you're 30; better get working!
wackojacko said:
I'm going to make a post that'll
be un popular but extremely obvious (to me)
8k will get you a s
t E46 so go for the mother of all E36 's tuned or what ever or a genuine minter for 8k it'll hold it's money far better, or go for an Early boxster S Ignore all the tts that say it's only because you can't afford a 911! It's a cracking motor with a fantastic chassis offering a great driving experience.
Or a 3.0 Z4 I know these may not be to your criteria but hey ..... Give them a second thought
I am not interested in E36's what so ever. I never really thought about boxters but, 2 seats is fine because I have other cars. I may be test drive one of them as well.be un popular but extremely obvious (to me)
8k will get you a s
t E46 so go for the mother of all E36 's tuned or what ever or a genuine minter for 8k it'll hold it's money far better, or go for an Early boxster S Ignore all the tts that say it's only because you can't afford a 911! It's a cracking motor with a fantastic chassis offering a great driving experience.Or a 3.0 Z4 I know these may not be to your criteria but hey ..... Give them a second thought
djohnson said:
I'm going back a few years here however I had a E46 M3 which I replaced with a 996 C4S. Key thoughts are:
- The 911 was much less reliable and cost me much more in maintenance.
- The 911 was an amazing drive on a twisty road, the M3 was a much more rounded car and a better motorway cruiser, it was also very good on a twisty road but not 911 good.
- The 911 attracted more attention (both good and bad).
- I found the ride in my 911 (996 C4S) a bit firm for everyday use.
- The M3 felt like a more quality product in terms of fit and finish.
- The M3 had 4 seats and a useable boot.
- Whilst they’re similar on paper I still maintain that my M3 was the faster straight line car.
- The 911 felt like more of an event to drive.
Heart over head it’d be a 911. Head over heart an M3. (Although I went via a M6 I’m back in a 997 turbo at the moment and loving it. M-cars are amazing but 911s get under your skin).
Thanks for you informed opinion. - The 911 was much less reliable and cost me much more in maintenance.
- The 911 was an amazing drive on a twisty road, the M3 was a much more rounded car and a better motorway cruiser, it was also very good on a twisty road but not 911 good.
- The 911 attracted more attention (both good and bad).
- I found the ride in my 911 (996 C4S) a bit firm for everyday use.
- The M3 felt like a more quality product in terms of fit and finish.
- The M3 had 4 seats and a useable boot.
- Whilst they’re similar on paper I still maintain that my M3 was the faster straight line car.
- The 911 felt like more of an event to drive.
Heart over head it’d be a 911. Head over heart an M3. (Although I went via a M6 I’m back in a 997 turbo at the moment and loving it. M-cars are amazing but 911s get under your skin).
Welshbeef said:
E46 m3's range from £7.5k up to £25k and your budgeting £8k - to get a good one.... I cannot square that circle.
Worn shocks worn bushes worn engine mounts clutch brake discs brake calipers radiator air con condensor brake pipe corrosion gearbox towards the end of it's life timing chain towards the end of it's life vanos towards the end of it's life exhaust wheel bearings gear linkages wiper motor wear fuel filler pipe chaffing stone chips multiple owners cheap tyres in need of a big service.
Then again you could be lucky but buying at the bottom of the Market you have to have an open mind to potential costs in the very near future.
The old saying buy cheap buy twice is very true.
As another said why not buy a totally mint e36 m3 evo you will not lose a penny on it plus it will not ruin you with costs for wear and tear or faults.
Yes I agree with the buy cheap pay twice sentiment. Although you would be surprised with some of the stonking deals I have found over the last few years, by searching the internet, having cash waiting and have been willing to travel to the other side of the country. Worn shocks worn bushes worn engine mounts clutch brake discs brake calipers radiator air con condensor brake pipe corrosion gearbox towards the end of it's life timing chain towards the end of it's life vanos towards the end of it's life exhaust wheel bearings gear linkages wiper motor wear fuel filler pipe chaffing stone chips multiple owners cheap tyres in need of a big service.
Then again you could be lucky but buying at the bottom of the Market you have to have an open mind to potential costs in the very near future.
The old saying buy cheap buy twice is very true.
As another said why not buy a totally mint e36 m3 evo you will not lose a penny on it plus it will not ruin you with costs for wear and tear or faults.
It's not impossible to get a car worth £13000 advertised for £11k for a quick sale and the buyer eventually taking £10k cash if, you come the same day.
TTwiggy said:
I see from your profile that you're in Scotland.
Given that you've got some of the best roads in Britain up there, I'd say stretch the budget and go for a 996 - only I'd also recommend a C4 rather than C2, as I guess those roads can often be wet.
As a letfield choice, how about an Audi S4 (B6 variant)? It won't have the 'pure driving involvement' of the other two, but, point to point, over mixed road conditions, it may be faster than the other two. Also, £11k seems to get a good low(ish) mileage example.
Only Audi I would be interested in would be a B7 RS4 which are £20k. Also if I was spending £20k, it would be on a R34 GTR.Given that you've got some of the best roads in Britain up there, I'd say stretch the budget and go for a 996 - only I'd also recommend a C4 rather than C2, as I guess those roads can often be wet.
As a letfield choice, how about an Audi S4 (B6 variant)? It won't have the 'pure driving involvement' of the other two, but, point to point, over mixed road conditions, it may be faster than the other two. Also, £11k seems to get a good low(ish) mileage example.
stuthemong said:
For all those saying you can't get a good m3 without spending 12K.
...
..
.
http://pistonheads.com/sales/2457865.htm
I doubt many 12K M3's would be a safer bet. In fact, I'd wager no other m3 out there is a safer bet! STONKING value that.
See there are some really good deals to be had, as long as your willing to wait for the right one, have the cash ready and don't mind travelling to the other side of the country. It's not impossible that you could turn up to see how desperate they are for a sale and get it for £9.5k, maybe even £9k. I have managed to get up to 40% off some of my cars in the past....
..
.
http://pistonheads.com/sales/2457865.htm
I doubt many 12K M3's would be a safer bet. In fact, I'd wager no other m3 out there is a safer bet! STONKING value that.
Welshbeef said:
Id say colour is crucial on the 996 & would be interested in upgrading the lenses to the facelift (in theory).
Which 996? Targa, Vert Coupe, Tip C2/C4?
I'm not sure, I haven't really looked into it. I have had my heart set on a M3 but, was extremely surprised to see how cheap 996's are.Which 996? Targa, Vert Coupe, Tip C2/C4?
goldblum said:
Onetrackmind said:
Welshbeef said:
My point was if he was intending on using it as a commuting car then for those times you literally cannot driver faster than flow of traffic and overtaking is impossible due to constant oncoming traffic. As such you will not be wearing them out at a high rate tyres brakes during these periods which will certainly be the highest usage the car gets. Unless it's a second car.
Why is someone suggesting cheppo rubber on this car? £500 a set... You buy the car for the handling tyres are key buy the best michelin pilot sport 3's. Leave those kuhomos etc for the fabia vRS etc owners buy a fast car get the proper kit
They're not cheapo rubber. They're known to be good mid range performance tyres. If you'd driven an M3 with Michelin's then Kumho's you'd know they are good tyres. Compared to Michelins they're 95% as good performance for 50% of the price. Cheapo tyres would be Linglongs or Acceleras and I agree, these aren't suitable. Vredsteins are also meant to be very good. Both Kumhos and Vredsteins are highly regarded on the M3 cutters enthusiasts site. Why is someone suggesting cheppo rubber on this car? £500 a set... You buy the car for the handling tyres are key buy the best michelin pilot sport 3's. Leave those kuhomos etc for the fabia vRS etc owners buy a fast car get the proper kit
around town.More low down torque meant far less gear changes than the M3.
daveco said:
OP I am (luckily) in the same boat. Though I am thinking of saving for another year and going for a 993.
I've wanted an E46 M3 since the September 2000 issue of EVO magazine so I plan to test drive all three.
If I do go for an M3 it will be a post '03 model, to avoid any issues the car had in its first years of production.
Also; if you haven't already driven a 330ci sport do so; I had one before and still miss it. Ultra reliable, 6 seconds to 60, and does about 35mpg (mix of motorway/town driving). The engine is a beaut too.
Although the 330 is a really good car, I want something that is really special. I have managed to stop myself from buying a M3 until I'm 25 so, I can save £1200 on insurance.I've wanted an E46 M3 since the September 2000 issue of EVO magazine so I plan to test drive all three.
If I do go for an M3 it will be a post '03 model, to avoid any issues the car had in its first years of production.
Also; if you haven't already driven a 330ci sport do so; I had one before and still miss it. Ultra reliable, 6 seconds to 60, and does about 35mpg (mix of motorway/town driving). The engine is a beaut too.
Oh well I decided to go with the M3. Maybe get a 911 next year. It was booked in for an inspection today with a BMW specialist and the only thing that came up, is an exhaust bracket will need to be replaced. I'm going to pick it up tomorrow. 
It's a Yellow 2002 manual M3 Coupe, 65k miles, 2 owners, FSH with piles of paperwork, HPI clear, recent service, 4 new tyres and supposedly fully loaded apart from the satnav. I'm not sure about the colour but, my priorities is always to buy the best car for the money. As long as it's not pink, colour doesn't really bother me.
PS. I will put up some pictures in the next couple of days with a tin of Birds Custard, of course.
It's a Yellow 2002 manual M3 Coupe, 65k miles, 2 owners, FSH with piles of paperwork, HPI clear, recent service, 4 new tyres and supposedly fully loaded apart from the satnav. I'm not sure about the colour but, my priorities is always to buy the best car for the money. As long as it's not pink, colour doesn't really bother me.PS. I will put up some pictures in the next couple of days with a tin of Birds Custard, of course.
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