I thought it could never happen to me....
Discussion
well it did. On Thursday I went to look at a 1997 Z3 2.8. Nice car with 58K miles, 12 months MoT, a pile of receipts for servicing, all with the names and reg number on, Mots going back 10 years, Log book in owners name, at his house, said he had has it 9 months but not used it. I checked the VIN number on the log book against the number in the car, and under the bonnet, all the same. Guy Said he bought it off a bloke he had know for 20 years, who had owned the car for 10 years. I rang my mate (a dealer) who did a HPI check, all it came back with was a private plate change 9 months ago, which coincided with the paperwork that was with the car. All seemed straight, agreed a price, job done.
Picked the car up Friday and paid cash. Drove the car 20 mile home and it drove like a 58K car should, no wear on the steering wheel and only very slight wear on the seat bolster. All nice and tight. Saturday morning I was up early and got the car on the ramp for a good inspection. I was really please in what I saw, in fact, save for a slightly torn exhaust mounting I could not see anything wrong. it had new disks and pads, I was REALLY pleased.
So, off the ramp and I though the first thing I would do was give it a good clean. Gunk all over the engine bay and a good scrub, followed by a jet wash. During this I hosed off a sticker that was on the side... and underneath were two holes, like where a plate had been... This made me a bit suspicious... I went back to look at the VIN number that you can see through the windowscreen... On closer look it was shiny, and very slightly wrinkled. I got a bent bit of wire and prodded the VIN.... it moved! in fact it came off and I pulled it out to reveal the real VIN of the car underneath. My heart dropped. I then took a harder look at the VIN stamped in the body at the back of the engine, I pulled away the sound deadening which was glued in place, to reveal some welding and distortion. It was a ringer....
Its 9:30, so I called the seller and told him it was a ringer... He of course denied it, saying he knew the bloke he bought it off, knew he had had the car 10 years, and basically I didn't know what I was on about. After a bit of an argument, he calmed down and asked me to bring the car over, which I agreed. He then called me back and asked me to take the car to the blokes house who he had bought the car from, and he would meet me there.
So, me, the seller and the previous owner are all looking at the car on the drive... they cant see what I am on about with the welding and distortion, and at first said that the sticker may be factory fitted... yea right... So the guy suggests we take it up the road to an accident repair specialist who he knew for his expert opinion. We get there and I show the guy the sticker, he then looks under the bonnet at the VIN number, and immediately announces "its a ringer"
The guy that had owned it for 10 years was gob smacked. The guy who sold it me straight away offered my money back in full. we went back to his house, he gave me my cash back, and even took me and my wife 20 miles back home. he said he was going to ask the other guy for his money back, but that was between him and the other guy. I admire the guy, he has integrity.
So, it all added up, all the paperwork, all the normal checks you do. I am SO glade I hosed that sticker off...
Incidentally, While we were on the guys drive, I called my mate and HPIed the cars original VIN number. It came back as a Z3, same year and spec, but it did not show as stolen?
Picked the car up Friday and paid cash. Drove the car 20 mile home and it drove like a 58K car should, no wear on the steering wheel and only very slight wear on the seat bolster. All nice and tight. Saturday morning I was up early and got the car on the ramp for a good inspection. I was really please in what I saw, in fact, save for a slightly torn exhaust mounting I could not see anything wrong. it had new disks and pads, I was REALLY pleased.
So, off the ramp and I though the first thing I would do was give it a good clean. Gunk all over the engine bay and a good scrub, followed by a jet wash. During this I hosed off a sticker that was on the side... and underneath were two holes, like where a plate had been... This made me a bit suspicious... I went back to look at the VIN number that you can see through the windowscreen... On closer look it was shiny, and very slightly wrinkled. I got a bent bit of wire and prodded the VIN.... it moved! in fact it came off and I pulled it out to reveal the real VIN of the car underneath. My heart dropped. I then took a harder look at the VIN stamped in the body at the back of the engine, I pulled away the sound deadening which was glued in place, to reveal some welding and distortion. It was a ringer....
Its 9:30, so I called the seller and told him it was a ringer... He of course denied it, saying he knew the bloke he bought it off, knew he had had the car 10 years, and basically I didn't know what I was on about. After a bit of an argument, he calmed down and asked me to bring the car over, which I agreed. He then called me back and asked me to take the car to the blokes house who he had bought the car from, and he would meet me there.
So, me, the seller and the previous owner are all looking at the car on the drive... they cant see what I am on about with the welding and distortion, and at first said that the sticker may be factory fitted... yea right... So the guy suggests we take it up the road to an accident repair specialist who he knew for his expert opinion. We get there and I show the guy the sticker, he then looks under the bonnet at the VIN number, and immediately announces "its a ringer"
The guy that had owned it for 10 years was gob smacked. The guy who sold it me straight away offered my money back in full. we went back to his house, he gave me my cash back, and even took me and my wife 20 miles back home. he said he was going to ask the other guy for his money back, but that was between him and the other guy. I admire the guy, he has integrity.
So, it all added up, all the paperwork, all the normal checks you do. I am SO glade I hosed that sticker off...
Incidentally, While we were on the guys drive, I called my mate and HPIed the cars original VIN number. It came back as a Z3, same year and spec, but it did not show as stolen?
Edited by buzzer on Sunday 1st May 21:08
Deva Link said:
va1o said:
Could have been a lot worse! Odd that the real VIN didn't show as stolen.
As for the seller and the previous owner knowing about it... I really don't think so. the reaction of the guy that had had it for 10 years was utter shock, you could see it in his face. he had replaced it with a Z4.
I will be keeping an eye out for it on Ebay and AutoTrader...
gareth.e said:
poing said:
Got to be worth sending a nice bottle of wine or something to the guy you bought it from for being honest enough to return your money. Sounds like he's just a victim as well and he was a true gent in the way he dealt with it all.
+1Will also drive past the other guys house to see if the car is still there!
bigandclever said:
james_gt3rs said:
robsco said:
Have you checked the money he gave you back isn't counterfeit? 
monthefish said:
buzzer said:
va1o said:
Rich_W said:
You were LUCKY!
Could have been a lot worse! Odd that the real VIN didn't show as stolen.
Which VIN did you enter into the HPI search? - the one that was displayed on the screen (that you subsequently removed with a bit of wire) or the real one that you later revealed?
buzzer said:
the VIN.... it moved! in fact it came off and I pulled it out to reveal the real VIN of the car underneath.
I have been around cars all my life... Its not a cut n shut, in fact it had not had any panel work on the car as far as I could see... Paint on the rear wings, boot, doors looked factory finish, but the bonnet had been painted at some point. Understandable. All the seam sealer around the car was factory applied (one of the things I always check... its very difficult to replicate a factory finish on the seam sealer!)
I had a good look at the floor pan while on the ramp, all good there. It was a straight car in the sense its never been bent!
Jonny_693 said:
buzzer said:
It is, I would be interested in peoples opinion on that
I'm going to suggest, Bloke writes his nearly new z3 off while uninsured. Then gets a dodgy mate to nick one the same and swap all the ID over and dispose of the write off. Not rocket science and the insurance companys are none the wiser?The Wookie said:
buzzer said:
But the car is now the one that was stolen... so the insurance company would have registered the VIN with HPI. My theory is that its a ringer and it was done say 12 years ago and HPI records weren't that good then?
Sounds most likely.The car is in the era of Nikasil. Slightly tenuous, but perhaps a previous owner binned the original car and decided it would be cheaper to buy a car of the same spec with a dead engine and swap the block and vins across than to claim on insurance
but the Z3 was not affected by Nikasil so I believeGassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff