996 GT3 vs BMW M3 CSL
Discussion
Having previously owned a 2003 BMW M3 CSL, which I truly loved to bits but had to sell it for a house purchase I am now back in the hunt for something special and I keep toying with either another CSL or to try out the 996 GT3.2.
Does anybody have any view on the differences between the two, or somebody tried both and can give a comparison ( other than pointing out manual vs. SMG )
I don't track my cars, it would be more for weekend fun but I do get drawn to the Clubsport package on the 996 for some reason.
Many thanks!
Does anybody have any view on the differences between the two, or somebody tried both and can give a comparison ( other than pointing out manual vs. SMG )
I don't track my cars, it would be more for weekend fun but I do get drawn to the Clubsport package on the 996 for some reason.
Many thanks!
Both brilliant cars and both are genuinely thrilling to drive.
As you already know, the CSL feels light and lively. The GT3 feels more planted, the steering is better, more analogue, more feel etc. I don't think you can go wrong with either of them, but if you mainly drive on B roads and poor surfaces, I'd say the CSL is the better car because of its more compliant suspension with softer damping.
If straight line pace matters to you, the GT3 has the edge.
The noise in a GT3 is addictive as well, but it's hard to beat the CSL's induction noise. Awesome.
As you already know, the CSL feels light and lively. The GT3 feels more planted, the steering is better, more analogue, more feel etc. I don't think you can go wrong with either of them, but if you mainly drive on B roads and poor surfaces, I'd say the CSL is the better car because of its more compliant suspension with softer damping.
If straight line pace matters to you, the GT3 has the edge.
The noise in a GT3 is addictive as well, but it's hard to beat the CSL's induction noise. Awesome.
Alpinestars said:
Both brilliant cars and both are genuinely thrilling to drive.
As you already know, the CSL feels light and lively. The GT3 feels more planted, the steering is better, more analogue, more feel etc. I don't think you can go wrong with either of them, but if you mainly drive on B roads and poor surfaces, I'd say the CSL is the better car because of its more compliant suspension with softer damping.
If straight line pace matters to you, the GT3 has the edge.
The noise in a GT3 is addictive as well, but it's hard to beat the CSL's induction noise. Awesome.
All pretty much spot on, except the comments about the CSL's steering. In 30k miles spent behind the wheel of the CSL, I never felt it lacking in feel, sure it doesn't have the weight of the GT3's steering, but all the feedback and feel needed to pilot it very quickly on the road was present.As you already know, the CSL feels light and lively. The GT3 feels more planted, the steering is better, more analogue, more feel etc. I don't think you can go wrong with either of them, but if you mainly drive on B roads and poor surfaces, I'd say the CSL is the better car because of its more compliant suspension with softer damping.
If straight line pace matters to you, the GT3 has the edge.
The noise in a GT3 is addictive as well, but it's hard to beat the CSL's induction noise. Awesome.
GT3 more planted ? Yes, as long as it's in very rude health (dampers, springs, rear toe links and front control arm bushes) Has a sensible geo set up, (likewise ride heights for road use), and preferably has been properly corner weighted.
Some decent (and recent) tyres will all increase stability, likewise a the diff needs to be healthy, though with a properly set up and maintained car (suspension wise) a tired diff is less of an issue on the road IME.
OP, you may be interested in a rather special Mk1 996 GT3 that I know is coming to the market in the next few weeks.
Thanks for the responses, i guess since life is short its best to try new things and the GT3 surely cannot disappoint. In the CSL i had it had sorted suspension (intrax ), AP brakes with fast road set up so i was a bit spoilt and a stock car may not be as good as my old one unless i embark on expensive upgrades.
Only downside to the Porsche i can see is the lack of rear seats as I've got two boys....but it wouldnt stop me getting one.
Next challenge is to find the right car....
Only downside to the Porsche i can see is the lack of rear seats as I've got two boys....but it wouldnt stop me getting one.
Next challenge is to find the right car....
I had a CSL for a year and absolutely loved it, found it very easy to drive on track and comfortable enough to use every day
Sold it to buy a 996 GT3, at first I thought I made a mistake, straight line it was faster but I didn't feel as comfortable driving bit hard, Put it down to a lack of use as I was only doing a few thousand miles a year.
Since then I've got rid of the performance friction brakes which I think we're passed their best and changed the pzero's for michelins and the car feels so much better and at last I don't regret the change.
Went to the 'ring a couple of weeks ago and the difference in confidence from when I last went there with the GT3 shortly after buying it was very aparrent
Sold it to buy a 996 GT3, at first I thought I made a mistake, straight line it was faster but I didn't feel as comfortable driving bit hard, Put it down to a lack of use as I was only doing a few thousand miles a year.
Since then I've got rid of the performance friction brakes which I think we're passed their best and changed the pzero's for michelins and the car feels so much better and at last I don't regret the change.
Went to the 'ring a couple of weeks ago and the difference in confidence from when I last went there with the GT3 shortly after buying it was very aparrent
Slippydiff said:
All pretty much spot on, except the comments about the CSL's steering. In 30k miles spent behind the wheel of the CSL, I never felt it lacking in feel, sure it doesn't have the weight of the GT3's steering, but all the feedback and feel needed to pilot it very quickly on the road was present.
Weight is probably a better way of describing it. But it does have better feel as well. W1TAK said:
Thanks for the responses, i guess since life is short its best to try new things and the GT3 surely cannot disappoint. In the CSL i had it had sorted suspension (intrax ), AP brakes with fast road set up so i was a bit spoilt and a stock car may not be as good as my old one unless i embark on expensive upgrades.
Only downside to the Porsche i can see is the lack of rear seats as I've got two boys....but it wouldnt stop me getting one.
Next challenge is to find the right car....
Nice conundrum to have!Only downside to the Porsche i can see is the lack of rear seats as I've got two boys....but it wouldnt stop me getting one.
Next challenge is to find the right car....
Having owned both a CSL and a 996.2 GT3, I would agree almost entirely with the sentiments of both Alpinestars and Slippydiff.
The two cars approach the same equation slightly differently though. The CSL is primarily a road car that happens to perform brilliantly on track (brakes notwithstanding); the GT3 is a track car with some road compensation.
Therefore it all depends on your intended usage. If you have kids and intend on carting them around, then I'd say the CSL is the most fit for purpose, as it still allows easy access to the rear (as you'll recall).
The GT3 is more tricky in this regard. Personally, if we're talking 996, I'd have to go for a Clubsport; I find it noticeably stiffer than the Comfort and of course, those wonderful seats come as standard. The Comfort seats on the other hand are woeful; being both set too high and offering insufficient lateral support. A common compromise with the Comfort cars is therefore to fit the Clubsport seats, which allows restricted access to the rear (and of course you'll need to fit rear seats).
TO drive, the GT3 will always be the more focussed car and actually, this hampers its usability on the road. I found the CSL to be a more enjoyable car in this respect. It's super-alert and flows down the road where the GT3 hops and skips. For some, that's part of the appeal, but it can get tiresome on longer drives.
On track, the tables are reversed and the GT3 comes into it's own. Brakes, engine, suspension are all of a different class. The CSL, without modification to the brakes and suspension, struggles to cope in the same environment.
But, like I say, it all depends what you want to use the car for. Personally, with a road focus in mind, I'd probably opt for the CSL; it's the car I miss more, but then again, the chance to own a GT3 at least once in your life should not be missed.
Best option, as is always the case, is to have a shot in both and draw your own conclusions.
GreatPretender said:
Nice conundrum to have!
Yes, very true, funny that when you are searching for a car you don't sit back thinking how great a problem it is to not have decided on what car to buy, and that you are lucky to be in a position to lay down large cash on a toy...you end up getting stressed that you cannot make your mind up and/or when you do you cannot find a bloody car!!Anyway, Im not desperate and will continue to search for the right GT3 ( or GT2 - again a different debate but I do like rarity ). I think other posters are right, the M3 CSL is a box ticked, it doesn't make sense to do it again.
My boys are 7 and 9 and wouldn't be anything like regular passengers so the rear seat issue isn't a problem.
Thanks to all posters, for ever great advice on PH
Sounds like a nice dilemma you have there.. I love my CSL but would love to try a GT3 at some point.. Us crazy Petrolheads want to try to tick all the boxes while we still can.... but with CSL and GT3 prices rising rapidly it almost feels like time is running out.. I would say go 996.2 or 997.1.. as you have tried the CSL... Bottom line you won't lose or be disapointed whichever way you go.
W1TAK, pop down to mine in Kent and try both. I nearly bought your CSL back in 2007 but you pulled out and decided not to sell. I then got hold of a Steel Grey one and have since bought a GT3 Mk2. Anyway if you want to try either or both PM me.
GT3 definitely feels more raw and has more feel as it bounces around the road. I will not say any more as you seem to have made your mind up.
Pip
GT3 definitely feels more raw and has more feel as it bounces around the road. I will not say any more as you seem to have made your mind up.
Pip
I loved having a CSL and sorely regret selling it. Hugely fun on track and yet tolerable enough on the road to be able to make every commute feel like a special journey. The interior was fantastic and it was a real bonus having a genuine 4 seater.
I admittedly didn't drive the best looked after GT3 when i tried one, but i didn't gel with it. In fact, the owner sold it shortly after sharing mutual feelings. So i would suggest, if there's a way, give one a proper drive before making a decision.
I admittedly didn't drive the best looked after GT3 when i tried one, but i didn't gel with it. In fact, the owner sold it shortly after sharing mutual feelings. So i would suggest, if there's a way, give one a proper drive before making a decision.
obviously a 997 would spank it on track tho. Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff