Boggo 996 911s, are they actually any good?
Discussion
A few years ago I was lusting after a 996 C4S. These are now out of reach for the time being since the prices of them have shot up, so much so they seem to be commanding the same money as a 997 C4S!
I'll be changing car this year and will probably take the cop out and buy an S4 Avant (B8) but when I sell the WRX STI I'll no doubt take a look at everything within budget and a Porsche has always been on the list. The Z4M is also on there and has been for a long time... I don't really want to spend more than £15k so I'd actually quite like a Cayman but the engine issues have scared me off.
It will be used more or less daily. What I essentially want to know is; are the base Carrera 2 and Carrera 4 cars actually any good? It would have to be a 3.6 facelift I think. I must admit I'm not as keen on the narrow body version of the 996 but it is still a 911....
I'll be changing car this year and will probably take the cop out and buy an S4 Avant (B8) but when I sell the WRX STI I'll no doubt take a look at everything within budget and a Porsche has always been on the list. The Z4M is also on there and has been for a long time... I don't really want to spend more than £15k so I'd actually quite like a Cayman but the engine issues have scared me off.
It will be used more or less daily. What I essentially want to know is; are the base Carrera 2 and Carrera 4 cars actually any good? It would have to be a 3.6 facelift I think. I must admit I'm not as keen on the narrow body version of the 996 but it is still a 911....
IMHO, yes, they're very good cars and pretty underrated too.
One of the key issues however, on both 996 and the early 997 (i.e. 997.1) is the engine.
Threads like this need a read: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
One of the key issues however, on both 996 and the early 997 (i.e. 997.1) is the engine.
Threads like this need a read: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I bought a 2003 996 C2 in October and took it to PCT to be checked over. I asked about Changing the IMS and they told me I was reading the internet too much and should watch the telly a bit more!
They had only seen two catastrophic failures since 2014 and before they shut, typically worked on 3 or 4 cars a day.
If you read about the mode of failure, typically if its not happened by 60-70k miles you’re likely to be OK.
I love every minute I go out in mine and am looking forward to the better weather.
Regards
Ian
They had only seen two catastrophic failures since 2014 and before they shut, typically worked on 3 or 4 cars a day.
If you read about the mode of failure, typically if its not happened by 60-70k miles you’re likely to be OK.
I love every minute I go out in mine and am looking forward to the better weather.
Regards
Ian
The 3.4 996 has the better (more reliable) engine, they suffer far less issues with IMS bearings and bore scoring.
I've got a 3.4 996 C2 manual coupe, and I'd say it's more involving to drive than a Subaru or Audi. Great fun on country lanes and probably the only car I've ever just gone for a drive in for pleasure. You should try one and see what you think
I've got a 3.4 996 C2 manual coupe, and I'd say it's more involving to drive than a Subaru or Audi. Great fun on country lanes and probably the only car I've ever just gone for a drive in for pleasure. You should try one and see what you think
TroubledSoul said:
I suppose it's just a worry that it won't feel very special coming from other quick cars like the Subaru, my S6 etc.
Basic chassis dynamics of any 996 - from the C2, right up to the mighty GT2 are very similar. Sure, GT cars have fancier underpinnings, but the core feel of rear engine, rear drive, with the excellent steering feel and chassis balance is common throughout.A 911 will feel markedly 'different' to other cars. IMHO too, they have a nice interior (especially full leather examples, if you can find one) which, whilst well made, also looks very pleasingly retro.
TroubledSoul said:
I suppose it's just a worry that it won't feel very special coming from other quick cars like the Subaru, my S6 etc.
Depends what makes a car feel special to you... if you're only interested in straight line speed, maybe not, but if steering feel and handling delicacy are important to you even the most basic 996 will feel very special compared to any Subaru/Audi.Chris Stott said:
Depends what makes a car feel special to you... if you're only interested in straight line speed, maybe not, but if steering feel and handling delicacy are important to you even the most basic 996 will feel very special compared to any Subaru/Audi.
Probably worded badly I guess. I like driver involvement. I like to feel like I am an integral part of the experience, not just a passenger being quickly ferried along. But certainly, speed is quite important to me. I'm a huge fan of the MR2, having a owned a number of MK2 Turbos and MK3 roadsters. They are probably my favourite cars to drive from a pure driving/handling perspective out of everything I have owned. Just too slow in the MK3's case. Yet I keep buying them! The Subarus are so capable though and quick in all conditions. The Audis.... well they are Audis. Quick but not that involving.
It sounds as though I should definitely consider one though. Then it comes down to the old C2 vs C4 debate which I'm aware has been done to death
I very almost bought an early 996 3.4 Cab a couple of weeks ago. I was specifically looking for a 1998 car with the more reliable IMS bearing. Also a manual box too. Sadly, the gearbox self-destructed on the test-drive... lucky escape.
Never underestimate the potential costs lurking around the corner with such cars. They were expensive when new and can throw up big bills even aside from the potential engine-lunching scenarios.
But they are truly great cars and I do have pangs of regret in not sticking to my guns to hunt out another (I ended up with a twin turbo BMW 135i Cab from a main dealer instead).They can also be surprisingly practical. I have a set of roof bars and a ski box plus bike racks for mine and we can fit almost as much kit in it as with most other cars. The little one also fits well in the back (be aware that the Cab and Targa have decidedly less friendly back seats).
My main driver is a Porsche 997 C2 3.6 and the 996 Cab was supposed to my town car (nothing like running two out-of-warranty 911's to scare the accountant).
My advice... hunt out an early 996 3.4 C2 with a manual box and ideally sports-seats... it will be the last car you ever need and will run forever if you look after it.
Never underestimate the potential costs lurking around the corner with such cars. They were expensive when new and can throw up big bills even aside from the potential engine-lunching scenarios.
But they are truly great cars and I do have pangs of regret in not sticking to my guns to hunt out another (I ended up with a twin turbo BMW 135i Cab from a main dealer instead).They can also be surprisingly practical. I have a set of roof bars and a ski box plus bike racks for mine and we can fit almost as much kit in it as with most other cars. The little one also fits well in the back (be aware that the Cab and Targa have decidedly less friendly back seats).
My main driver is a Porsche 997 C2 3.6 and the 996 Cab was supposed to my town car (nothing like running two out-of-warranty 911's to scare the accountant).
My advice... hunt out an early 996 3.4 C2 with a manual box and ideally sports-seats... it will be the last car you ever need and will run forever if you look after it.
As you have said - you need to drive one. However, £15k is going to be a struggle for a good enough car that can be used every day though - even the youngest 996 is 14 and the oldest 20 this year. You will find cars at that level but the vast majority will need another £3-£5k spending on them up front to make them reliable, plus another £2k per year to keep them that way (of course this can vary depending on how handy you are with a spanner).
See this thread http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=124111
See this thread http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=124111
TroubledSoul said:
Isn't that the 3.4 though, hence my preference for a 3.6. Or am I wide of the mark? (Will have a read of that thread next)
I suppose it's just a worry that it won't feel very special coming from other quick cars like the Subaru, my S6 etc.
Informed consensus is that the engines in early (98/99) 3.4 cars are pretty much bulletproof.I suppose it's just a worry that it won't feel very special coming from other quick cars like the Subaru, my S6 etc.
They are also the lightest 996 produced (lighter even than the GT3) and are dynamically superb.
I enjoy mine (996 3.4) - I suppose that's all I can really say. My other car is an mx5 turbo and the porsche is as enjoyable (tho of course completely different) in terms of engagement and feel. The noise is even better!
It's plenty quick enough for everyday driving. The 0-60 is not so impressive these days but the 3rd gear pull is addictive especially above 5k rpm.
It's plenty quick enough for everyday driving. The 0-60 is not so impressive these days but the 3rd gear pull is addictive especially above 5k rpm.
Whilst there are some sound advice on this thread, and one should always have realistic expectations about the cars’ conditions at this end of the market (on any second hand car really, not just 996) and running costs, be careful not to fall into the same trap of the 996/7 GT3 buying threads where some believe ‘they all require £10k to be spent on them immediately’. Otherwise you will never buy a car!
I love my 3.4 C2. Good luck with your search.
I love my 3.4 C2. Good luck with your search.
996 Carrera won EVO COTY (and 996s won 3 more times in other forms in the next 5 years, more than any subsequent model).
If you like a car to be involving, you'll love the 996, especially the C2 (and apparently the C4 is not much different). Get a good one (i.e. after a good, thorough inspection by a good specialist) and they need not cost the earth to run; they're not super-complicated cars.
I actually prefer the looks and significant torque increase of the 3.6 and at night you'll be very thankful for the (standard) Bi-Xenons, as the Mark 1s Halogens are truly dire.
Here's a review (of my car) by a very knowledge chap here (and motoring journalist) to hopefully help you learn about the breed:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
If you like a car to be involving, you'll love the 996, especially the C2 (and apparently the C4 is not much different). Get a good one (i.e. after a good, thorough inspection by a good specialist) and they need not cost the earth to run; they're not super-complicated cars.
I actually prefer the looks and significant torque increase of the 3.6 and at night you'll be very thankful for the (standard) Bi-Xenons, as the Mark 1s Halogens are truly dire.
Here's a review (of my car) by a very knowledge chap here (and motoring journalist) to hopefully help you learn about the breed:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I’ve had a Subaru, quattro Audis and a variety of mid-engined cars including an Elise and a Boxster Spyder.
My current 3.4 996 C4 is the best of the lot for all round driver appeal in any conditions. It’s not the best at any one thing but it is excellent early on a B road, at night on a motorway and on track. It can seat four (sort of), carry luggage and shrink around me when I press on. The quality, feel and character excites me every time.
The engine is smooth, revvy and strong. Sure there are faster cars but all told it is a very well executed package; flexible, engaging and rewarding.
C2 vs C4 will always generate debate. I was set on a C2 til I drove a C4 (broadens choice). Then I realised it doesn’t matter. The C4 is stiffer and better balanced, but just slightly different, not better overall.
Try one. I don’t think you’ll be disappointed.
My current 3.4 996 C4 is the best of the lot for all round driver appeal in any conditions. It’s not the best at any one thing but it is excellent early on a B road, at night on a motorway and on track. It can seat four (sort of), carry luggage and shrink around me when I press on. The quality, feel and character excites me every time.
The engine is smooth, revvy and strong. Sure there are faster cars but all told it is a very well executed package; flexible, engaging and rewarding.
C2 vs C4 will always generate debate. I was set on a C2 til I drove a C4 (broadens choice). Then I realised it doesn’t matter. The C4 is stiffer and better balanced, but just slightly different, not better overall.
Try one. I don’t think you’ll be disappointed.
EGTE said:
I actually prefer the looks and significant torque increase of the 3.6 and at night you'll be very thankful for the (standard) Bi-Xenons, as the Mark 1s Halogens are truly dire.
Good post, but Bi-Xenons are not standard on the 3.6. They have projector lenses but halogen bulbs were standard.My 2p worth, get one. More interesting to steer than an MR2 turbo (I used to have a green targa - fun cars) and maybe a bit more character?
Buy on quality of the car, I think all this 3.4 v 3.6 stuff is getting a bit overblown. Sure its good for values of 3.4 M030 cars but if you are planning on keeping one, you just want the best you can afford. Not saying 3.6s are better or anything (to head off potential criticism) but can always replace the IMS bearing when you do the clutch and the 3.6 doesn't d chunk.
Buy on quality of the car, I think all this 3.4 v 3.6 stuff is getting a bit overblown. Sure its good for values of 3.4 M030 cars but if you are planning on keeping one, you just want the best you can afford. Not saying 3.6s are better or anything (to head off potential criticism) but can always replace the IMS bearing when you do the clutch and the 3.6 doesn't d chunk.
Thanks chaps, lots of helpful info here. So the 3.4 is considered a stronger engine? I'd prefer the 3.6 car really for the power and looks. What's the weight difference?
High running costs are an accepted part of the package. Running a pair of Subarus and an S6 isn't the cheapest way to go about your motoring to be fair
High running costs are an accepted part of the package. Running a pair of Subarus and an S6 isn't the cheapest way to go about your motoring to be fair
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