991.1 GT3-RS: GOOD TIME TO BUY...??

[LaSource]

Porsche911R said:

LaSource said:

The sport button on the GT4 also opens up extra cooling in the front rads (you can visibility see the coolant temp reduce on circuit and probably road too). However Porsche never made a strong point about the extra cooling being recommended for the engine on circuit and therefore most people just used it as n 'auto blip on/off' button. Ideally you would want the cooling on and the auto blip off but can't select like that.

I assume the 991.2GT3 does something similar else they would have called it an 'auto blip on/off' button

GT4 would open the extra cooling if needed sport off, so was really a auto blip button.

Ok - I hadn't realised that. I used to see the temps go up when turned off on circuit and didn't realise if needed its still there. Makes sense.

[Juno]

LaSource said:

browngt3 said:

Yes it's more than just about the manual and we need to look at the whole car. Comparing my manual 991 GT3 with my old 996 GT3 I would say the old car was deeply immersive and so far, although still early days, I think I preferred its manual box. Maybe this is your point as it suited the car better. Still I haven't run the new car in yet so time will tell.

Yes I think this is exactly the point, well put. If I were buying a 996GT3 the subject wouldn’t even arise, one because it can’t but the main reason being it is just suited to the manual as it was designed as a whole package!

+1 there is a lot of nuance here which is apparent to those that care about it, less so to those that don't.
I agree just a manual box doesn't do it. The GT4 and 991.2 implementation are very very good but the overall package is a tad contrived as the car generally is more refined. We are splitting hairs here as well in that one wouldn't refuse a 991.2 just because of this...it doesn't make it a bad car in any way or shape...just not as immersive as the throwback cars we try to compare them to.

Swimfinz said:

That’s definitely the case on the GT4.... (Unlike on my 987 Spyder, where the throttle map was changed significantly for the better with the Sport button pressed). Have heard it is the same on the new gen manual GT3 as well, but stand to be corrected....

The sport button on the GT4 also opens up extra cooling in the front rads (you can visibility see the coolant temp reduce on circuit and probably road too). However Porsche never made a strong point about the extra cooling being recommended for the engine on circuit and therefore most people just used it as n 'auto blip on/off' button. Ideally you would want the cooling on and the auto blip off but can't select like that.

I assume the 991.2GT3 does something similar else they would have called it an 'auto blip on/off' button

[isaldiri]

DT398 said:

The immersive experience isn’t just about waggling the stick around imho, it’s much more about the whole car. For me, the gt4 didn’t do it, nor did the boxster Spyder in the end. I don’t think the 991 gt3 would either but I haven’t driven the manual. 997.2RS on the other hand......IMHO.

^ this. For me it's not just about the gearbox choice. The 9x1 generation has been a disappointment personally, GT cars included albeit not having driven a manual .2 gt3. I don't think even that car is going to rediscover the analogue experience of the previous GT gen though, the gt4 was far from it for example. Still a very good car that does what it says on the tin though I expect.

[av185]

isaldiri said:

the gt4 was far from it for example. Still a very good car that does what it says on the tin though I expect.

981 Spyder truer to form than GT4. Imo a better package.

GT4s main problem, as discussed before, is the non GT engine.

As expected, Gen 2 GT3 steering is a notch up from the Gen 1 which was basically ok but clearly no hydraulic comparison.

Excellent 'Gen 2 'Manuel' gearbox on a par with 911R. Only cricism is the clutch which imo is too light. Pity the weighting not like the GT4 which is perfect.

[isaldiri]

av185 said:

GT4s main problem, as discussed before, is the non GT engine.

The engine alone wouldn't completely transform the gt4 experience imo. The .2 gt3 manual is basically a gt4 on steroids but even that car as I said i very much doubt will recall the prior gen of GT car driving experience.

The gt4 and .2 gt3 are (excellent) examples of a modern sports car, lots of performance that is very easily accessible, and with the added advantage of being normally aspirated and have a manual gearbox. What they are not for me anyway are anything of an 'analogue' driving experience with or without a manual box. The 997 gt3 isn't entirely analogue either of course but it feels a completely different experience to drive than the 9X1 GT cars. It depends on what one wants from a car really.

[Porsche911R]

av185 said:

981 Spyder truer to form than GT4. Imo a better package.

GT4s main problem, as discussed before, is the non GT engine.

As expected, Gen 2 GT3 steering is a notch up from the Gen 1 which was basically ok but clearly no hydraulic comparison.

Excellent 'Gen 2 'Manuel' gearbox on a par with 911R. Only cricism is the clutch which imo is too light. Pity the weighting not like the GT4 which is perfect.

same Engine as in the Spyder, so forget the GT4 has a non GT engine and enjoy it for what it is which is a better car than the Spyder in most area's :-)

also imo no such thing as a clutch too light, 997.2 GT3 are a pain in the knee !!!! I am looking forward to it being lighter.

[Porsche911R]

isaldiri said:

The engine alone wouldn't completely transform the gt4 experience imo. The .2 gt3 manual is basically a gt4 on steroids but even that car as I said i very much doubt will recall the prior gen of GT car driving experience.

The gt4 and .2 gt3 are (excellent) examples of a modern sports car, lots of performance that is very easily accessible, and with the added advantage of being normally aspirated and have a manual gearbox. What they are not for me anyway are anything of an 'analogue' driving experience with or without a manual box. The 997 gt3 isn't entirely analogue either of course but it feels a completely different experience to drive than the 9X1 GT cars. It depends on what one wants from a car really.

tricky post to tackle as PASM on the 997 GT3 is flawed imo enough to put you off the system or the older GT3's oem, but the PASM on the GT4 is great.

Also what some people call feedback others can call bad suspension lol a steering wheel should not buck and move about in your hands, but it should offer up what the road is doing, some thing EPS still cannot quite do esp In the wet, although not been in the new 991.2 GT3 yet, but as it won over a Lotus for steering feel they must have nailed it on the new car.

My R still has better steering feel then any GT3 imo and is better weighted due to the extra weight over the front wheels.

So I AM looking for a GT4 on steroids with better steering feel.

If not I am def going 997.2 GT3 and £25k upgrades on it or just buy a Exige for £50k !

[av185]

Porsche911R said:

same Engine as in the Spyder, so forget the GT4 has a non GT engine and enjoy it for what it is which is a better car than the Spyder in most area's :-)

also imo no such thing as a clutch too light, 997.2 GT3 are a pain in the knee !!!! I am looking forward to it being lighter.

As discussed before the Spyder as a package is truer to form than the GT4 and is a better road car too imo. Nothing between the 2 cars performance wise on the road.

You are missing the point on the clutch. 997 GT3 and 997 RS way too heavy, 981 Spyder slightly too light 991.2 GT3 way too light.

GT4 perfect clutch both feel and weighting.

[luigisayshello]

Yes. Even better on the 991.2 rs deliveries. The 991.1 rs won't appreciate anytime soon, and given all the gt values it won't drop much from the cheap ones

[Swimfinz]

luigisayshello said:

Yes. Even better on the 991.2 rs deliveries. The 991.1 rs won't appreciate anytime soon, and given all the gt values it won't drop much from the cheap ones

Despite having kind of talked myself into going for a 997.2 GT3-RS over the 991.1 RS model (manual shift, analogue feel, feedback etc, etc....), I still went ahead with my pre booked test-drive in a 991.1 GT3-RS today.... All I can say is..... WOW..... It’s an insane car— clearly wayyyy too fast for normal road use, but still fantastic in so many ways.... I did find myself pressing an imaginary clutch pedal, but tbh the PDK shift— in manual mode— was pretty impressive nonetheless..... Steering feel, for an electronic system, was surprisingly good; sound was amazing; throttle response unbelievable; cornered as if on rails.....!! I know, I know: I haven’t yet been offered a test drive in the 997 equivalent, so haven’t really got a proper benchmark— but I did LOVE it..... A LOT...

Am I talking myself into this car....?? Probably..... It didn’t help that the dealer offered me far more for my GT4 than I thought possible.....

Arghhhh.....!!! Hopefully I’ll get behind the wheel of the 997 3RS soon, before I do something impulsive, which I may later regret...!!

Anyway..... Below is the car I was looking at.... Any feedback on spec etc would be much appreciated.... My greatest concern, I guess, is that it’s the ONLY RS I’ve seen for sale that DOESN’T have the full 918 buckets.... It has the folding variety, which I had in my 987 Spyder and really quite liked.... My GT4 has the full fixed buckets, which I also quite like, especially on track days..... What do peeps think— will this make the car a difficult one to move on in the future....??? Would seem silly, but then the Porsche market often is pretty fickle...

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Cheers all....!!

Edited by Swimfinz on Tuesday 20th March 20:49

[blackmamba]

Looks fantastic if you ask me. I am sure most people will prefers the 918 seats but if you find the folding buckets comfortable, it seems priced sensibly. If they are giving you a good p/x as well, go for it!

[RSVP911]

Swimfinz said:

luigisayshello said:

Yes. Even better on the 991.2 rs deliveries. The 991.1 rs won't appreciate anytime soon, and given all the gt values it won't drop much from the cheap ones

Despite having kind of talked myself into going for a 997.2 GT3-RS over the 991.1 RS model (manual shift, analogue feel, feedback etc, etc....), I still went ahead with my pre booked test-drive in a 991.1 GT3-RS today.... All I can say is..... WOW..... It’s an insane car— clearly wayyyy too fast for normal road use, but still fantastic in so many ways.... I did find myself pressing an imaginary clutch pedal, but tbh the PDK shift— in manual mode— was pretty impressive nonetheless..... Steering feel, for an electronic system, was surprisingly good; sound was amazing; throttle response unbelievable; cornered as if on rails.....!! I know, I know: I haven’t yet been offered a test drive in the 997 equivalent, so haven’t really got a proper benchmark— but I did LOVE it..... A LOT...

Am I talking myself into this car....?? Probably..... It didn’t help that the dealer offered me far more for my GT4 than I thought possible.....

Arghhhh.....!!! Hopefully I’ll get behind the wheel of the 997 3RS soon, before I do something impulsive, which I may later regret...!!

Anyway..... Below is the car I was looking at.... Any feedback on spec etc would be much appreciated.... My greatest concern, I guess, is that it’s the ONLY RS I’ve seen for sale that DOESN’T have the full 918 buckets.... It has the folding variety, which I had in my 987 Spyder and really quite liked.... My GT4 has the full fixed buckets, which I also quite like, especially on track days..... What do peeps think— will this make the car a difficult one to move on in the future....??? Would seem silly, but then the Porsche market often is pretty fickle...

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Cheers all....!!

Edited by Swimfinz on Tuesday 20th March 20:49

Glad you liked it - bottom line is they are completly different cars - not comparable - both great but very different things.

Don’t rush into anything : the 991RS market is soft - lots for sale and more will be up for sale as the second wave of 991.2 GT3’s / RS’s arrive - I think the car is also missing Leather dash - I’m sure you can get as good a deal on one with 918 seats and leather dash . Not that I think the seats are an issue in reality , but you will find they will be used as an excuse to low ball you when you chop it in - but I think the dash is more of a turn off than the seats.

I think the 997 RS will depreciate less.

Either way both are amazing cars and there is nothing wrong with this car - all I’m saying is don’t be pressurised into anything as time is your friend and there are lots about - I’d find a few you like and offer on all of them - lots will be on SOR and some one will be motivated to sell.

Harder to do this on the 997.2 RS as they are far rarer.

Good luck

Edited to add - just noticed mileage - this car is not good value IMHO - not that 9000 is high but in the GT market it is a factor that will bite you on re sale. I would not buy this car - sorry

Edited by RSVP911 on Tuesday 20th March 21:13

[m33ufo]

Re the seats...personally I find the folding (sport) buckets much more comfortable than the full (918 style) variety. Given the option of the two they're what I'd choose.

Edited by m33ufo on Wednesday 21st March 07:56

[Porsche911R]

I don’t think either bucket makes any odds to future resale, many people hunt out the folding and many people have gone back to ordering the folding buckets.

[Swimfinz]

RSVP911 said:

Glad you liked it - bottom line is they are completly different cars - not comparable - both great but very different things.

Don’t rush into anything : the 991RS market is soft - lots for sale and more will be up for sale as the second wave of 991.2 GT3’s / RS’s arrive - I think the car is also missing Leather dash - I’m sure you can get as good a deal on one with 918 seats and leather dash . Not that I think the seats are an issue in reality , but you will find they will be used as an excuse to low ball you when you chop it in - but I think the dash is more of a turn off than the seats.

Edited to add - just noticed mileage - this car is not good value IMHO - not that 9000 is high but in the GT market it is a factor that will bite you on re sale. I would not buy this car - sorry

Edited by RSVP911 on Tuesday 20th March 21:13

No worries— I actually REALLY appreciate the input, positive or negative.... This is an expensive purchase for me, and I will not part with my hard-earned cash lightly...!!

Having said that, looking on both the OPC Network, and on the general market, it would seem that a car with “significantly” lower mileage +/- leather dash, would currently set me back a further £20-30k....!! Are those few thousand extra miles, and a leather dash, really worth that much more...?!? It may well be the case— as I said before, the Porsche market is very fickle— but I’m still pretty shocked at the difference 4K miles makes to the car’s value....

[Dr S]

I would personally not be put off by the plastic dash as I rahter like it in my 7.2 RS due to it's more race car feel (I have leather in my GT3 daily though).. Leather dash might be a good lever to negotiate on price though as it's important to many a buyer

[Steve Rance]

Wouldn’t bother me at all. Probably wouldn’t even notice.

[RSVP911]

Swimfinz said:

RSVP911 said:

Glad you liked it - bottom line is they are completly different cars - not comparable - both great but very different things.

Don’t rush into anything : the 991RS market is soft - lots for sale and more will be up for sale as the second wave of 991.2 GT3’s / RS’s arrive - I think the car is also missing Leather dash - I’m sure you can get as good a deal on one with 918 seats and leather dash . Not that I think the seats are an issue in reality , but you will find they will be used as an excuse to low ball you when you chop it in - but I think the dash is more of a turn off than the seats.

Edited to add - just noticed mileage - this car is not good value IMHO - not that 9000 is high but in the GT market it is a factor that will bite you on re sale. I would not buy this car - sorry

Edited by RSVP911 on Tuesday 20th March 21:13

No worries— I actually REALLY appreciate the input, positive or negative.... This is an expensive purchase for me, and I will not part with my hard-earned cash lightly...!!

Having said that, looking on both the OPC Network, and on the general market, it would seem that a car with “significantly” lower mileage +/- leather dash, would currently set me back a further £20-30k....!! Are those few thousand extra miles, and a leather dash, really worth that much more...?!? It may well be the case— as I said before, the Porsche market is very fickle— but I’m still pretty shocked at the difference 4K miles makes to the car’s value....

No problem, genuinely just trying to help - I no longer own a 991 RS and as such have no reason to talk the market up or down. ( not that I would at any time anyway)

Re comments on dash/seats/mileage - I am not saying I’d care about any of this , nor am I saying that they are important from an ownership perspective - all are absolutly fine; all I’m saying is that, when it comes to sell these three things will be used as excuses to “low ball” you at that time and in the current market, you can afford to haggle/ wait to get a car that doesn’t “have a story” in this regard.

Re your comment on £k20/£k30 premium for lower mileage , spec variance - not sure this stacks up / don’t get confused by advertised vs. actual prices - as I say, offer on a few cars to understand where the market really is.

Real world data from Feb of this year : 991.1 RS, spec > £k 150 (lift, PCCB’s , leather, 918 seats , +++) with PPF & decals on top , mileage 2100 , immaculate in every way : Sold for £k 7 more than the asking price on the white car.

As I say, I’m genuinely trying to help.

Good luck

Edited by RSVP911 on Wednesday 21st March 07:59

[blackmamba]

I think as long as you allow for any perceived impact on value due to seats, dash, miles etc in the price then I wouldn't discount it. Good negotiating position and £20-30k is a good allowance to play with.

Or hold out for a fully spec’d car with low miles that you will be worried about driving!

[Porsche911R]

blackmamba said:

I think as long as you allow for any perceived impact on value due to seats, dash, miles etc in the price then I wouldn't discount it. Good negotiating position and £20-30k is a good allowance to play with.

Or hold out for a fully spec’d car with low miles that you will be worried about driving!

I agree I would rather buy a car with 10k miles and save £15k, buying a car with only 3k miles makes you think if you use it you loose £15k that's one expensive euro hoon.