911 Carrera S (992) availability
Discussion
Joscal said:
Porsche being Porsche they’ll be going to the most profitable markets?
Porsche globally had a record sales/production year last year….so the parts/factory issues aren’t as serious as your average OPC salesman tells people. In the UK we definitely got a lot less cars than we normally would (Brexit perhaps?)…other markets like the US had a record year. This year according to SMMT figures Porsche sales are up nearly 50% in the UK (Bentley also had a massive jump).As for an OPC getting two 911’s for the rest of the year ? I am massively sceptical about that.. In my experience it is not unknown for facts like that to be presented to suit a conversation.
I am currently sat in an OPC while my Cayenne is having a a “while you wait” service…I am watching a transporter unload a delivery of eight cars including five 911’s (two GTS’s, one Turbo S, one Carrera and a PTS GTS Cab in Speed or Signal Yellow)
Joscal said:
Porsche being Porsche they’ll be going to the most profitable markets?
Correct and not to mention the pound presumably was an issue meaning they preferred delivering to other markets. As clearly Porsche reporting their financial update shows that there is not a big drop this year on deliveries globally. I am also quite sure UK orders for 992 must have risen substantially I'm the last 12 months, thanks to QE and people rewarding themselves and add a sprinkle of speculators or people who thought they can own a 911 for 12 months for free... This should be begining to dissipate quickly now?
OPCs will feed punters all kinds of verbal tribe to create an illusion that everyday 992s are rarer and more exclusive than they actually are. Judging by the huge number of 992GTS and 992TTS currently for sale on the OPC network asking silly overs and not selling, its all going to come tumbling down this autumn. Same goes for property prices which will be another casualty of our hugely overleveraged house of cards economy.
Taffy66 said:
OPCs will feed punters all kinds of verbal tribe to create an illusion that everyday 992s are rarer and more exclusive than they actually are. Judging by the huge number of 992GTS and 992TTS currently for sale on the OPC network asking silly overs and not selling, its all going to come tumbling down this autumn. Same goes for property prices which will be another casualty of our hugely overleveraged house of cards economy.
I don’t think so. This was a private conversation between a current Sytner salesman and a retired one. No punter for him to over-egg anything to. Haribo Lecter said:
Doesn’t make sense but that’s what 2 separate dealers quoted on the previous page have said.
Porsche official figures are far more reliable than unsubstantiated claims by dealers, who as posters above have said may be motivated to share inaccurate information. That is anecdotal info at best. Also anecdotally, I see lots of 992s about in the UK.I personally do not believe any UK OPC is only going to be delivering two more 992s this year. UK gets roughly 10% of production annually, something that hasn’t fluctuated much with currency movements in the past so I see no reason for that to change now. That means something really roughly in the region of 4,000 992s this year.
The UK is a major market for Porsche. Hence, among other things, being the second global location for an Experience Center and the first outside Germany. Personally, I’d want substantial evidence for Porsche massively constricting supply to the UK versus other markets. A couple of stories from dealers who may have reason to exaggerate isn’t nearly enough.
OK, Porsche delivered about 14k cars to the UK in 2021, so that is about half of what you'd normally expect given overall global deliveries of about 300k. It's up 40 percent on that this year so far, and heading for about 20k deliveries. Again, less than what you'd expect historically given global deliveries will be 300k again or a bit higher, but closer.
Based in that smaller proportion for the UK, you'd expect around 2,500 to 3,000 992s to be delivered to the UK this year. Although that is down proportionally on previous years - in other words, the UK is getting a smaller proportion of production - in outright terms, that is pretty comparable to UK volumes over the past 15 years.
Porsche is knocking out around 40k 911s a year right now, record numbers. 25k to 35k has been the norm over the past 15 years with the UK getting around 10 percent of production, so around 2,500 to 3,500 911s annually. In other words, roughly in the same ballpark as now.
Based in that smaller proportion for the UK, you'd expect around 2,500 to 3,000 992s to be delivered to the UK this year. Although that is down proportionally on previous years - in other words, the UK is getting a smaller proportion of production - in outright terms, that is pretty comparable to UK volumes over the past 15 years.
Porsche is knocking out around 40k 911s a year right now, record numbers. 25k to 35k has been the norm over the past 15 years with the UK getting around 10 percent of production, so around 2,500 to 3,500 911s annually. In other words, roughly in the same ballpark as now.
Haribo Lecter said:
Taffy66 said:
OPCs will feed punters all kinds of verbal tribe to create an illusion that everyday 992s are rarer and more exclusive than they actually are. Judging by the huge number of 992GTS and 992TTS currently for sale on the OPC network asking silly overs and not selling, its all going to come tumbling down this autumn. Same goes for property prices which will be another casualty of our hugely overleveraged house of cards economy.
I don’t think so. This was a private conversation between a current Sytner salesman and a retired one. No punter for him to over-egg anything to. Edited by Cheib on Tuesday 2nd August 18:01
It does suggest then that UK deliveries have been somewhat choked a bit.
Having said that I remember when the 991.2 GTS arrived and dealers were awash with them, I seem to recall being offered several that were sat in the showroom almost in effect dealer specified cars as Porsche had been churning then out.
Last chat I had at OPC he did say delivery time on a GTS was probably under 12 months versus a boggo Carrera 2.being much longer .
Having said that I remember when the 991.2 GTS arrived and dealers were awash with them, I seem to recall being offered several that were sat in the showroom almost in effect dealer specified cars as Porsche had been churning then out.
Last chat I had at OPC he did say delivery time on a GTS was probably under 12 months versus a boggo Carrera 2.being much longer .
I see we have lots of intelligent observations… and few current order experiences.
I read press releases with global production stats, but I have not seen UK sales stats. I suspect we are being deprived of Porsche cars in the UK and the sales numbers are not being publicised. The SE at the OPC are equally frustrated, as they have to sell 2nd hand cars because new stock is hard to get.
Go and place an order… when I did order 992 C2S in Dec 2021, the SE produced Porsche GB chart with forecasted availability of diff models and derivatives. It was 12-months lead time for C2S, while GTS was shorter and C2 was slightly longer. I was 4th in the queue. Today, 7 months later, I am 3rd in the queue, only because someone lost interest and bought another car.
This is my third new Porsche order at the same OPC and I have no reason to suspect SE of any nonsense. He was always upfront with me. The bottom line is UK is no longer getting the allocations we used to, for whatever sinister reason.
I read press releases with global production stats, but I have not seen UK sales stats. I suspect we are being deprived of Porsche cars in the UK and the sales numbers are not being publicised. The SE at the OPC are equally frustrated, as they have to sell 2nd hand cars because new stock is hard to get.
Go and place an order… when I did order 992 C2S in Dec 2021, the SE produced Porsche GB chart with forecasted availability of diff models and derivatives. It was 12-months lead time for C2S, while GTS was shorter and C2 was slightly longer. I was 4th in the queue. Today, 7 months later, I am 3rd in the queue, only because someone lost interest and bought another car.
This is my third new Porsche order at the same OPC and I have no reason to suspect SE of any nonsense. He was always upfront with me. The bottom line is UK is no longer getting the allocations we used to, for whatever sinister reason.
Pivo said:
I saw your numbers, however my actual experience is somewhat different and I hear the same feedback from different OPCs. Dealers are getting fewer 911s and lead-times are getting longer.
Odd then that you said you hadn't seen any. The numbers are from the SMMT website.Another good indicator of reality as opposed to claims is used availability. On Pistonheads, there are currently 136 used 992 Carrera for sale and 178 991 Carrera. That's obviously both 991.1 and 991.2 combined - the whole 991 cycle. The 992.1 cycle hasn't even finished yet, and then there will be the 992.2. And 992 are supposed to be in very short supply? All the hard evidence says otherwise. Only anecdotal stuff is claiming the short supply.
Cheib said:
Porsche globally had a record sales/production year last year….so the parts/factory issues aren’t as serious as your average OPC salesman tells people. In the UK we definitely got a lot less cars than we normally would (Brexit perhaps?)…other markets like the US had a record year. This year according to SMMT figures Porsche sales are up nearly 50% in the UK (Bentley also had a massive jump).
As for an OPC getting two 911’s for the rest of the year ? I am massively sceptical about that.. In my experience it is not unknown for facts like that to be presented to suit a conversation.
I am currently sat in an OPC while my Cayenne is having a a “while you wait” service…I am watching a transporter unload a delivery of eight cars including five 911’s (two GTS’s, one Turbo S, one Carrera and a PTS GTS Cab in Speed or Signal Yellow)
you weren't sat in Silverstone by any chance were you? As for an OPC getting two 911’s for the rest of the year ? I am massively sceptical about that.. In my experience it is not unknown for facts like that to be presented to suit a conversation.
I am currently sat in an OPC while my Cayenne is having a a “while you wait” service…I am watching a transporter unload a delivery of eight cars including five 911’s (two GTS’s, one Turbo S, one Carrera and a PTS GTS Cab in Speed or Signal Yellow)
My Signal Yellow GTS Cab was delivered there Tuesday, and im pretty sure theres only one of those in existence.......
Hope it looked good, picking it up Friday
Davidkn said:
Cheib said:
Porsche globally had a record sales/production year last year….so the parts/factory issues aren’t as serious as your average OPC salesman tells people. In the UK we definitely got a lot less cars than we normally would (Brexit perhaps?)…other markets like the US had a record year. This year according to SMMT figures Porsche sales are up nearly 50% in the UK (Bentley also had a massive jump).
As for an OPC getting two 911’s for the rest of the year ? I am massively sceptical about that.. In my experience it is not unknown for facts like that to be presented to suit a conversation.
I am currently sat in an OPC while my Cayenne is having a a “while you wait” service…I am watching a transporter unload a delivery of eight cars including five 911’s (two GTS’s, one Turbo S, one Carrera and a PTS GTS Cab in Speed or Signal Yellow)
you weren't sat in Silverstone by any chance were you? As for an OPC getting two 911’s for the rest of the year ? I am massively sceptical about that.. In my experience it is not unknown for facts like that to be presented to suit a conversation.
I am currently sat in an OPC while my Cayenne is having a a “while you wait” service…I am watching a transporter unload a delivery of eight cars including five 911’s (two GTS’s, one Turbo S, one Carrera and a PTS GTS Cab in Speed or Signal Yellow)
My Signal Yellow GTS Cab was delivered there Tuesday, and im pretty sure theres only one of those in existence.......
Hope it looked good, picking it up Friday
Looked awesome. Enjoy tomorrow !!!! esotericar said:
Odd then that you said you hadn't seen any. The numbers are from the SMMT website.
Another good indicator of reality as opposed to claims is used availability. On Pistonheads, there are currently 136 used 992 Carrera for sale and 178 991 Carrera. That's obviously both 991.1 and 991.2 combined - the whole 991 cycle. The 992.1 cycle hasn't even finished yet, and then there will be the 992.2. And 992 are supposed to be in very short supply? All the hard evidence says otherwise. Only anecdotal stuff is claiming the short supply.
Your stats might be correct, however it doesn’t change the fact that my OPC has not received new C2S in over six months and I am 3rd out of 8 orders with deposits. I have no reason not to believe my SE, as he sold me two other Porsches and always been truthful with me. For me, anything else is hearsay.Another good indicator of reality as opposed to claims is used availability. On Pistonheads, there are currently 136 used 992 Carrera for sale and 178 991 Carrera. That's obviously both 991.1 and 991.2 combined - the whole 991 cycle. The 992.1 cycle hasn't even finished yet, and then there will be the 992.2. And 992 are supposed to be in very short supply? All the hard evidence says otherwise. Only anecdotal stuff is claiming the short supply.
Pivo said:
Your stats might be correct, however it doesn’t change the fact that my OPC has not received new C2S in over six months and I am 3rd out of 8 orders with deposits. I have no reason not to believe my SE, as he sold me two other Porsches and always been truthful with me. For me, anything else is hearsay.
136 992 Carreras for sale on PH is not hearsay. Over 350 992s (all types inc Turbo, GT etc) for sale on Autotrader is not hearsay. SMMT figures are not hearsay. Porsche's official delivery figures are not hearsay. Somewhat ironically, what your dealer SE told you - that is indeed hearsay!esotericar said:
136 992 Carreras for sale on PH is not hearsay. Over 350 992s (all types inc Turbo, GT etc) for sale on Autotrader is not hearsay. SMMT figures are not hearsay. Porsche's official delivery figures are not hearsay. Somewhat ironically, what your dealer SE told you - that is indeed hearsay!
have you seen the prices of 911 in the second hand market?No wonder many people put on the market their cars. I am tempted myself, but not before my new, not a second hand one, arrives.
It appears that to protect the profitability of the business, Porsche is wheeling-out low-volume, high-margin derivatives:
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2022/motorsports/p...
It looks amazing, but all I want is a C2S
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2022/motorsports/p...
It looks amazing, but all I want is a C2S
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