Discussion
GT4RS said:
I would agree, they used to be a good way into GT car ownership, not so attractive to many now the asking prices have jumped up to speculator levels and putting miles on them kills their value.
Asking prices do not equal selling prices. I do not think these are speculator cars. You can still buy a nice one for sub £60k with 50-60k miles.IMO having owned both (for a brief period together to compare/contrast) most entry level GT buyers would be better spending sub £70k on a 981 GT4. It's a simpler and more straighforward ownership proposition with fewer surprises. Obviously the 996 GT3 is the better option if you want a rawer more analogue driving experience.
Heathrow said:
GT4RS said:
I would agree, they used to be a good way into GT car ownership, not so attractive to many now the asking prices have jumped up to speculator levels and putting miles on them kills their value.
Asking prices do not equal selling prices. I do not think these are speculator cars. You can still buy a nice one for sub £60k with 50-60k miles.IMO having owned both (for a brief period together to compare/contrast) most entry level GT buyers would be better spending sub £70k on a 981 GT4. It's a simpler and more straighforward ownership proposition with fewer surprises. Obviously the 996 GT3 is the better option if you want a rawer more analogue driving experience.
Unless it’s a collectors grade example of a 996GT3 then the value of these is pretty much set by the
981 GT4. I have owned them both and given the choice at a similar price point the GT4 is a way better ownership prospect. Especially for track use. In my mind a tidy useable GT3 will sit a few quid below a tidy 981 GT4 for the foreseeable.
I would rather have a 997 GT3 either gen, than a 981GT4 but it’s a much closer call. All IMHO of course.
bigmowley said:
I have owned them both and given the choice at a similar price point the GT4 is a way better ownership prospect. Especially for track use. In my mind a tidy useable GT3 will sit a few quid below a tidy 981 GT4 for the foreseeable.
From your experience, what made the GT4 a way better ownership prospect for track use than a 996 GT3?The GT4 is a brilliant car on track. The balance and adjustability is second to non in my experience of dozens of track days in lots of different cars and racing in various formulas. You never feel like you have to drive round an inherent design feature, a la the 996. For some this may be less rewarding, but for me I much prefer the balance and poise of the GT4. Add to that the fact that the GT4 is much newer and probably a bit lighter on consumables and routine maintenance makes it the win for me. Yes the engine is not as inspiring, and there may still be a question mark over the cast alloy strut towers, but most GT4 are still under warranty which is another plus.
It takes time and effort to learn to drive a 996GT3. If you want to jump in, set a quick track time and drive home in comfort afterwards, the GT4 is a brilliant all-rounder.
If the process of learning is important to you and you enjoy managing the weight into and out of corners, the older car is more rewarding. Also, THAT engine....
I was thinking of ditching my old 996 and trying a modern Evora instead, but this thread is convincing me I need to bring Cobalt Blue out of hibernation in the Spring and apologise for ever thinking of cheating on her.
If the process of learning is important to you and you enjoy managing the weight into and out of corners, the older car is more rewarding. Also, THAT engine....
I was thinking of ditching my old 996 and trying a modern Evora instead, but this thread is convincing me I need to bring Cobalt Blue out of hibernation in the Spring and apologise for ever thinking of cheating on her.
GT4 is very easy to drive quickly on a circuit and makes you look good. It has a better inherent balance which some people may enjoy. For me the 996 GT3 is more of a challenge to extract the best out of it. The peeling back layers of an onion analogy springs to mind. The GT4 is more like a satsuma.
On the road, the 981 GT4 has so much grip vs power/torque you can never really get near its limits unless you are reckless IMHO. The GT3 has lower overall grip levels and is more exploitable as a result. But they are very sensitive to set up - I've come to the conclusion that you either need a full track set up or a road set up, the compromise in the middle is difficult to achieve. Tyres make a big difference too since the Cup 2s rob the GT3 of some much needed compliance on the road.
Richard Meaden summed it up for me in his Evo review video of the 981 GT4 at Portimao, I am paraphrasing. "the GT3 still hits heights that the GT4 cannot reach". Note he was talking in general terms about the GT3, not specifically the 996 GT3.
Also the engine in the GT4 could be better. In isolation it's a great power unit. If somebody can tell me you can now "X51 it" I would say drive down to RPM/JZM/9e etc and buy it immediately!!! But next to the Mezger it doesn't compete on an emotional level, Of course "it does the numbers" but that sort of misses the point. I came via a 981 Cayman S which (whisper it) has a nicer and freer revving engine than the GT4....
Both are great cars, don't get me wrong. You just need to be honest with yourself re: what you are looking for and also your level of ability behind the wheel too. I am convinced the process of learning the 996 GT3 has made me a better driver (on both road and track). Some days it's hard work though and other days it just feels so special. It's a real grower for me.
On the road, the 981 GT4 has so much grip vs power/torque you can never really get near its limits unless you are reckless IMHO. The GT3 has lower overall grip levels and is more exploitable as a result. But they are very sensitive to set up - I've come to the conclusion that you either need a full track set up or a road set up, the compromise in the middle is difficult to achieve. Tyres make a big difference too since the Cup 2s rob the GT3 of some much needed compliance on the road.
Richard Meaden summed it up for me in his Evo review video of the 981 GT4 at Portimao, I am paraphrasing. "the GT3 still hits heights that the GT4 cannot reach". Note he was talking in general terms about the GT3, not specifically the 996 GT3.
Also the engine in the GT4 could be better. In isolation it's a great power unit. If somebody can tell me you can now "X51 it" I would say drive down to RPM/JZM/9e etc and buy it immediately!!! But next to the Mezger it doesn't compete on an emotional level, Of course "it does the numbers" but that sort of misses the point. I came via a 981 Cayman S which (whisper it) has a nicer and freer revving engine than the GT4....
Both are great cars, don't get me wrong. You just need to be honest with yourself re: what you are looking for and also your level of ability behind the wheel too. I am convinced the process of learning the 996 GT3 has made me a better driver (on both road and track). Some days it's hard work though and other days it just feels so special. It's a real grower for me.
Both still cool looking cars to my eyes. This perspective is a bit distorting but the GT4 looks a lot "chunkier" next to the GT3. Was interesting running these cars side-by-side for a while. As I said earlier, GT4 overall a much easier ownership proposition, but I like how you can more easily tailor the GT3 to your tastes with mods.
Digga said:
here's a bass note, lower down the rev range, where IMHO it actually tops the Mezger. It very, very good and, let's face it, more than powerful enough.
That's a fair point - the GT4 goes through what 3 or 4 changes of tone through the rev range. It's quite hard to describe but those who have driven it (or any other 981) will recognise it.Basically the GT3 sounds s
t at low revs!BrotherMouzone said:
I agree with a lot of what’s been said about GT3/4 but I don’t agree with that.
GT3 engines go through various tone changes through the rev range too.
I was being flippant as you might have gathered. There is however definitely less drama lower down the rev range in the 996 but the sound is altogether more "authentic" than the GT4 through low and mid revs. At the top end there is simply no contest, of course. Mezger for the win.GT3 engines go through various tone changes through the rev range too.
All IMHO.
Harris_I said:
I was thinking of ditching my old 996 and trying a modern Evora instead, but this thread is convincing me I need to bring Cobalt Blue out of hibernation in the Spring and apologise for ever thinking of cheating on her.
I decided to make a change and moved my (admittedly 997) GT3 on in favour of getting an Evora. I'm just not sure I can bring myself to do it though!Heathrow said:
GT4 is very easy to drive quickly on a circuit and makes you look good. It has a better inherent balance which some people may enjoy. For me the 996 GT3 is more of a challenge to extract the best out of it. The peeling back layers of an onion analogy springs to mind. The GT4 is more like a satsuma.
On the road, the 981 GT4 has so much grip vs power/torque you can never really get near its limits unless you are reckless IMHO. The GT3 has lower overall grip levels and is more exploitable as a result. But they are very sensitive to set up - I've come to the conclusion that you either need a full track set up or a road set up, the compromise in the middle is difficult to achieve. Tyres make a big difference too since the Cup 2s rob the GT3 of some much needed compliance on the road.
Richard Meaden summed it up for me in his Evo review video of the 981 GT4 at Portimao, I am paraphrasing. "the GT3 still hits heights that the GT4 cannot reach". Note he was talking in general terms about the GT3, not specifically the 996 GT3.
Also the engine in the GT4 could be better. In isolation it's a great power unit. If somebody can tell me you can now "X51 it" I would say drive down to RPM/JZM/9e etc and buy it immediately!!! But next to the Mezger it doesn't compete on an emotional level, Of course "it does the numbers" but that sort of misses the point. I came via a 981 Cayman S which (whisper it) has a nicer and freer revving engine than the GT4....
Both are great cars, don't get me wrong. You just need to be honest with yourself re: what you are looking for and also your level of ability behind the wheel too. I am convinced the process of learning the 996 GT3 has made me a better driver (on both road and track). Some days it's hard work though and other days it just feels so special. It's a real grower for me.
I do agree with the above. I would just add that I find the GT4 is beautifully in that sweet spot so whenever you make a change, roll bars, or camber, or toe you can really feel the difference, and more importantly it seems to react in the way it should react according to the theory. Which is not how I remember the GT3! I got a lot out of playing with the GT4 and setting it up how I wanted it.On the road, the 981 GT4 has so much grip vs power/torque you can never really get near its limits unless you are reckless IMHO. The GT3 has lower overall grip levels and is more exploitable as a result. But they are very sensitive to set up - I've come to the conclusion that you either need a full track set up or a road set up, the compromise in the middle is difficult to achieve. Tyres make a big difference too since the Cup 2s rob the GT3 of some much needed compliance on the road.
Richard Meaden summed it up for me in his Evo review video of the 981 GT4 at Portimao, I am paraphrasing. "the GT3 still hits heights that the GT4 cannot reach". Note he was talking in general terms about the GT3, not specifically the 996 GT3.
Also the engine in the GT4 could be better. In isolation it's a great power unit. If somebody can tell me you can now "X51 it" I would say drive down to RPM/JZM/9e etc and buy it immediately!!! But next to the Mezger it doesn't compete on an emotional level, Of course "it does the numbers" but that sort of misses the point. I came via a 981 Cayman S which (whisper it) has a nicer and freer revving engine than the GT4....
Both are great cars, don't get me wrong. You just need to be honest with yourself re: what you are looking for and also your level of ability behind the wheel too. I am convinced the process of learning the 996 GT3 has made me a better driver (on both road and track). Some days it's hard work though and other days it just feels so special. It's a real grower for me.
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