993 values

[hornbaek]

chrisgaia said:

Hi there!

I have watched prices closely over the last 3 years and have seen 3.2 double in value. I turned down a white cad supersport for £16500 3 years back because of the gearbox and clutch were shot and it needed a new hood. I could have spent £5G on it and still made £10G profit...or just had free 3.2 enjoyment for the next 15 years! I am not even going to mention 3.3 Turbos because they were a dream that slowly drifted out of reach.

I think that 993s have been expensive for a long time and have recently become a bit more expensive.

This week I finally put my money where my mouth is!!! I have just bagged a '94 993 cab tip with 92000 for £19,350 and I am feeling quite pleased with myself. I know it's not a manual coupe vario but if anyone wants to lend me another £10G I will happily buy one She looks very clean bar a few stone chips. Needs tax and a service but I still think I have done well. Getting her PPi'd on Thurs with Chelsea Carrera and then have some fun!

If you can bear the looks of a 996, then these are the bargain of the century. Most of the dodgy engines would have blown up by now and they are still a great drive for £10G. They will come back in fashion as 964s did, you watch!

Chris

Congratulations on your purchase. Not to spoil the experience, but Im quite sure that you can easily spend another 10k on that car just to attend a couple of things that need repairing/exchanging in order to bring it up to date. But you started low so you should still be in the money after that!

[mollytherocker]

hornbaek said:

Congratulations on your purchase. Not to spoil the experience, but Im quite sure that you can easily spend another 10k on that car just to attend a couple of things that need repairing/exchanging in order to bring it up to date. But you started low so you should still be in the money after that!

Thats a pessimistic figure, especially if you buy carefully. Any old car needs major work regularly, but the fact that the 993 is currently appreciating offsets this to a major degree.

[Mario149]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Having recently had PSS10s and a front strut brace fitted with a trip to centre gravity, I know what you mean and as a result, combined with the hollow spoke turbo wheels, I probably have one of the best driving Cabs in the country

But, that said, if I had £30k to spend on a weekend car, it'd go somewhere like this (although this is strong money for a LHD IMO, epic colour combo though) before it went on a 993: http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...

[Mario149]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Bang on, they were even better value about 4 years ago when I bought my 355....a decent mid miles one of them could be had for £35k, same mileage 348 for £10k less! And a trip somewhere to get the suspension set up properly would likely cure the "infamous" handling.

As for robustness, I can honestly say they're not in the same league as a 993, but then as a weekend car you'd probably only be doing 5k miles a year at the most, probably less. 348/355 interiors don't wear nearly as well, stone chips abound and Italian electrics will likely rear their head where the German wouldn't, but mechanically I think 90s V8 ferraris get a bad rap compared to the reality of it. But, parts are more expensive and people tend to use expensive specialists (of which I have been guilty) where in reality almost all of it can be done by a trustworthy "regular" mechanic at half the hourly rate judging what I've seen in 4 years.

Edited by Mario149 on Thursday 27th March 08:06

[Outliar]

I have just bought a C4 coupe manual, picked her up today, and have to say I am really pleased. I was lucky it already had lowered suspension with H&R springs and dampers, turbo wheels, nice spec with sports seats, Becker Grand Prix stereo, sunroof, aircon (working), and she's in lovely condition inside and out. Loads of history, she's been looked after. Colour is arena red metallic, which I wasn't initially sure about until I saw it in the flesh. Now I really like it, lovely looking car. With 76k miles I paid 30k, from a dealer (Phil Raby). About the going rate from a dealer, 6 months warranty included, and since I plan to keep her for quite some time I feel confident values will steadily increase. IMO they are the loveliest 911 shape after the chrome bumpered early cars, and at these prices are still usable cars to enjoy.

On the test drive I thought the engine note was a bit too subdued, so I had RSR mufflers fitted before I picked her up today. The sound is lovely now, a bit more raw and throaty, but not OTT. Haven't been on a long motorway trip yet though, so will have to see. On the lowered suspension and sporty springs the car is like a go-kart, quite a firm ride but not crashy. It's early days, but seems a nice setup for a weekend/fun car. The lowered suspensions looks great too, giving the car a nice stance. Before picking the car up I had been wondering should I have looked for a 964 which would be a bit more raw 911 to drive and probably will gain more value yet. But driving it today I'm pleased I went for the 993. Objectively it's a better car, better looking, and I suspect the 964 prices may end up pulling up the 993s over time as the 993 is currently a bit in the shadow of the 964 which in my view makes it a good time to buy if you are wanting a car to keep for some time. Not a collectors car in this model/spec, too many were made, but as last of the air cooled cars and a manual coupe, good ones will always be sought after I think.

But the best bit is the drive. I'm looking forward to getting to know the car better this summer. Yes a Ferrari might have more sense of occasion and drama, but there is a really satisfying feel about the 993, and I think the subtle mods on this car help make it feel a bit more special. Plus the kids can come with me!

[Outliar]

Just one thing to add... I was really looking for a rear drive car when I started looking, but the C4 drove so nicely I immediately put my prejudice aside. Okay, for track work perhaps you'd notice, but I really don't think it matters 99% of the time. But early days for me, so others can probably offer a more experienced view.

[dino_jr]

I notice hexagon have bumped their turbo prices again... 115k anyone?
http://www.hexagonmodernclassics.com/car_sales/Por...

You could pay off my mortgage with that money! What's your value limit before a car is too valuable to drive? Especially as 993's are daily drives for many...

[carcrazypop]

Outliar said:

I have just bought a C4 coupe manual, picked her up today, and have to say I am really pleased. I was lucky it already had lowered suspension with H&R springs and dampers, turbo wheels, nice spec with sports seats, Becker Grand Prix stereo, sunroof, aircon (working), and she's in lovely condition inside and out. Loads of history, she's been looked after. Colour is arena red metallic, which I wasn't initially sure about until I saw it in the flesh. Now I really like it, lovely looking car. With 76k miles I paid 30k, from a dealer (Phil Raby). About the going rate from a dealer, 6 months warranty included, and since I plan to keep her for quite some time I feel confident values will steadily increase. IMO they are the loveliest 911 shape after the chrome bumpered early cars, and at these prices are still usable cars to enjoy.

On the test drive I thought the engine note was a bit too subdued, so I had RSR mufflers fitted before I picked her up today. The sound is lovely now, a bit more raw and throaty, but not OTT. Haven't been on a long motorway trip yet though, so will have to see. On the lowered suspension and sporty springs the car is like a go-kart, quite a firm ride but not crashy. It's early days, but seems a nice setup for a weekend/fun car. The lowered suspensions looks great too, giving the car a nice stance. Before picking the car up I had been wondering should I have looked for a 964 which would be a bit more raw 911 to drive and probably will gain more value yet. But driving it today I'm pleased I went for the 993. Objectively it's a better car, better looking, and I suspect the 964 prices may end up pulling up the 993s over time as the 993 is currently a bit in the shadow of the 964 which in my view makes it a good time to buy if you are wanting a car to keep for some time. Not a collectors car in this model/spec, too many were made, but as last of the air cooled cars and a manual coupe, good ones will always be sought after I think.

But the best bit is the drive. I'm looking forward to getting to know the car better this summer. Yes a Ferrari might have more sense of occasion and drama, but there is a really satisfying feel about the 993, and I think the subtle mods on this car help make it feel a bit more special. Plus the kids can come with me!

Congratulations, that looks a superb car and Phil Raby seems to have a good reputation. If I hadn't already purchased my 993 I would have been in for that one like a shot, and yes, arena red is one of the best colours

[mollytherocker]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I agree to a degree. Looks in order;

GT2
RS
S
Carrera
Turbo
Targa
Cab

That should get some comments!

[chrisgaia]

Got the '94 993 cab tip mentioned above PPI'd and long list of stuff to do...All prices ex VAT


Major service £475
Steering rack over hall due to leak £650
Spoiler wall split and bearing £200
2 horns £120
Battery £85

£1550 + VAT

Then non-immediate: roof not lifting clean £280, brake calipers £300, light bulbs £90, bonnet stays £50, brake fluid,secure fuse box. £850 + VAT

and long term: rear bumper stays £350, cat heat shields £250, air-con not cold £?? and some other small items.

Does that amount of work sound like the norm or not!!??

Edited by chrisgaia on Saturday 29th March 14:31

[stevewak]

chrisgaia said:

Got the '94 993 cab tip mentioned above PPI'd and long list of stuff to do...All prices ex VAT


Major service £475 SOUNDS OK
Steering rack over hall due to leak £650 KNOWN PROBLEM IF NOT ALREADY DONE
Spoiler wall split and bearing £200 DON'T KNOW
2 horns £120 DON'T KNOW
Battery £85 CORRECT

£1550 + VAT

Then non-immediate: roof not lifting clean £280, brake calipers £300, light bulbs £90, bonnet stays £50, brake fluid,secure fuse box. £850 + VAT - FAIR BUT I WOULD DO BRAKE FLUID IN SERVICE ABOVE.

and long term: rear bumper stays £350, cat heat shields £250, air-con not cold £?? and some other small items. ONLY ISSUE HERE IS AIR-CON - COULD BE ANYTHING AND UNTIL EVAPORATOR IS DONE (TANK OUT, DASH OUT, £1000 OR SO) IF NEEDED, YOU CAN CHASE THIS ONE AROUND. REASSURING TO SEE YOU WERE NOT PROMISED 'JUST A RE-GAS'. SMALL TWEAKS MIGHT GET IT GOING.

Does that amount of work sound like the norm or not!!?? ON BALANCE, 'YES' - I DON'T THINK ANY OF THESE ARE DEAL-BREAKERS IF YOU CAN KNOCK A BIT OFF. BUT DO BE PREPARED TO BUDGET FOR THEM OVER 2 OR 3 YEARS... AND HOPE VALUE HAS KEPT UP WITH COSTS...

Edited by chrisgaia on Saturday 29th March 14:31

So no rust, squeaky screen etc. Good.

Don't feel compelled to get work done by PPI-er, by the way, but they do sound sensible.

[chrisgaia]

Thanks very much Steve, that is really helpful mate!

[stevewak]

chrisgaia said:

Thanks very much Steve, that is really helpful mate!

Pleasure.

I don't want to be a bad influence but if you DID buy it and then had the full service that figure might expand a bit, but you'd have a 'base' on which to build.

Without tempting fate, these cars do not suddenly 'go bang'. The engine is strong. Many things need doing ONCE (rack, a/c, rear bumper supports, rusty screen) then you can forget about them. I bought my coupe at a goodish price last year (asking price) and then spent £1600 on full service with new plugs and some belts plus lower cam covers (yours were OK, I assume) clutch slave cylinder (you don't have one) and rattly window channel caused by rust. Since then, one other visit for poor a/c and had a re-gas and front fan resistors done (£450).

Now, after 3000 miles, booked in for 'minor' service in April with a/c sensor clean - I am sure my calipers are corroded, bumper supports rusty and various other bits replaceable but will leave it as it is for time being.

[Orangecurry]

chrisgaia said:

Got the '94 993 cab tip mentioned above PPI'd and long list of stuff to do...All prices ex VAT


Major service £475
Steering rack over hall due to leak £650
Spoiler wall split and bearing £200
2 horns £120
Battery £85

£1550 + VAT

Then non-immediate: roof not lifting clean £280, brake calipers £300, light bulbs £90, bonnet stays £50, brake fluid,secure fuse box. £850 + VAT

and long term: rear bumper stays £350, cat heat shields £250, air-con not cold £?? and some other small items.

Does that amount of work sound like the norm or not!!??

Edited by chrisgaia on Saturday 29th March 14:31

I'd use that to negotiate on sale-price, and then shop around for a 'major' service. This should be a plug-change, so ask for all 12 plugs back from the garage who does change them so you can inspect the plugs to see how it is running.

Get a 2nd opinion on the rack, do the spoiler-wall and bearing yourself (yes you can), no idea what '2 horns' means - has it got an MOT? - battery I think you can manage yourself.

Brake calipers? What is the issue?
Light bulbs 90 quid?
Bonnet stays you can do yourself
Brake fluid? if you get the calipers 'done' that would be changed anyway.

Bumper stays 350?

The great thing about the 993 is that it is like a huge meccano set - you CAN take it all apart, learn about it, AND put it all back together with no parts left over.

Edited by Orangecurry on Saturday 29th March 22:04

[chrisgaia]

Orangecurry said:

I'd use that to negotiate on sale-price, and then shop around for a 'major' service. This should be a plug-change, so ask for all 12 plugs back from the garage who does change them so you can inspect the plugs to see how it is running.

Get a 2nd opinion on the rack, do the spoiler-wall and bearing yourself (yes you can), no idea what '2 horns' means - has it got an MOT? - battery I think you can manage yourself.

Brake calipers? What is the issue?
Light bulbs 90 quid?
Bonnet stays you can do yourself
Brake fluid? if you get the calipers 'done' that would be changed anyway.

Bumper stays 350?

The great thing about the 993 is that it is like a huge meccano set - you CAN take it all apart, learn about it, AND put it all back together with no parts left over.

Edited by Orangecurry on Saturday 29th March 22:04

Cheers Jonathan! I am inspired. I'd love to get stuck in to the spoiler issue myself. What would I look for in the plugs (excuse my greeness!)?

• Do you think £475 is high for a major? I thought it was good but maybe inc brake fluid would push it up.

• Yeah I am negotiating price for the 'immediate stuff' like service, steering rack, spoiler, horns and battery, but can't really expect a perfect specimen (getting the advisory and longer term stuff done) for the reasonable asking price. The seller and the guy who PPI'd are discussing getting the work done between themselves which makes me a bit nervous.

• The seller is obviously trying to say that a leaking steering rack may be nothing but my best mate (who owns Classic Connection, Ringwood) said get it done. Is there a chance its no big deal?

• Front brake caliper plates lifting (Advisory). I did find the brakes a bit unresponsive but put it down to lack of use. Do 993 brakes usually require quite a shove?

• 1 horn gone, he says and other on the way out. Presuming that's a dual horn then.

• MOT don't know and battery I will take a pop at even though my mate said that was a really good price. How much is a battery?

• 6 brake lights, I presume from central spoiler brake light. (advisory)

• Rear bumper stays, heat shields and fixings need replacing (advisory)

Apologies, a lot of info there!

[Outliar]

carcrazypop said:

Outliar said:

I have just bought a C4 coupe manual, picked her up today, and have to say I am really pleased. I was lucky it already had lowered suspension with H&R springs and dampers, turbo wheels, nice spec with sports seats, Becker Grand Prix stereo, sunroof, aircon (working), and she's in lovely condition inside and out. Loads of history, she's been looked after. Colour is arena red metallic, which I wasn't initially sure about until I saw it in the flesh. Now I really like it, lovely looking car. With 76k miles I paid 30k, from a dealer (Phil Raby). About the going rate from a dealer, 6 months warranty included, and since I plan to keep her for quite some time I feel confident values will steadily increase. IMO they are the loveliest 911 shape after the chrome bumpered early cars, and at these prices are still usable cars to enjoy.

On the test drive I thought the engine note was a bit too subdued, so I had RSR mufflers fitted before I picked her up today. The sound is lovely now, a bit more raw and throaty, but not OTT. Haven't been on a long motorway trip yet though, so will have to see. On the lowered suspension and sporty springs the car is like a go-kart, quite a firm ride but not crashy. It's early days, but seems a nice setup for a weekend/fun car. The lowered suspensions looks great too, giving the car a nice stance. Before picking the car up I had been wondering should I have looked for a 964 which would be a bit more raw 911 to drive and probably will gain more value yet. But driving it today I'm pleased I went for the 993. Objectively it's a better car, better looking, and I suspect the 964 prices may end up pulling up the 993s over time as the 993 is currently a bit in the shadow of the 964 which in my view makes it a good time to buy if you are wanting a car to keep for some time. Not a collectors car in this model/spec, too many were made, but as last of the air cooled cars and a manual coupe, good ones will always be sought after I think.

But the best bit is the drive. I'm looking forward to getting to know the car better this summer. Yes a Ferrari might have more sense of occasion and drama, but there is a really satisfying feel about the 993, and I think the subtle mods on this car help make it feel a bit more special. Plus the kids can come with me!

Congratulations, that looks a superb car and Phil Raby seems to have a good reputation. If I hadn't already purchased my 993 I would have been in for that one like a shot, and yes, arena red is one of the best colours

Thanks, yes Phil has been good to deal with. As a long time Porsche journalist he's knowledgable, and down to earth, and doesn't really overtly sell (which of course is a great way to sell!). I was lucky with my timing, this was actually the first Porsche I saw, which is a real no-no in theory. But I've been following these cars and thinking of buying for years, and had previously driven a 911SC, 964 and 993. I was actually just going in to talk with him about choice of models, as I live down the road from his showroom, and I was thinking of commissioning him to find me an early chrome bumper 911 or 964. This car had just come in, and was not even prepared and hadn't been marketed. Phil offered me a drive, and who wouldn't?! I thought about it a few days, and Phil agreed to hold the car (without taking any deposit, though I did offer) until my wife and I could go back and look again. The more I thought about it, the more the car grew on me. We shook hands when I went back, and Phil told me he'd had about 6 enquiries since my visit, so I would probably have lost out had I not popped in for that chat.

Whilst we are both undoubtedly biased having bought one, I really think the 993 is a lovely looking car. And I also think the coupe variant is prettiest, without a fixed spoiler. The narrow body is very curvy at the rear, one of the prettiest rears of any car IMO. Only the front spoiler would look better with a bit more styling.

[Mario149]

chrisgaia said:

• Front brake caliper plates lifting (Advisory). I did find the brakes a bit unresponsive but put it down to lack of use. Do 993 brakes usually require quite a shove?

I had all four callipers refurbed, new plates and a couple of the pipes redone and my brake pedal went from being very firm to being a bit softer with much more feel. Plus they look all shiny and new (they were black) and really lift the look of the car. Cost me £600, well worth it for me.

[carcrazypop]

Outliar said:

Thanks, yes Phil has been good to deal with. As a long time Porsche journalist he's knowledgable, and down to earth, and doesn't really overtly sell (which of course is a great way to sell!). I was lucky with my timing, this was actually the first Porsche I saw, which is a real no-no in theory. But I've been following these cars and thinking of buying for years, and had previously driven a 911SC, 964 and 993. I was actually just going in to talk with him about choice of models, as I live down the road from his showroom, and I was thinking of commissioning him to find me an early chrome bumper 911 or 964. This car had just come in, and was not even prepared and hadn't been marketed. Phil offered me a drive, and who wouldn't?! I thought about it a few days, and Phil agreed to hold the car (without taking any deposit, though I did offer) until my wife and I could go back and look again. The more I thought about it, the more the car grew on me. We shook hands when I went back, and Phil told me he'd had about 6 enquiries since my visit, so I would probably have lost out had I not popped in for that chat.

Whilst we are both undoubtedly biased having bought one, I really think the 993 is a lovely looking car. And I also think the coupe variant is prettiest, without a fixed spoiler. The narrow body is very curvy at the rear, one of the prettiest rears of any car IMO. Only the front spoiler would look better with a bit more styling.

Mine's a narrow body and I also don't really like the front bumper that much compared to an 'S' model with the turbo front bumper; I spoke to Ninemeister and they confirmed that I could fit a turbo front bumper to mine and also include air ducts. I went ahead and had this done and I now think the front end looks brilliant so maybe worth considering, have a look at my profile picture. Good Luck.

[chrisgaia]

Mario149 said:

I had all four callipers refurbed, new plates and a couple of the pipes redone and my brake pedal went from being very firm to being a bit softer with much more feel. Plus they look all shiny and new (they were black) and really lift the look of the car. Cost me £600, well worth it for me.

Yeah, sounds like a good idea Mario. BTW I absolutely love that colour combo. Looks amazing. Varioram manual?

Edited by chrisgaia on Sunday 30th March 15:47

[Outliar]

Mario149 said:

I had all four callipers refurbed, new plates and a couple of the pipes redone and my brake pedal went from being very firm to being a bit softer with much more feel. Plus they look all shiny and new (they were black) and really lift the look of the car. Cost me £600, well worth it for me.

She looks absolutely lovely... my brakes require quite a shove at slow speeds, the car hasn't done much mileage in the last 12 months before I bought it (about 1000 miles) so I will wait and see if it improves with use. At speed I haven't really noticed any problem at all, so it must be working fine. Perhaps a job for the winter...

Have fun.