2017 GTS (Manual or PDK)

[Gorsh]

I'm a little wary of journalists harping on about manual, living with the PDK is brilliant in all types of driving (let's face it we spend a lot of time in urban areas full of traffic), where they are on empty country roads or tracks.

Some things I want to hear about haven't been mentioned yet - like RWS and PDCC.

[silvermog]

Gorsh said:

Some things I want to hear about haven't been mentioned yet - like RWS and PDCC.

The Autocar video car is the same one that Pistonheads have reviewed, they itemised the spec and it was equipped with neither option.

PDCC I'm not surprised by as I think its "artificial" flatness got a generally negative tone in the earlier 991.1 reviews. RWS is somewhat surprising as after the GT3/Turbo positive reactions I'd have bet on its inclusion in many loaded review cars.

[AndyCGTS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVWNrHdc6Cg

This is another positive review, so its looking really good.

[Cheib]

I hadn't picked up on this elsewhere but there's a slight difference in the spec of the manual and pdk. From the Autocar review...

The detail changes even between GTS variants continues. If you spec a manual car, you get a mechanical limited-slip differential and Porsche Torque Vectoring (rear-wheelbraking). PDK models get an electronic limited-slip differential and PTV Plus. I swear there are as many Porsche initialisms as there are 911s. The ‘Plus’ bit means that the wheel braking is combined with control of the differential.

If you have PTV maybe you don't need RWS ? If I was speccing a manual I deffo wouldn't get RWS.

[Gorsh]

Cheib said:

I hadn't picked up on this elsewhere but there's a slight difference in the spec of the manual and pdk. From the Autocar review...

The detail changes even between GTS variants continues. If you spec a manual car, you get a mechanical limited-slip differential and Porsche Torque Vectoring (rear-wheelbraking). PDK models get an electronic limited-slip differential and PTV Plus. I swear there are as many Porsche initialisms as there are 911s. The ‘Plus’ bit means that the wheel braking is combined with control of the differential.

If you have PTV maybe you don't need RWS ? If I was speccing a manual I deffo wouldn't get RWS.

I'd notice that from looking through the standard features of the C GTS on the configurator. RWS is something I'm unsure of, I plan to keep the car for several years so I'm wondering about added maintenance costs, and when parts get a bit worn what effect does it have (rear tracking out, noisy in operation etc). Having said that it gets good reviews from owners so I imagine the turn in is better with it - but is that marginal and does it matter for road use?

[Cheib]

Gorsh said:

Cheib said:

I hadn't picked up on this elsewhere but there's a slight difference in the spec of the manual and pdk. From the Autocar review...

The detail changes even between GTS variants continues. If you spec a manual car, you get a mechanical limited-slip differential and Porsche Torque Vectoring (rear-wheelbraking). PDK models get an electronic limited-slip differential and PTV Plus. I swear there are as many Porsche initialisms as there are 911s. The ‘Plus’ bit means that the wheel braking is combined with control of the differential.

If you have PTV maybe you don't need RWS ? If I was speccing a manual I deffo wouldn't get RWS.

I'd notice that from looking through the standard features of the C GTS on the configurator. RWS is something I'm unsure of, I plan to keep the car for several years so I'm wondering about added maintenance costs, and when parts get a bit worn what effect does it have (rear tracking out, noisy in operation etc). Having said that it gets good reviews from owners so I imagine the turn in is better with it - but is that marginal and does it matter for road use?

If you're not going to keep it warrantied I would things like RWS and also the Sunroof. Personally I think RWS on a 911 just isn't needed.

[Robbo66]

Love the colour on that, grey looks sublime. Still not a fan of the 991 as a manual, in any guise.

Pricing too close to a 991 GT3, and they will drop shortly with the release of the 991.2 GT3.

991 GT3 or 997 GTS a better bet for me personally.

[Gorsh]

Robbo66 said:

Love the colour on that, grey looks sublime. Still not a fan of the 991 as a manual, in any guise.

That must be Graphite Blue?
It's a colour I have considered - if I see one in the flesh and I like it then I might feel brave enough to choose it.

[dvshannow]

m88ony said:

rbh said:

Finalised my order, deposit down now the wait. Build early to mid March may get it prior to the tax rises.

Good idea!

do you think thats likely being told May if lucky

[Cheib]

Robbo66 said:

Pricing too close to a 991 GT3, and they will drop shortly with the release of the 991.2 GT3.

991 GT3 or 997 GTS a better bet for me personally.

It's certainly food for thought. Be very interesting to see what 991 GT3 prices look like in six to nine months. Of course if 991.2 GT3 prices are stratospheric once they are inevitably flipped it could have the opposite effect. I remember someone speculating on here they could be £170k which seems high to me!

[Robbo66]

Cheib said:

Robbo66 said:

Pricing too close to a 991 GT3, and they will drop shortly with the release of the 991.2 GT3.

991 GT3 or 997 GTS a better bet for me personally.

It's certainly food for thought. Be very interesting to see what 991 GT3 prices look like in six to nine months. Of course if 991.2 GT3 prices are stratospheric once they are inevitably flipped it could have the opposite effect. I remember someone speculating on here they could be £170k which seems high to me!

It's a souped up C2S, or a souped 'down' GT3 with a 'turbo'. Whatever way you look at it, £110k approx, is too close to the GT3 money-wise. I'd take a GT4 at overs before this.

[m88ony]

Robbo66 said:

It's a souped up C2S, or a souped 'down' GT3 with a 'turbo'. Whatever way you look at it, £110k approx, is too close to the GT3 money-wise. I'd take a GT4 at overs before this.

Souped up C2S. You cant compare a GTS to a GT3 or even a GT4. Rear seats and practicality aims the GTS to a different market to the cars you mention above which are ultimately track cars.

[Robbo66]

m88ony said:

Robbo66 said:

It's a souped up C2S, or a souped 'down' GT3 with a 'turbo'. Whatever way you look at it, £110k approx, is too close to the GT3 money-wise. I'd take a GT4 at overs before this.

Souped up C2S. You cant compare a GTS to a GT3 or even a GT4. Rear seats and practicality aims the GTS to a different market to the cars you mention above which are ultimately track cars.

You can when they're similar money. How often does one seriously use rear seats in a 911. The market for the GTS at £110k is microscopic.Most would be happy with the C2S if they want to lug kids about, or buy the GT3 / GT4 and a runaround. The 911 is hardly a 'family' car.

[SL550M]

Cheib said:

Robbo66 said:

Pricing too close to a 991 GT3, and they will drop shortly with the release of the 991.2 GT3.

991 GT3 or 997 GTS a better bet for me personally.

It's certainly food for thought. Be very interesting to see what 991 GT3 prices look like in six to nine months. Of course if 991.2 GT3 prices are stratospheric once they are inevitably flipped it could have the opposite effect. I remember someone speculating on here they could be £170k which seems high to me!

Sorry to drag this thread into the murky waters of prices, but this is quite pertinent for me as I'm contemplating a 991.1 GT3. I'm a bit out of touch with the Porsche GT marketplace, so any thoughts from those 'in the know' would be much appreciated. Don't want to take a major hit in the space of a few months.

[av185]

Cheib said:

Robbo66 said:

Pricing too close to a 991 GT3, and they will drop shortly with the release of the 991.2 GT3.

991 GT3 or 997 GTS a better bet for me personally.

It's certainly food for thought. Be very interesting to see what 991 GT3 prices look like in six to nine months. Of course if 991.2 GT3 prices are stratospheric once they are inevitably flipped it could have the opposite effect. I remember someone speculating on here they could be £170k which seems high to me!

Latest thoughts suggest the first few cars flipped may reach 991 GT3 RS money which appear stabilised around £215k ish.

Don't forget the 991.1 GT3 hit £170k ish+ at their peak.

[Robbo66]

The 991 GT3 is a great car. I would certainly hold out as feel they will soften, N/A or not.
Same with 991RS. The GTS should be circa £90k well optioned. Good car, but market limited IMV, as most would push the button on the GT3 for a little extra, unless they need to carry children about. need to be a brave man ordering a GTS now.

[av185]

SL550M said:

Sorry to drag this thread into the murky waters of prices, but this is quite pertinent for me as I'm contemplating a 991.1 GT3. I'm a bit out of touch with the Porsche GT marketplace, so any thoughts from those 'in the know' would be much appreciated. Don't want to take a major hit in the space of a few months.

The imminent announcement of the 991.2 GT3 together with the seasonal slowdown has eroded 991.1 residuals as expected. Whilst there could well be around 50 percent more 991.2 i.e 500 ish this is still relatively few and the sheer abilities of the 991.1will support residuals as will the likely premiums on the new car.

Now could actually be a good time to get into a 991.1 GT3 as prices will be further lifted in the Spring. But spec is crucial and don't forget these cars are extremely mileage sensitive.

[tuffer]

Robbo66 said:

The 991 GT3 is a great car. I would certainly hold out as feel they will soften, N/A or not.
Same with 991RS. The GTS should be circa £90k well optioned. Good car, but market limited IMV, as most would push the button on the GT3 for a little extra, unless they need to carry children about. need to be a brave man ordering a GTS now.

But you can actually get a GTS, chances of getting a GT3 are pretty slim unless you have a long and illustrious history with the OPC.

[HokumPokum]

GTS can double as a 2+2. gt3 cannot
GTS has parking sensors, GT3 does not
GTS can have sunroof, GT3 cannot
GTS can have burmeister, GT3 cannot
GTS has torque, GT3 does not.
GTS has better weather protection...


I mean, in the typical porsche way, theres a real halfway house now. Why get a Gt3 when it doesn't fit your lifestyle?
in reality, the population of porsche drivers that actually track more than 3 or 4 times a year is quite rare. In fact, most don't track their cars other than the odd time out.
why get a gt3? for re-sale? it's like a pyramid scam, when people begin to realise that track ready cars are actually more of a pain..then the resale values will drop to what it was like in the late 2000s and in line with GTS, which is actually an ace compromise car.

I think all mags are alluding to that fact.

If only lotus had a PDK gearbox............

[Robbo66]

tuffer said:

But you can actually get a GTS, chances of getting a GT3 are pretty slim unless you have a long and illustrious history with the OPC.

Whether you have a long history or not, does not guarantee you a car believe me. I was referring to a used 991 GT3, not the new model due out.