I think I have decided to buy a 996 Turbo manual...

[shantybeater]

TwinExit said:

There are so many other examples on the market that has promised evidence of work done and parts refreshed that you would struggle to sell your own example had nothing significant invested on... the informed potential buyer doesn't care if the car has given you 5 years of fun and laughs, or especially those who brag they got 180 MPH in Germany few years back ... it is all about how many years of solid motoring the car will give the buyer and the x amount required to secure that ownership experience.

Just because your car never needed turbos replacing (or insert any other significant item refresh) it does not mean that within a month, 6 months or a year after the purchase these problems don't come crawling out of the woodwork.

I think you are missing my point a bit here. You state there needs to be proof of ALL of that work done in the last three years which is absolute tosh. As an example the Turbos on mine have lasted 20 years (yes ok garaged and not driven in salty weather). So you have a cat in hells chance most 996T's need Turbo refreshes every three years unless they are driven 100,000 miles a year with a detour to bathe in the sea once a week.

Again, coilpacks, intercoolers, radiators (with grilles in place) do not need replacing unless advised or the car shows a symptom of fault. A radiator needs replacing when it starts to leak or rot, same for an intercooler etc... Most of the items you specified as needing replacement either give off indicators (e.g. lumpy running on coils, boost leak on IC's, coolant low or sweet smell/patches near condensers). All of which any specialist will pick up on via an inspection during a service or you will notice via a fault.

I stand by my point, get an inspection done, look for reputable service history with health reports (and evidence of any issues resolved). If you find a lottery car which happens to have ALL of it's consumables replaced in the last 36 months then good for you! But since some on that list are capable of lasting 20 years (if well cared for) I wouldn't make it some sort of requirement, you'll never find one.

Edited by shantybeater on Monday 12th December 22:30

[shantybeater]

TwinExit said:

No one will offer you £38K for a car that has had most of its work done in your shed with parts you ordered off the internet, when you can pick up an example worked on and sold by a specialist for the same money.

Also tosh, get the car serviced at a reputable specialist and keep history/health reports, and document any rectifications you make yourself. Never been a problem for any of the cars I have sold - point a buyer to a progress thread online showing the work YOU have carried out with receipts - it will only play to your advantage showing how you have looked after the car. Far better than an overpaid apprentice working on it who gives zero s**ts about it.

Edited by shantybeater on Monday 12th December 22:31

[shantybeater]

marky911 said:

Even £1k is nuts.
Buy a car and just wait until the next major service to stick a set in. No labour to pay as the garage will have the plugs out anyway.

No wonder some folk get ripped off if they can’t plan in a bit of preventative maintenance.

Common sense prevails. They happen to need removing when the plugs are done, so £60 when visible cracks OR when rectifying an issue. If one goes, best to do the set to avoid a repeat in the near future.

Edited by shantybeater on Monday 12th December 22:28

[TwinExit]

shantybeater said:

I think you are missing my point a bit here. You state there needs to be proof of ALL of that work done in the last three years which is absolute tosh. As an example the Turbos on mine have lasted 20 years (yes ok garaged and not driven in salty weather). So you have a cat in hells chance most 996T's need Turbo refreshes every three years unless they are driven 100,000 miles a year with a detour to bathe in the sea once a week.

Again, coilpacks, intercoolers, radiators (with grilles in place) do not need replacing unless advised or the car shows a symptom of fault. A radiator needs replacing when it starts to leak or rot, same for an intercooler etc... Most of the items you specified as needing replacement either give off indicators (e.g. lumpy running on coils, boost leak on IC's, coolant low or sweet smell/patches near condensers). All of which any specialist will pick up on via an inspection during a service or you will notice via a fault.

I stand by my point, get an inspection done, look for reputable service history with health reports (and evidence of any issues resolved). If you find a lottery car which happens to have ALL of it's consumables replaced in the last 36 months then good for you! But since some on that list are capable of lasting 20 years (if well cared for) I wouldn't make it some sort of requirement, you'll never find one.

It is an uncomfortable ask, but if you carefully go through recent and future adverts for the 996T, it is not difficult to find examples out there that have had recent & pricey part refreshes done, whilst still asking for similar money as cars that has the original 20+ year old moving parts or those that have blatantly omitted any proper upkeep through the approved channels.

No one in their better judgement and have done their research would opt for the latter examples.

Inspections only show you how things are prior to the point of sale, and you cannot realistically get a health projection on (for example) turbochargers at viewing. Itself, along side various other items are of common failure, pertaining to this certain make / model of car and will eventually fail or perform well under spec for a car like this.

So just because you got lucky with a minimal spend ownership and the inspection does not expose fault or wear on 20 year old parts, statistically they will fail and you simply pass on the risk & cost to the new owner at sale. It is quite feasible in the next 1K to 5K mile window that one or more of the component failures would manifest.

It's up to you to laugh this all off in typical PH fashion, but you'll find out the truth in the hard way when you decide to sell the car on.

[TwinExit]

marky911 said:

This is opinion not fact.

Opinion matters from a buyer's perspective, it makes the difference between a car being sold at the around the expected market value and those that are not sold at all.

The facts are fleshed out on the statistics on owners having footing the bill on expensive repairs/refresh in addition to routine upkeep and consumables. 5 minutes of looking at threads posts on Porsche based owner's club forums and adverts exposes this.

marky911 said:

By using the term shed you imply inferior work quality. And those parts bight off the internet can be the exact same ones a specialist will fit, but without their “bit on the top”.

You want at least the servicing done by an Indy, yes, and I’d say anything that involves opening up the engine or box.

Everything else from, suspension, to brakes, to air-con rads, etc etc is easily DIY’able.
The Indy would check it all over come service time anyway if you needed reassurance.

You can go into much more detail when DIY’ing. Cleaning up fixings, re-plating or coating things, etc. You can get a better finish than a mechanic as doing it DIY means it isn’t against the clock.

But hey, if you aren’t capable or you just like throwing money away, then sure, get your mechanic to all the jobs anyone with half a brain could.

DIY and Porsche 911 Turbo do not belong in the same sentence ... it screams cost-cutting and Dunning-Kruger. No one informed will want anything to do with that when most other examples on the market are taken care of by Porsche or in the trade specialists.

[David A]

TwinExit said:

shantybeater said:

I think you are missing my point a bit here. You state there needs to be proof of ALL of that work done in the last three years which is absolute tosh. As an example the Turbos on mine have lasted 20 years (yes ok garaged and not driven in salty weather). So you have a cat in hells chance most 996T's need Turbo refreshes every three years unless they are driven 100,000 miles a year with a detour to bathe in the sea once a week.

Again, coilpacks, intercoolers, radiators (with grilles in place) do not need replacing unless advised or the car shows a symptom of fault. A radiator needs replacing when it starts to leak or rot, same for an intercooler etc... Most of the items you specified as needing replacement either give off indicators (e.g. lumpy running on coils, boost leak on IC's, coolant low or sweet smell/patches near condensers). All of which any specialist will pick up on via an inspection during a service or you will notice via a fault.

I stand by my point, get an inspection done, look for reputable service history with health reports (and evidence of any issues resolved). If you find a lottery car which happens to have ALL of it's consumables replaced in the last 36 months then good for you! But since some on that list are capable of lasting 20 years (if well cared for) I wouldn't make it some sort of requirement, you'll never find one.

It is an uncomfortable ask, but if you carefully go through recent and future adverts for the 996T, it is not difficult to find examples out there that have had recent & pricey part refreshes done, whilst still asking for similar money as cars that has the original 20+ year old moving parts or those that have blatantly omitted any proper upkeep through the approved channels.

No one in their better judgement and have done their research would opt for the latter examples.

Inspections only show you how things are prior to the point of sale, and you cannot realistically get a health projection on (for example) turbochargers at viewing. Itself, along side various other items are of common failure, pertaining to this certain make / model of car and will eventually fail or perform well under spec for a car like this.

So just because you got lucky with a minimal spend ownership and the inspection does not expose fault or wear on 20 year old parts, statistically they will fail and you simply pass on the risk & cost to the new owner at sale. It is quite feasible in the next 1K to 5K mile window that one or more of the component failures would manifest.

It's up to you to laugh this all off in typical PH fashion, but you'll find out the truth in the hard way when you decide to sell the car on.

So in summary you’re saying that for identical cars ones with more maintenance and service history will attract a higher price? That is pretty normal for any car from a golf to a Bugatti isn’t it ?

If you’re saying that without history the car is only worth peanuts and won’t sell I would disagree, the point being cars get priced accordingly. There are cars at the high price end and low price end. Which are the 996 turbos without history that have gone for sub 20k or which ever price point you refer to?

[TwinExit]

fourwheeler said:

Very well said, Marky!

This "twinexit" guy seems to be more concerned with being able to sell the car later on.

I am illustrating the likely real-world cost and responsibility of ownership of a car such as a 996 Turbo over a respectable period of time i.e 3-5 years.

If you think oil changes and new rear tyres from blackcircles.com is the typical extent of it, you are greatly mistaken.

If you think wrenching on your 996T on axle stands every month outside your front door and ph1ssing-off the neighbours will still retain re-sale value, you are greatly mistaken.

If you ever intend on owning such a car for a long enough period, it will incur significant running spend, or you take the hit at re-sale (depreciation). Either way, it is not £1K-£2K a year like some on here claim.

[TwinExit]

David A said:

So in summary you’re saying that for identical cars ones with more maintenance and service history will attract a higher price? That is pretty normal for any car from a golf to a Bugatti isn’t it ?

If you’re saying that without history the car is only worth peanuts and won’t sell I would disagree, the point being cars get priced accordingly. There are cars at the high price end and low price end. Which are the 996 turbos without history that have gone for sub 20k or which ever price point you refer to?

From my observations, the 996 Turbo 6MT examples that have done more than 75K miles have an 'asking price' around the £37K-£45K range from private and trade. It seems mileage & colour+bodywork sets the initial asking price.

In the mix of it, there are cars with and without evidence of any inevitable mechanical refresh which is sadly not factored in unless the private buyer flags up this during negotiation ... it gets uncomfortable but you have to dig a bit deeper on the upkeep and provenance.

[plynchy]

TwinExit said:

I am illustrating the likely real-world cost and responsibility of ownership of a car such as a 996 Turbo over a respectable period of time i.e 3-5 years.

If you think oil changes and new rear tyres from blackcircles.com is the typical extent of it, you are greatly mistaken.

If you think wrenching on your 996T on axle stands every month outside your front door and ph1ssing-off the neighbours will still retain re-sale value, you are greatly mistaken.

If you ever intend on owning such a car for a long enough period, it will incur significant running spend, or you take the hit at re-sale (depreciation). Either way, it is not £1K-£2K a year like some on here claim.

Some very strange views being published here, and very wrong in my experience. My neighbours really couldn't care less what I do on my drive or in my garage.

And yes, I ran a 996t for 6.5 years, and on average I estimate it swallowed around 1-2k pa during my ownership. Also sold for 'the going rate' to a very clued up buyer in 2021.

Edited by plynchy on Tuesday 13th December 14:16

[fourwheeler]

Guys, i'm really enjoying this thread and there has been some healthy debate.

I can't help feel that the thread has been a little bit derailed by the firm and unrelenting arguments put forward by "TwinExit" it feels like they will just continue arguing their points to no end..

This has not happened me before, but can I please ask people not to be baited by their arguments.

[plynchy]

fourwheeler said:

Guys, i'm really enjoying this thread and there has been some healthy debate.

I can't help feel that the thread has been a little bit derailed by the firm and unrelenting arguments put forward by "TwinExit" it feels like they will just continue arguing their points to no end..

This has not happened me before, but can I please ask people not to be baited by their arguments.

Good luck with your search and hope you end up with a good car, they really are special.

[ATM]

fourwheeler said:

Guys, i'm really enjoying this thread and there has been some healthy debate.

I can't help feel that the thread has been a little bit derailed by the firm and unrelenting arguments put forward by "TwinExit" it feels like they will just continue arguing their points to no end..

This has not happened me before, but can I please ask people not to be baited by their arguments.

Don't worry this sort of think happens all the time. PH is all about people's views. And sometimes some people have strong views. It would be unfair for someone to decide which are valid and which are not. So just ieave people to it. If someone has very different views to everyone else this will become obvious and shouldn't damage the readability of the thread. Most people are intelligent enough to gloss over the posts which they feel are not so relevant to them.

[fourwheeler]

Sure that's a fair point I guess.

But it's annoying when it turns into flogging a dead horse and never ending.

Buti I suppose ultimately you are correct.. better let these things run their course. Debate is healthy.

[Andyoz]

OP should at least talk to an Indie that works on these cars. They know about parts prices etc. for the big ticket items. Those items may not be needed but go in at least aware.

Prices have increased and sometimes they are not available. This has gotten worse the last few years.

[marky911]

TwinExit said:

DIY and Porsche 911 Turbo do not belong in the same sentence ... it screams cost-cutting and Dunning-Kruger. No one informed will want anything to do with that when most other examples on the market are taken care of by Porsche or in the trade specialists.

I had my suspicions, but you’ve now confirmed them. You don’t really know what you’re on about when it comes to shopping for 20 year old 911s.
Enjoy whatever it is you buy and own though.

And just to confirm and dispute your selective quoting. Nobody said don’t use an Indy. A combination of specialist servicing/big jobs and DIY pampering is just as desirable though, if not more so.

Edited by marky911 on Tuesday 13th December 17:59

[jetbox]

plynchy said:

Good luck with your search and hope you end up with a good car, they really are special.

And still going well plynchy 😀

[plynchy]

jetbox said:

And still going well plynchy ??

Very nice to see Russell!

[julian987R]

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale...

[TwinExit]

marky911 said:

I had my suspicions, but you’ve now confirmed them. You don’t really know what you’re on about when it comes to shopping for 20 year old 911s.
Enjoy whatever it is you buy and own though.

And just to confirm and dispute your selective quoting. Nobody said don’t use an Indy. A combination of specialist servicing/big jobs and DIY pampering is just as desirable though, if not more so.

Edited by marky911 on Tuesday 13th December 17:59

The idea of DIY being bandied about on this thread is an attempt to mask the typical costs for proper upkeep.

It is NOT a desirable aspect when someone is looking to buy these sort of cars.

[Desert Dragon]

julian987R said:

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale...

10/10