Where are all the 997.1 GT3s
Discussion
Galahad said:
Are the posters who think these recent cars are overpriced owners, talking down their own book, ex owners who wish they'd never sold, or potential owners wishing they'd jumped in sooner?
The fact that a lot of them are quickly finding new homes suggests that they're correctly priced. I've always felt the 997.1 GT3 was underpriced compared with other GT3s, and given recent increases in 996 GT3 values, I think it's inevitable that 997s are now following suit.
The same has happened with M3s. A good E46 can easily cost more than an E92, despite the later car being 'better' in almost all ways.
Long may it continue!
I think its all subjective to other models. In June i paid just under 110 for a 991.1 GT3 clubsport with 10.5k miles from Porsche Chester. Its got all the 'important' options apart from PCCB and came with 2 year warranty, i had them refurb the wheels in silver (didnt like the anthracite) and they PPF'd the whole front end and arches for me. They even taxed the car and threw in a silverstone experience day as there was a delay in collection due to the wheels being refurbed. These prices make a good 991.1 look value for money! The fact that a lot of them are quickly finding new homes suggests that they're correctly priced. I've always felt the 997.1 GT3 was underpriced compared with other GT3s, and given recent increases in 996 GT3 values, I think it's inevitable that 997s are now following suit.
The same has happened with M3s. A good E46 can easily cost more than an E92, despite the later car being 'better' in almost all ways.
Long may it continue!
Edited by That_White_GT3 on Wednesday 16th February 10:53
Edited by That_White_GT3 on Wednesday 16th February 10:54
Edited by That_White_GT3 on Wednesday 16th February 10:55
Digga said:
That's precisely the point Galahad is making; that an E46 can easily cost more than an E92.
It may well come to it that this is also the case for 997.1 vs. 991.1. Who knows?
It will be interesting to see thats for sure. Maybe ive got rose tinted glasses on but once the 991.1 comes out of 10 year engine warranty and people see its not the end of the world will they become more collectable in time? Think of the 996 GT3 for example people hated them at first (headlights) now they are 'rare', the 991.1 build numbers are a fair bit lower than the .2 and also the 4.0 is in a number of GT products now making the 3.8 in mine less common... Who knows though! It may well come to it that this is also the case for 997.1 vs. 991.1. Who knows?
That_White_GT3 said:
It will be interesting to see thats for sure. Maybe ive got rose tinted glasses on but once the 991.1 comes out of 10 year engine warranty and people see its not the end of the world will they become more collectable in time? Think of the 996 GT3 for example people hated them at first (headlights) now they are 'rare', the 991.1 build numbers are a fair bit lower than the .2 and also the 4.0 is in a number of GT products now making the 3.8 in mine less common... Who knows though!
I have seen 'good' 996.2s for more money than 997.1s, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if 997s 'overtake' 991s, especially the Gen 1 PDK only cars (which I think are utterly fantastic by the way and I'd love to own one) as there will always be a group of buyers who'd only consider a manual GT3. Galahad said:
I have seen 'good' 996.2s for more money than 997.1s, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if 997s 'overtake' 991s, especially the Gen 1 PDK only cars (which I think are utterly fantastic by the way and I'd love to own one) as there will always be a group of buyers who'd only consider a manual GT3.
I can see the 997 surpassing the 991.1 for sure, its happened in most cases. I will be interested to see when the .1 & .2 gap starts to close. I appreciate the .2 is a more all round car than my .1 but i couldn't justify 40k gap to get the equivalent model/spec over mine. I would have loved a manual GT3 touring but again it was out of budget, i appreciate the connected feeling with a manual but alot of people have told me in some instances the .2 GT3 is 'too' fast to be manual for the average driver. Its a feeling i certainly get when pushing on in my .1 - i cant get anywhere near the limit with PDK but im sure i would be further away if it was a manual. I very nearly bought a 997.1 GT3 with 42k mile on it 3 years ago. Silver, PCCB, chrono and CGT seats. It was up with RPM for 64k at the time and before i got home from overseas it had sold. Seems a bargain now looking back!
Edited by That_White_GT3 on Wednesday 16th February 15:37
glassy.ben said:
what would you guys get right now??? 996.2 GT3 or 997 GT3
They are actually quite different.Like the comparison between 991.1 and 997, the 996 has fewer driver aids. So you’re looking at something that’s a bit less accessible but ultimately, possibly more rewarding to drive.
If you were just buying for road use, probably the 997, but for track they both have qualities.
Most important on either is condition.
Hi
Thanks for message
I have my heart set on.a 996 GT3 as my grandad had one before moving to Spain. Unfortunately being 17 at the time I had no chance of getting my hands on it.
But reading this thread has made me think a bit more as not that much difference in price.
Alongside my 991.2 gts I think the 996 May give me more of a variation though. Seen a 996 advertised near Aberdeen Club Sport too the only club sport advertised at the minute
Looks pretty good
Thanks for message
I have my heart set on.a 996 GT3 as my grandad had one before moving to Spain. Unfortunately being 17 at the time I had no chance of getting my hands on it.
But reading this thread has made me think a bit more as not that much difference in price.
Alongside my 991.2 gts I think the 996 May give me more of a variation though. Seen a 996 advertised near Aberdeen Club Sport too the only club sport advertised at the minute
Looks pretty good
Huge softspot for the 996.2 but personally I see very little positives of the 996 over the 997. They are very similar cars once you pull away the trick suspension, oval headlights and prettier interior.
As for above the 997 / 991 don’t really compare in terms of target audience. The lack of manual (in a car designed to be engaging) and the fears of engine reliability won’t play to its advantage. Lets put it this way I wouldn’t straight swap for one. In fact i’d take a 997.2 Turbo over one if quicker gear changes and outright pace were my bag
That said I’d take a manual 991.2 or 992 touring any which day of the week over my 997. I’d also pay handsomely to move to a 997.2 comfort or not purely for the aesthetics
As for above the 997 / 991 don’t really compare in terms of target audience. The lack of manual (in a car designed to be engaging) and the fears of engine reliability won’t play to its advantage. Lets put it this way I wouldn’t straight swap for one. In fact i’d take a 997.2 Turbo over one if quicker gear changes and outright pace were my bag
That said I’d take a manual 991.2 or 992 touring any which day of the week over my 997. I’d also pay handsomely to move to a 997.2 comfort or not purely for the aesthetics
Edited by shantybeater on Wednesday 16th February 19:31
shantybeater said:
Huge softspot for the 996.2 but personally I see very little positives of the 996 over the 997. They are very similar cars once you pull away the trick suspension, oval headlights and prettier interior.
As for above the 997 / 991 don’t really compare in terms of target audience. The lack of manual (in a car designed to be engaging) and the fears of engine reliability won’t play to its advantage. Lets put it this way I wouldn’t straight swap for one. In fact i’d take a 997.2 Turbo over one if quicker gear changes and outright pace were my bag
That said I’d take a manual 991.2 or 992 touring any which day of the week over my 997. I’d also pay handsomely to move to a 997.2 comfort or not purely for the aesthetics
I wouldnt say any GT product has a lack of 'engagement' - reality is for a large percentage of the owners we wont get anywhere near the limit or even close. I find my car engaging, little to know sound deadening with an engine reving to 9k behind my head. Handling up there with the best, you might say options like rear wheel steer and PDK take away from the experience but as above we are not all Lewis Hamilton, therefore the aides help us get closer to the limit and therefore that makes it feel more engaging from my perspective. Horses for courses i guess - however you cant compare a 997.2 Turbo to any GT product if your talking about engagement. As for above the 997 / 991 don’t really compare in terms of target audience. The lack of manual (in a car designed to be engaging) and the fears of engine reliability won’t play to its advantage. Lets put it this way I wouldn’t straight swap for one. In fact i’d take a 997.2 Turbo over one if quicker gear changes and outright pace were my bag
That said I’d take a manual 991.2 or 992 touring any which day of the week over my 997. I’d also pay handsomely to move to a 997.2 comfort or not purely for the aesthetics
Edited by shantybeater on Wednesday 16th February 19:31
That_White_GT3 said:
I wouldnt say any GT product has a lack of 'engagement' - reality is for a large percentage of the owners we wont get anywhere near the limit or even close. I find my car engaging, little to know sound deadening with an engine reving to 9k behind my head. Handling up there with the best, you might say options like rear wheel steer and PDK take away from the experience but as above we are not all Lewis Hamilton, therefore the aides help us get closer to the limit and therefore that makes it feel more engaging from my perspective. Horses for courses i guess - however you cant compare a 997.2 Turbo to any GT product if your talking about engagement.
We are all different, I wasn’t meaning to slate the 991. Personally I wouldn’t have any sort of automatic in a car I drove for enjoyment, and it’s not because I’m Lewis Hamilton by any stretch, but it does add a huge dimension of engagement or enjoyment to the experience . I fully appreciate a 997.2T would feel even more refined, but FOR ME that’s where an auto box makes sense unless you are driving at competitive events (which I wouldn’t be).When I wake up early on a Sunday morning for a drive I want to feel as connected as possible, the same applies to my occasional untimed track day. I don’t care if I’m slower at changing gear or slower on a lap, I want to enjoy the experience, and two peddles saps a lot of that away which imo pushes cars to have higher horsepower/limits to be as exciting to drive.
For that reason there is an audience who will not be interested in PDK GT3’s, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they drop to below 997’s. That said I’m sure the younger generation will never even learn to drive a manual, so perhaps the manual cars will end up being worthless to all but old folk and luddites. It’s a fair old way away though
Edited by shantybeater on Thursday 17th February 10:30
shantybeater said:
We are all different, I wasn’t meaning to slate the 991. Personally I wouldn’t have any sort of automatic in a car I drove for enjoyment, and it’s not because I’m Lewis Hamilton by any stretch, but it does add a huge dimension of engagement or enjoyment to the experience . I fully appreciate a 997.2T would feel even more refined, but FOR ME that’s where an auto box makes sense unless you are driving at competitive events (which I wouldn’t be).
When I wake up early on a Sunday morning for a drive I want to feel as connected as possible, the same applies to my occasional untimed track day. I don’t care if I’m slower at changing gear or slower on a lap, I want to enjoy the experience, and two peddles saps a lot of that away which imo pushes cars to have higher horsepower/limits to be as exciting to drive.
For that reason there is an audience who will not be interested in PDK GT3’s, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they drop to below 997’s. That said I’m sure the younger generation will never even learn to drive a manual, so perhaps the manual cars will end up being worthless to all but old folk and luddites. It’s a fair old way away though
I think we will see the 997 go above in price for sure, seems to have happened with most models over the years with good cars. Before my GT3 i had always been manual (Clio Sport, Golf R32, B7 RS4) so i fully understand the manual enjoyment, but theres something about the PDK i like. I think the cars too quick to enjoy it fully in manual, the 997 and 996 are slower and probably in the sweet spot for a manual much like the GT4. Horses for courses i guess. When I wake up early on a Sunday morning for a drive I want to feel as connected as possible, the same applies to my occasional untimed track day. I don’t care if I’m slower at changing gear or slower on a lap, I want to enjoy the experience, and two peddles saps a lot of that away which imo pushes cars to have higher horsepower/limits to be as exciting to drive.
For that reason there is an audience who will not be interested in PDK GT3’s, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they drop to below 997’s. That said I’m sure the younger generation will never even learn to drive a manual, so perhaps the manual cars will end up being worthless to all but old folk and luddites. It’s a fair old way away though
Edited by shantybeater on Thursday 17th February 10:30
Had a few performance cars with flappy paddles (I'm hard of learning), and without exception, while driving them I couldn't stop fantasising about how fan-bloody-tastic they would have been with a manual 'box.
Love the auto 'box on our Range Rover though. Never use the paddles, and can imagine it being utterly pants with a manual 'box.
I don't go out in the RR to satiate my desire to drive though. If I'm going out to drive, then I want to enjoy, and attempt to perfect the whole process of driving, and a huge part of that involves stirring the cogs. I don't buy the argument of a car being too fast for a manual gearbox at all. It may add to the challenge, sure, but by extension it also adds to the enjoyment of occasionally getting things spot-on. The bigger the challenge, the bigger the reward. If everything is handed to me on a plate I get bored very very quickly.
Unless we're talking bacon butties.
Or Eccles cakes.
My £0.02, in completely the wrong the place.
Love the auto 'box on our Range Rover though. Never use the paddles, and can imagine it being utterly pants with a manual 'box.
I don't go out in the RR to satiate my desire to drive though. If I'm going out to drive, then I want to enjoy, and attempt to perfect the whole process of driving, and a huge part of that involves stirring the cogs. I don't buy the argument of a car being too fast for a manual gearbox at all. It may add to the challenge, sure, but by extension it also adds to the enjoyment of occasionally getting things spot-on. The bigger the challenge, the bigger the reward. If everything is handed to me on a plate I get bored very very quickly.
Unless we're talking bacon butties.
Or Eccles cakes.
My £0.02, in completely the wrong the place.
Stunning 991 GT3 for £98k.... https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/12961884
997 GT3 with similar miles is probably similar money/, with maybe a .1 being a little lower and a .2 a little higher?
997 GT3 with similar miles is probably similar money/, with maybe a .1 being a little lower and a .2 a little higher?
The low mileage red 997.1 up for £109k has disappeared off Autotrader as well.
There's now a black low miler with Auto100 at the same price.
The private sale Meteor grey one at £90k looks best one and perhaps best value, yes i am not considering the left hand drive track car.
Although most on here say these are over priced they do seem to move on so I guess ....
There's now a black low miler with Auto100 at the same price.
The private sale Meteor grey one at £90k looks best one and perhaps best value, yes i am not considering the left hand drive track car.
Although most on here say these are over priced they do seem to move on so I guess ....
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