GT3 991.2 Press Reviews and Awards
Discussion
AndrewD said:
Cheib said:
AndrewD said:
Has there been a decent driver review of the manual 991.2 GT3 yet, eg Harris?
Sadly not!Chris H / Jethro - if you're reading, happy to do a test in my car when it is run in, compare perhaps to 997 4.0 RS (already run in!).
Wait till spring when tarmac is warmer and there needs to be some track driving too.
No point doing a half attempt in these conditions with probably unexplored questions left on the table.
...after all we know it is not a bad car. The small differences will be in the margins at the limits.
On the road both are great - just pick your preferred gearbox. Can't see understeer, acceleration, turnin, pace, etc being issues on 30-70mph B-roads/A-roads/M-roads.
No point doing a half attempt in these conditions with probably unexplored questions left on the table.
...after all we know it is not a bad car. The small differences will be in the margins at the limits.
On the road both are great - just pick your preferred gearbox. Can't see understeer, acceleration, turnin, pace, etc being issues on 30-70mph B-roads/A-roads/M-roads.
Edited by LaSource on Monday 18th December 12:48
how may manual winged GT3 were ordered, 70 cars ?
people say there are loads more made than ever, but 60% will be PDK and 50 odd cars that marketing T thing.
The Gt3 Manual could be one of the rarest yet in the UK and if you want 4.0, NA engine with manual you only have the RS 4.0 at £500k and the R at £350k to choose from.
Also if some one sells a 991.2 GT3 manual CS car for £165k what does the seller buy ? It has no competition even at £200k
people may not want to pay overs but if you look what's available, there is not much choice about in that area.
Also prob the last manual NA GT3 made.
people say there are loads more made than ever, but 60% will be PDK and 50 odd cars that marketing T thing.
The Gt3 Manual could be one of the rarest yet in the UK and if you want 4.0, NA engine with manual you only have the RS 4.0 at £500k and the R at £350k to choose from.
Also if some one sells a 991.2 GT3 manual CS car for £165k what does the seller buy ? It has no competition even at £200k
people may not want to pay overs but if you look what's available, there is not much choice about in that area.
Also prob the last manual NA GT3 made.
Porsche911R said:
how may manual winged GT3 were ordered, 70 cars ?
people say there are loads more made than ever, but 60% will be PDK and 50 odd cars that marketing T thing.
The Gt3 Manual could be one of the rarest yet in the UK and if you want 4.0, NA engine with manual you only have the RS 4.0 at £500k and the R at £350k to choose from.
Also if some one sells a 991.2 GT3 manual CS car for £165k what does the seller buy ? It has no competition even at £200k
people may not want to pay overs but if you look what's available, there is not much choice about in that area.
Also prob the last manual NA GT3 made.
True...though do not forget 997.2 GT3 (much cheaper) and 997.2 (3.8) RS. Think they are contenders too. The former being an easier consideration as it is much cheaper.people say there are loads more made than ever, but 60% will be PDK and 50 odd cars that marketing T thing.
The Gt3 Manual could be one of the rarest yet in the UK and if you want 4.0, NA engine with manual you only have the RS 4.0 at £500k and the R at £350k to choose from.
Also if some one sells a 991.2 GT3 manual CS car for £165k what does the seller buy ? It has no competition even at £200k
people may not want to pay overs but if you look what's available, there is not much choice about in that area.
Also prob the last manual NA GT3 made.
LaSource said:
True...though do not forget 997.2 GT3 (much cheaper) and 997.2 (3.8) RS. Think they are contenders too. The former being an easier consideration as it is much cheaper.
I have looked at the 997.2 many times, most are comfort spec, and all are 2009/2010 cars and the clutch's are very heavy.I think the GT4 with some choice mods is a better buy although I do like the GT3, just not happy with the long ratios in the non RS model, and the PASM in the older cars is dire imo, so a 997.2 GT3 would mean, buying buckets, LW flywheel, a set of shocks, plus the short final drive and you may as well do the engine mounts and diff while you have it apart !
It's then not cheaper !
Performance wise the new cars are night and day ahead now.
The older car might reward more but it would need all those parts changing if I owned one for sure.
A good RS is £180k + so again it's a bit more money and still has that dated PASM system, most I have seen have over worn PCCB's also.
So that's either a £10k ST cost or a AP £4k cost ! for the worn brakes most seem to be left with, or would have if used any more !
when you look at all that you may as well have the latest new car, it has a lighter clutch, rides like Carpet on those helper springs, has short ratio's and 500BHp with a load of extra Torque lower down.
could be the best yet ? I think if you lined them up most people would take the new car, Porsche have fixed most of the road going issues in it.
Also it depends on use the GT4 has any past GT3 licked for road use Imo, add the 435BHP and LW flywheel to a GT4 and you are left with a stunning car cheaper than all the GT3 options when modded.
Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 18th December 14:15
LaSource said:
Porsche911R said:
how may manual winged GT3 were ordered, 70 cars ?
people say there are loads more made than ever, but 60% will be PDK and 50 odd cars that marketing T thing.
The Gt3 Manual could be one of the rarest yet in the UK and if you want 4.0, NA engine with manual you only have the RS 4.0 at £500k and the R at £350k to choose from.
Also if some one sells a 991.2 GT3 manual CS car for £165k what does the seller buy ? It has no competition even at £200k
people may not want to pay overs but if you look what's available, there is not much choice about in that area.
Also prob the last manual NA GT3 made.
True...though do not forget 997.2 GT3 (much cheaper) and 997.2 (3.8) RS. Think they are contenders too. The former being as easier consideration as it is much cheaper.people say there are loads more made than ever, but 60% will be PDK and 50 odd cars that marketing T thing.
The Gt3 Manual could be one of the rarest yet in the UK and if you want 4.0, NA engine with manual you only have the RS 4.0 at £500k and the R at £350k to choose from.
Also if some one sells a 991.2 GT3 manual CS car for £165k what does the seller buy ? It has no competition even at £200k
people may not want to pay overs but if you look what's available, there is not much choice about in that area.
Also prob the last manual NA GT3 made.
Cant remember the last time one was for sale sub 20k miles, great cars, no doubt, but put another 20k in and have a flipped new one!
Ive been doing this man maths for the last 18 months !
Porsche911R said:
I have looked at the 997.2 many times, most are comfort spec, and all are 2009/2010 cars and the clutch's are very heavy.
I think the GT4 with some choice mods is a better buy although I do like the GT3, just not happy with the long ratios in the non RS model, and the PASM in the older cars is dire imo, so a 997.2 GT3 would mean, buying buckets, LW flywheel, a set of shocks, plus the short final drive and you may as well do the engine mounts and diff while you have it apart !
It's then not cheaper !
Performance wise the new cars are night and day ahead now.
The older car might reward more but it would need all those parts changing if I owned one for sure.
A good RS is £180k + so again it's a bit more money and still has that dated PASM system, most I have seen have over worn PCCB's also.
So that's either a £10k ST cost or a AP £4k cost ! for the worn brakes most seem to be left with, or would have if used any more !
when you look at all that you may as well have the latest new car, it has a lighter clutch, rides like Carpet on those helper springs, has short ratio's and 500BHp with a load of extra Torque lower down.
could be the best yet ? I think if you lined them up most people would take the new car, Porsche have fixed most of the road going issues in it.
Also it depends on use the GT4 has any past GT3 licked for road use Imo, add the 435BHP and LW flywheel to a GT4 and you are left with a stunning car cheaper than all the GT3 options when modded.
Some truth there but think you are taking worse case scenarios.I think the GT4 with some choice mods is a better buy although I do like the GT3, just not happy with the long ratios in the non RS model, and the PASM in the older cars is dire imo, so a 997.2 GT3 would mean, buying buckets, LW flywheel, a set of shocks, plus the short final drive and you may as well do the engine mounts and diff while you have it apart !
It's then not cheaper !
Performance wise the new cars are night and day ahead now.
The older car might reward more but it would need all those parts changing if I owned one for sure.
A good RS is £180k + so again it's a bit more money and still has that dated PASM system, most I have seen have over worn PCCB's also.
So that's either a £10k ST cost or a AP £4k cost ! for the worn brakes most seem to be left with, or would have if used any more !
when you look at all that you may as well have the latest new car, it has a lighter clutch, rides like Carpet on those helper springs, has short ratio's and 500BHp with a load of extra Torque lower down.
could be the best yet ? I think if you lined them up most people would take the new car, Porsche have fixed most of the road going issues in it.
Also it depends on use the GT4 has any past GT3 licked for road use Imo, add the 435BHP and LW flywheel to a GT4 and you are left with a stunning car cheaper than all the GT3 options when modded.
Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 18th December 14:15
Agree one should start with a CS 997.2 which is dearer but still much cheaper than an overs 991.2 GT3. Gearing is fine for circuit use (yes, could be shortened for more acceleration if one is obsessive), pure road car I'm ok with it but I can see the criticism if one is used to turbos.
The 3.8RS yes is a better steer, more collectible, tighter performance, and more money - potentially more expensive than an overs 991.2 GT3.
The PASM issue can be mitigated a fair bit by replacing the electronic factory suspension control unit with an aftermarket DSC unit - 5 minute job to swap out and it changes the standard dampers from sluggish semi-active to fully independent active. The maps in the control unit allow much better loading up of the front axle then the std unit does.
Edited by LaSource on Monday 18th December 14:17
Yes, throwing money at a GT4 to do the same dampers, final drive, power hike, would also give an intriguing track car though you may not get that expense back.
Edited by LaSource on Monday 18th December 14:19
Double gauche said:
Again, show me a 7.2 GT3 CS for less than list price on a 991.2gt3 - for an 8 year old car..
Cant remember the last time one was for sale sub 20k miles, great cars, no doubt, but put another 20k in and have a flipped new one!
Ive been doing this man maths for the last 18 months !
Well, nothing compares to buying a 991.2 GT3 at list price. There is no other play but spec your own car that is actually a very good car and pocket zero depreciation or £whatever.Cant remember the last time one was for sale sub 20k miles, great cars, no doubt, but put another 20k in and have a flipped new one!
Ive been doing this man maths for the last 18 months !
I was responding for people who have not been able to get the list price car. Agree though if the price delta is £20k between 997.2 GT3 CS and 991.2 GT3 CS (in manual!) then of course pay the overs if you can afford it.
Edited by LaSource on Monday 18th December 14:19
LaSource said:
Some truth there but think you are taking worse case scenarios.
Agree one should start with a CS 997.2 which is dearer but still much cheaper than an overs 991.2 GT3. Gearing is fine for circuit use (yes, could be shortened for more acceleration if one is obsessive), pure road car I'm ok with it but I can see the criticism if one is used to turbos.
The 3.8RS yes is a better steer, more collectible, tighter performance, and more money - potentially more expensive than an overs 991.2 GT3.
The PASM issue can be mitigated a fair bit by replacing the electronic factory suspension control unit with an aftermarket DSC unit - 5 minute job to swap out and it changes the standard dampers from sluggish semi-active to fully independent active. The maps in the control unit allow much better loading up of the front axle then the std unit does.
I love a project but I also love changing cars, so as it stands NO past GT3 would work for me oem , so it would have to be a project car.Agree one should start with a CS 997.2 which is dearer but still much cheaper than an overs 991.2 GT3. Gearing is fine for circuit use (yes, could be shortened for more acceleration if one is obsessive), pure road car I'm ok with it but I can see the criticism if one is used to turbos.
The 3.8RS yes is a better steer, more collectible, tighter performance, and more money - potentially more expensive than an overs 991.2 GT3.
The PASM issue can be mitigated a fair bit by replacing the electronic factory suspension control unit with an aftermarket DSC unit - 5 minute job to swap out and it changes the standard dampers from sluggish semi-active to fully independent active. The maps in the control unit allow much better loading up of the front axle then the std unit does.
GT4 has massive tuning options and is new, it's a great base car which needs very little to make it great, it's very usable.
The new Manual GT3 has been a long time coming and prob has the best engine, 1st drivers GT3 in many years.
RS models look expensive still and miles kills values on these now, although a modded 997.2 RS would be my choice.
The 997 RS 4.0 is still the icon imo.
Double gauche said:
Again, show me a 7.2 GT3 CS for less than list price on a 991.2gt3 - for an 8 year old car..
Isn't the more accurate comparison a CS 7.2 against the overs price of the 991.2gt3 though? If you can get the new car at list, obviously you get it as for the moment there's zero risk to use or flip as you please. It only really becomes a question for those who don't happen to be important/well connected/etc enough to get an allocation.isaldiri said:
Double gauche said:
Again, show me a 7.2 GT3 CS for less than list price on a 991.2gt3 - for an 8 year old car..
Isn't the more accurate comparison a CS 7.2 against the overs price of the 991.2gt3 though? If you can get the new car at list, obviously you get it as for the moment there's zero risk to use or flip as you please. It only really becomes a question for those who don't happen to be important/well connected/etc enough to get an allocation.I guess it confirms what we all know which is that the new gt3 is underpriced.
From a US based journalist who drove the Touring last week in the South of France. Lifted from Rennlist.
The GT3 Touring is an emotional experience with few if any parallels. It's the first 991 to cause me to question whether the 997 RS 4.0 still sits on top for me in terms of emotion and involvement. Its engine is at least as good and exciting as the last Mezger, just an absolute masterpiece. The noises...ugh, the noises. This is a flat six that has you questioning what a 250 GTO engine or the best sounding straight six of V8 really has to offer in terms of noises—and its precision and power all over the place are simply nutty. The shifter and clutch are better than those in any 997. The steering is finally there—trading a bit of feel for enough advantage in response and precision to make me jump camps. The car's size is a bit big, but it largely goes away with the .2 generation due to some advances in the suspension. The brakes are perfection to the point of never coming up for discussion no matter how hard they got pounded on the Monte route, which never lets the rotors get up to speed to cool down. And, while I wanted the size and torque advantages of the T on the Monte route, I am glad the other (probably better) driver wouldn't give the T up—because when I got to the bottom of the mountain I was thoroughly spent and sated. I don't smoke, but I felt like I needed a cigarette—and the buzz lasted all the way into the airport in Nice twelve hours later. A 500-hp, RWD 911 on snow tires, on the Monte route, with snow along the sides, driven full tilt is an experience I'll never forget, and maybe, just maybe a better drive than my previous best—a run through lonely redwoods to Leggett in a Carrera GT. The 991.2 GT3 is that good, and the Touring package added something I didn't expect from the photos—as I thought I preferred the winged car to the Touring. Not after seeing and spending time around a black GT3 Touring on satin aluminum wheels. It was subtle and sinister, dripping of that "only if you know" thing that the first 500E/E500 did so well. This car likes to be dark, so I'd have mine in Black, Deep Sea Blue (Meerblau), or Brewster Green with satin aluminum wheels and PCCB—and keep it dirty. It looks gooooooooood that way. YMMV...
stout is offline
The GT3 Touring is an emotional experience with few if any parallels. It's the first 991 to cause me to question whether the 997 RS 4.0 still sits on top for me in terms of emotion and involvement. Its engine is at least as good and exciting as the last Mezger, just an absolute masterpiece. The noises...ugh, the noises. This is a flat six that has you questioning what a 250 GTO engine or the best sounding straight six of V8 really has to offer in terms of noises—and its precision and power all over the place are simply nutty. The shifter and clutch are better than those in any 997. The steering is finally there—trading a bit of feel for enough advantage in response and precision to make me jump camps. The car's size is a bit big, but it largely goes away with the .2 generation due to some advances in the suspension. The brakes are perfection to the point of never coming up for discussion no matter how hard they got pounded on the Monte route, which never lets the rotors get up to speed to cool down. And, while I wanted the size and torque advantages of the T on the Monte route, I am glad the other (probably better) driver wouldn't give the T up—because when I got to the bottom of the mountain I was thoroughly spent and sated. I don't smoke, but I felt like I needed a cigarette—and the buzz lasted all the way into the airport in Nice twelve hours later. A 500-hp, RWD 911 on snow tires, on the Monte route, with snow along the sides, driven full tilt is an experience I'll never forget, and maybe, just maybe a better drive than my previous best—a run through lonely redwoods to Leggett in a Carrera GT. The 991.2 GT3 is that good, and the Touring package added something I didn't expect from the photos—as I thought I preferred the winged car to the Touring. Not after seeing and spending time around a black GT3 Touring on satin aluminum wheels. It was subtle and sinister, dripping of that "only if you know" thing that the first 500E/E500 did so well. This car likes to be dark, so I'd have mine in Black, Deep Sea Blue (Meerblau), or Brewster Green with satin aluminum wheels and PCCB—and keep it dirty. It looks gooooooooood that way. YMMV...
stout is offline
Some nice images of the touring, and some words.
http://www.curves-magazin.com/en/blog/porsche-991-...
http://www.curves-magazin.com/en/blog/porsche-991-...
Relic said:
From a US based journalist who drove the Touring last week in the South of France. Lifted from Rennlist.
The GT3 Touring is an emotional experience with few if any parallels. It's the first 991 to cause me to question whether the 997 RS 4.0 still sits on top for me in terms of emotion and involvement. Its engine is at least as good and exciting as the last Mezger, just an absolute masterpiece. The noises...ugh, the noises. This is a flat six that has you questioning what a 250 GTO engine or the best sounding straight six of V8 really has to offer in terms of noises—and its precision and power all over the place are simply nutty. The shifter and clutch are better than those in any 997. The steering is finally there—trading a bit of feel for enough advantage in response and precision to make me jump camps. The car's size is a bit big, but it largely goes away with the .2 generation due to some advances in the suspension. The brakes are perfection to the point of never coming up for discussion no matter how hard they got pounded on the Monte route, which never lets the rotors get up to speed to cool down. And, while I wanted the size and torque advantages of the T on the Monte route, I am glad the other (probably better) driver wouldn't give the T up—because when I got to the bottom of the mountain I was thoroughly spent and sated. I don't smoke, but I felt like I needed a cigarette—and the buzz lasted all the way into the airport in Nice twelve hours later. A 500-hp, RWD 911 on snow tires, on the Monte route, with snow along the sides, driven full tilt is an experience I'll never forget, and maybe, just maybe a better drive than my previous best—a run through lonely redwoods to Leggett in a Carrera GT. The 991.2 GT3 is that good, and the Touring package added something I didn't expect from the photos—as I thought I preferred the winged car to the Touring. Not after seeing and spending time around a black GT3 Touring on satin aluminum wheels. It was subtle and sinister, dripping of that "only if you know" thing that the first 500E/E500 did so well. This car likes to be dark, so I'd have mine in Black, Deep Sea Blue (Meerblau), or Brewster Green with satin aluminum wheels and PCCB—and keep it dirty. It looks gooooooooood that way. YMMV...
stout is offline
Blimey I don't think we will see a better review than that! The GT3 Touring is an emotional experience with few if any parallels. It's the first 991 to cause me to question whether the 997 RS 4.0 still sits on top for me in terms of emotion and involvement. Its engine is at least as good and exciting as the last Mezger, just an absolute masterpiece. The noises...ugh, the noises. This is a flat six that has you questioning what a 250 GTO engine or the best sounding straight six of V8 really has to offer in terms of noises—and its precision and power all over the place are simply nutty. The shifter and clutch are better than those in any 997. The steering is finally there—trading a bit of feel for enough advantage in response and precision to make me jump camps. The car's size is a bit big, but it largely goes away with the .2 generation due to some advances in the suspension. The brakes are perfection to the point of never coming up for discussion no matter how hard they got pounded on the Monte route, which never lets the rotors get up to speed to cool down. And, while I wanted the size and torque advantages of the T on the Monte route, I am glad the other (probably better) driver wouldn't give the T up—because when I got to the bottom of the mountain I was thoroughly spent and sated. I don't smoke, but I felt like I needed a cigarette—and the buzz lasted all the way into the airport in Nice twelve hours later. A 500-hp, RWD 911 on snow tires, on the Monte route, with snow along the sides, driven full tilt is an experience I'll never forget, and maybe, just maybe a better drive than my previous best—a run through lonely redwoods to Leggett in a Carrera GT. The 991.2 GT3 is that good, and the Touring package added something I didn't expect from the photos—as I thought I preferred the winged car to the Touring. Not after seeing and spending time around a black GT3 Touring on satin aluminum wheels. It was subtle and sinister, dripping of that "only if you know" thing that the first 500E/E500 did so well. This car likes to be dark, so I'd have mine in Black, Deep Sea Blue (Meerblau), or Brewster Green with satin aluminum wheels and PCCB—and keep it dirty. It looks gooooooooood that way. YMMV...
stout is offline
Guido of The Getawayer is now on Auto Bild....released a short vid a couple of weeks ago on the manual car. There's now a version with English subtitles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88FZbZKvxWw
He mentions about the brake pedal being slightly high on the car for heel and toe (the car has PCCB's) but says that when the car warms up the offset decreases ? Been a few comments that the GT3's offset if better than the GT4....certainly the manual 991.2 GTS I drove which has PCCB's had quite a big offset.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88FZbZKvxWw
He mentions about the brake pedal being slightly high on the car for heel and toe (the car has PCCB's) but says that when the car warms up the offset decreases ? Been a few comments that the GT3's offset if better than the GT4....certainly the manual 991.2 GTS I drove which has PCCB's had quite a big offset.
Cheib said:
He mentions about the brake pedal being slightly high on the car for heel and toe (the car has PCCB's) but says that when the car warms up the offset decreases ? Been a few comments that the GT3's offset if better than the GT4....certainly the manual 991.2 GTS I drove which has PCCB's had quite a big offset.
You don't actually want the brake pedal higher for h&t surely as otherwise you end up having to brake too much generally to blip?isaldiri said:
You don't actually want the brake pedal higher for h&t surely as otherwise you end up having to brake too much generally to blip?
depends how hard you brake, if you are not braking you can just blip the throttle anyway.GT cars should be set up for harder braking. never had an Issue in the GT4 so some odd comments floating about.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yes I suppose there's an element of individual preference. I don't get along with the the 997s pedals personally and even installed a throttle plate to my rs which helps now but not great either and it's still not perfect. the gt4 was fine though. Oddly enough it's the 9X6 era cars I thought had the best pedal positioning, at least for me anyway.Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff