People seem to be taking a bit of a bath on GT3 cars

[cayman-black]

blackmamba said:

For some reason, Porsche prices it’s cars in the U.K. attractively compared to other markets so you end up paying more for a non U.K. LHD car than you would for a U.K. car at RRP (if you can get one). I think the supply vs demand balance is different so there isn’t the silly overs we have seen here.

This is right a GT3 RS in most European countries is over 200.000 euros basic car.

God and i remember when i used to buy Porsches in Belgium, how things have changed.

[LaSource]

I suspect one reason is that the UK is a centre of global reviews and driving programmes. Most articles written in English have a big footprint elsewhere around the world.

Under pricing UK cars, having a mad scramble is all good for global perspective.

Plus the RHD market is less porous. You couldn’t do that same in France, say. The Neighbouring countries would flock to French OPCs

[isaldiri]

blackmamba said:

For some reason, Porsche prices it’s cars in the U.K. attractively compared to other markets so you end up paying more for a non U.K. LHD car than you would for a U.K. car at RRP (if you can get one). I think the supply vs demand balance is different so there isn’t the silly overs we have seen here.

Isn't it more a case that Porsche simply don't seem to think it is worth adjusting for the vagaries of FX rates and seem to adjust the USD/EUR/GBP prices more or less in line with each other rather than PAG purposely underpricing UK cars? in 2005/06 cars were more expensive here than in Europe, after 2008 the reverse was true and then by 2015 it was back to prices being in line/very slightly cheaper in europe again and obviously after 2016 we're back in 08 ish territory. All throughout PAG have held prices more or less constant so when or perhaps I should say if eur/gbp ever recovers to prior levels (very doubtful admittedly...) people are going to be far more willing to try to order EU cars than currently. People don't just want list price but the lower of the list prices between EU/UK cars...

[GT4RS]

This threads definitely going to upset two regulars!

[MDL111]

I think you are correct - they just don’t adjust to FX movements. Definitely a case of at some point cars in Germany were cheaper than in the UK and now for a while the reverse.

I think once you look at a GT3RS at German prices - it is a 200k car - lots of competing offerings at those prices, therefore maybe less of a scramble to get one.
Cars were still oversubscribed for a while though - i wanted to order a normal GT3 and the dealer could not guarantee a slot, basically pay deposit and wait. So bought a Scuderia instead for less money - many happy miles later, I so far do not regret that decision.

[Juno]

TheDeadPrussian said:

This. I am a long-time Porsche customer and advocate of the brand, still holding on to the slim hope that I might get a second batch 991.2 GT3 RS...

There are so many of the first batch (and the 991.1 cars) for sale that it really disappoints me. Many with sub 1000 miles (or even 500 miles). I did seriously contemplate buying a first batch car at overs, but 80k above list (in some instances even more) is just taking the proverbial...

It has made me look elsewhere seriously however, the Porsche lustre is diminishing for me and the 200k sports car market is full of excellent cars - just not so many that deliver 'free motoring' or indeed a profit if you choose to sit on your appreciating asset...

I don't begrudge anyone their car, but please use them!

Yes well said,you are absolutely free to buy a Mclaren 720s or Lamborghini Performante with you're 200K, you will certainly NOT have to pay over list for these vehicles which is exactly what you want by the sound of it!!! So Job Done

However you WILL lose your underpants,shirt and circa £50-100K inside 6 months

Even Porsche GT cars at overs look like a good option in comparison which is probably why people take the decision to pay overs

Edited by Juno on Wednesday 19th December 22:40

[Yellow491]

GT4RS said:

This threads definitely going to upset two regulars!

I wonder who that might be

[terryb]

I don’t get why some people have real issues with paying overs for a GT car.

What else can you buy for the same money that does everything as good?

Any other car that you could buy that may compare in terms of Lambo, Mac, Audi, etc - will st money as soon as you’ve bought it. Look how many Mac owners, that bought cars at list have taken mega baths on their investment...

So to pay overs for a GT car and then to lose money on the “overs” part is no different to buying any one of the others I mentioned at list and losing a st load of money on it.

But, the GT car is probably a better all-round car than any of the others and therefore a better ownership proposition/ experience too.

[isaldiri]

terryb said:

I don’t get why some people have real issues with paying overs for a GT car.

Easy to say for those who do get cars at list don't you think? And I could be cynical and suggest it's very much in their interest to encourage others to do so as it directly benefits them.....

Sure the other cars might 'st money' as you say from new but buying a GT car over list then puts it in comparison to buying a Performante or 675LT under list. The financials are nowhere near as stacked in the Porsche's favour in this case.

[ninepoint2]

Reckon this Porsche might have been fixed by now and back on a used car lot near you as a one careful owner, nice example perhaps...

[GT4RS]

ninepoint2 said:

Reckon this Porsche might have been fixed by now and back on a used car lot near you as a one careful owner, nice example perhaps...

Oh god I would be gutted if I ended finding out I bought that.

Be worth while starting a 991.2 gt3 avoid thread with things like that about!

[GT4RS]

Yellow491 said:

GT4RS said:

This threads definitely going to upset two regulars!

I wonder who that might be

I’m sure we will all be corrected soon enough 🤣

[Cheib]

LaSource said:

I suspect one reason is that the UK is a centre of global reviews and driving programmes. Most articles written in English have a big footprint elsewhere around the world.

Under pricing UK cars, having a mad scramble is all good for global perspective.

Plus the RHD market is less porous. You couldn’t do that same in France, say. The Neighbouring countries would flock to French OP'Cs

A lot of UK cars have been finding there way to the RHD Asian markets because theyre cheaper here. Doubt it’s GT cars but everything else has. Porsche have recently cracked down on it and blacklisted a number of brokers etc that have been buy8ng the cars from OPC’s

On the OP’s subject I think the only people “taking a bath” are those that have bought at a premium hoping to sell it on. If you’ve paid a £30k premium to buy a car you couldn’t otherwise have accessed and you’ve bought it to drive it not sure that’s an issue.

I suspect a lot of the stupid overspaid for things like the first GT2 RS’s are paid by people who must ace the current “hot” car....and have so much money they don’t care!

[Deep]

terryb said:

I don’t get why some people have real issues with paying overs for a GT car.

What else can you buy for the same money that does everything as good?

Any other car that you could buy that may compare in terms of Lambo, Mac, Audi, etc - will st money as soon as you’ve bought it. Look how many Mac owners, that bought cars at list have taken mega baths on their investment...

So to pay overs for a GT car and then to lose money on the “overs” part is no different to buying any one of the others I mentioned at list and losing a st load of money on it.

But, the GT car is probably a better all-round car than any of the others and therefore a better ownership proposition/ experience too.

After moaning about overs I do get this point of view as well. With reasonable overs I still can't think of a car I'd rather have and a car that still offers every day practicality.

I don't think I'd like the attention I'd get in a Lambo and the Macca has reliability issues (going by what I've read)

I need to tick the GT3 box once in my life.

[Dr S]

ninepoint2 said:

Reckon this Porsche might have been fixed by now and back on a used car lot near you as a one careful owner, nice example perhaps...

I am waiting for one of the regulars here to claim that the only reason this car crashed is due to lack of rearwing and therefore not being a proper GT3

[CrashBang]

hunter 66 said:

993rsr . totally agree my old friend , nice to see normality returning ........yes I had my RS out in the rain this morning as it was bought to use .
The drivel from 911R is unrelenting and easier just to ignore , now there are two sides to GT ownership and sadly there are a few on here that just speak money , the investment aspect of the cars .
The constant bloody talk about good spec /poor spec and it will not sell if poor spec ........ thank god that will all now go away .
Who cares I could not afford to pay overs , despite constant chat of "put your money where your mouth is " , but was lucky to get a RS , and yes specced it poorly with Steel brakes , because I do not give a st about the next owner , I bought it for my fun .
Hopefully 2019 will be a fun year and real Porsche talk

This ^

Worth mentioning that Pistonheads is the only forum where any GT3 threads are dominated by values, residuals, spec, overs etc etc - Which could suggest that many whom post here are indeed speculators with ulterior motives.

[jimPH]

coyft said:

I don't think paying "overs" is the problem. It's how the new cars are allocated in the first place that causes the bad feeling toward Porsche.

There should be more transparency and perceived fairness in the process.

Should just be first come first served, those that have the cash or finance. Giving people preference because they've already bought one has led to them all becoming flippers.

[Taffy66]

coyft said:

I don't think paying "overs" is the problem. It's how the new cars are allocated in the first place that causes the bad feeling toward Porsche.

There should be more transparency and perceived fairness in the process.

Absolutely 100% this ^

[LaSource]

Taffy66 said:

coyft said:

I don't think paying "overs" is the problem. It's how the new cars are allocated in the first place that causes the bad feeling toward Porsche.

There should be more transparency and perceived fairness in the process.

Absolutely 100% this ^

Some also perceive that the new models predominantly seem to go to the same people with the previous cars being taken in for resale... Many 991.2RS customers are already in the system for a Weissach Pack car if/when released....the previous car will then be available for overs to the general market. The glut of 991.2GT3s at OPCs was because the same customers were getting the next new RS/GT2/etc...

This 'escalator' creates the different segments I mentioned earlier - 1. list price buyers on free motoring (some thrash them as intended, and some on a wealth escalator with little interest in driving) 2. overs buyers who may have resigned themselves into 'normal' depreciation 3. Forum moaners though many traditional drivers of the brand.

Personally I do not have a problem with buying on overs. I have done so before and will be happy to do so again. What I do object to however, is rapid market price setting whilst cars are being delivered based on early flippers on made up numbers where the OPCs also start to participate. Eg GT2RS this year have had a £300k+ spread on pricing (and still above list).

I think OPCs should be free to look after their best customers, if any cars are taken back in for the next best one then they should be offered to their next best who missed out at the original list price. Then Porsche would be rewarding loyalty and strengthening their belief in their list price framework....or raise the list price.

EDIT: to be frank it is a bit of a boring topic now. It is what is it. Maybe the change in economic climate is closing this recent phase. Lost interest in the brand to some extent anyway.

Edited by LaSource on Thursday 20th December 10:50

[isaldiri]

LaSource said:

Lost interest in the brand to some extent anyway.

Stockholm syndrome. You know you'll be back....