997.2 GTS v 997.2 C2S
Discussion
c4sman said:
I think every thread on a GTS becomes a why not get a GT3 for the same money thread. It’s invalid in my view for the following reasons. No.1 rear seats (that are fully legal/insurance friendly).
No2 is like for like cost. I don’t think comparing 2007 GT3 with 50k miles at 80-90k with a 2011 GTS manual coupe with 30k miles at £70k-80k is like for like as the GTS is materially newer and lower mileage and circa £10k cheaper. Compare them like for like and the gap is more like £40-60k for a 2011 car with similar mileage. They do not therefore compete in my mind particularly if you never plan to put either one on track.
Ok fair point on the seats (although they are next to useless for anyone over the age of 8), but in reality the difference between a 10 year old car vs 15 is bugger all nowadays. Is there a big price difference between a 2000 996 turbo vs a 2005? No. A big deal is made of the .2 iteration because the run of the mil .1’s had a notoriously flawed engine, not something of concern for any 997 GT3 owner.No2 is like for like cost. I don’t think comparing 2007 GT3 with 50k miles at 80-90k with a 2011 GTS manual coupe with 30k miles at £70k-80k is like for like as the GTS is materially newer and lower mileage and circa £10k cheaper. Compare them like for like and the gap is more like £40-60k for a 2011 car with similar mileage. They do not therefore compete in my mind particularly if you never plan to put either one on track.
It’s also a little bit like arguing a 2005 E46 330ci is somehow not comparable to a 2000 E46 M3. In my opinion the only reason we are in this predicament where the GTS is so much more valuable over a VERY similar C2S (and valued close to the flagship GT3) is rarity.
Edited by shantybeater on Saturday 7th May 22:49
g7jhp said:
What would your choice mods be on a 997.2 C2S?
A good set of coilovers (tractive?) a sportier exhaust, wheels and a few other bits and bobs to differentiate it from the average 911. I’d want to make it a more focused drive (with the odd track day) so I’d probably go about installing whatever GT3 components (cooling ducts etc) would fit whilst keeping the more docile appearance.Think this but .2
I think it would make a great weekend/occasional track car.
The nice thing about buying a closer to base model is it’s more of a blank canvas.
If I were to buy again now this is where I would be looking. That or a 987.2 Cayman S
Edited by shantybeater on Saturday 7th May 23:05
shantybeater said:
Ok fair point on the seats (although they are next to useless for anyone over the age of 8), but in reality the difference between a 10 year old car vs 15 is bugger all nowadays. Is there a big price difference between a 2000 996 turbo vs a 2005? No. A big deal is made of the .2 iteration because the run of the mil .1’s had a notoriously flawed engine, not something of concern for any 997 GT3 owner.
It’s also a little bit like arguing a 2005 E46 330ci is somehow not comparable to a 2000 E46 M3. In my opinion the only reason we are in this predicament where the GTS is so much more valuable over a VERY similar C2S (and valued close to the flagship GT3) is rarity.
On the first point we went out in the GTS yesterday with my average sized 12yo daughter in the back with a degree of comfort (but wouldn’t want to drive her to the south of France!) It’s also a little bit like arguing a 2005 E46 330ci is somehow not comparable to a 2000 E46 M3. In my opinion the only reason we are in this predicament where the GTS is so much more valuable over a VERY similar C2S (and valued close to the flagship GT3) is rarity.
Edited by shantybeater on Saturday 7th May 22:49
On the value point I’m going to break with all Pistonheads tradition and admit “I woz wrong”! I actually like your argument and you’ve changed my mind on that point. I’ve owned my GTS for so long and had this GTS vs GT3 discussion for so many years (at least 5 probably on pistonheads) that I hadn’t recognised that things have moved on. 3 or 5 years ago, the age was much more material (GT3 double the age of a GTS). Every year that goes by make that difference less relevant so they do become more and more like for like, so thanks for the updated viewpoint!
Sadly (perhaps) I’ve missed my GT3 window as I wouldn’t take it on track and with my ageing years couldn’t tolerate a car with a harder ride than my GTS on my local lumpy roads.
c4sman said:
On the first point we went out in the GTS yesterday with my average sized 12yo daughter in the back with a degree of comfort (but wouldn’t want to drive her to the south of France!)
On the value point I’m going to break with all Pistonheads tradition and admit “I woz wrong”! I actually like your argument and you’ve changed my mind on that point. I’ve owned my GTS for so long and had this GTS vs GT3 discussion for so many years (at least 5 probably on pistonheads) that I hadn’t recognised that things have moved on. 3 or 5 years ago, the age was much more material (GT3 double the age of a GTS). Every year that goes by make that difference less relevant so they do become more and more like for like, so thanks for the updated viewpoint!
Sadly (perhaps) I’ve missed my GT3 window as I wouldn’t take it on track and with my ageing years couldn’t tolerate a car with a harder ride than my GTS on my local lumpy roads.
Wow - very unlike PH! To be honest you have the right car if you never intend on tracking and want something a bit special. With .1 GT3's pushing ~100k their added value is only realised with some track time. On the value point I’m going to break with all Pistonheads tradition and admit “I woz wrong”! I actually like your argument and you’ve changed my mind on that point. I’ve owned my GTS for so long and had this GTS vs GT3 discussion for so many years (at least 5 probably on pistonheads) that I hadn’t recognised that things have moved on. 3 or 5 years ago, the age was much more material (GT3 double the age of a GTS). Every year that goes by make that difference less relevant so they do become more and more like for like, so thanks for the updated viewpoint!
Sadly (perhaps) I’ve missed my GT3 window as I wouldn’t take it on track and with my ageing years couldn’t tolerate a car with a harder ride than my GTS on my local lumpy roads.
The .2 C2S looks like a bit of a bargain compared to both as a more usable / customisable car with little guilt.
Edited by shantybeater on Sunday 8th May 10:26
shantybeater said:
Wow - very unlike PH! To be honest you have the right car if you never intend on tracking and want something a bit special. With .1 GT3's pushing ~100k their added value is only realised with some track time.
The .2 C2S looks like a bit of a bargain compared to both as a more usable / customisable car with little guilt.
Agreed on the .2 C2S. Great car for the money. The .2 C2S looks like a bit of a bargain compared to both as a more usable / customisable car with little guilt.
Edited by shantybeater on Sunday 8th May 10:26
GTS's are now mental money.
20k mile manual, £79k. Probably what, £25-30k more than the equivalent 997.2 Carrera S? Great cars but not £80k great.
https://911virgin.com/listings/997-gts-manual-tran...
20k mile manual, £79k. Probably what, £25-30k more than the equivalent 997.2 Carrera S? Great cars but not £80k great.
https://911virgin.com/listings/997-gts-manual-tran...
DjSki said:
GTS's are now mental money.
20k mile manual, £79k. Probably what, £25-30k more than the equivalent 997.2 Carrera S? Great cars but not £80k great.
https://911virgin.com/listings/997-gts-manual-tran...
Wow, nice spec tho. Only missing sports chrono which I like but many don’t. Means I’ve got a few years of depreciation proof driving ahead of me!20k mile manual, £79k. Probably what, £25-30k more than the equivalent 997.2 Carrera S? Great cars but not £80k great.
https://911virgin.com/listings/997-gts-manual-tran...
General disclaimer out of the way - I'm all for choice and if you are spending YOUR money then you should buy what you want, period. Besides, whatever the internet tells you, you will probably already know what you'll end up with and our opinions might not make much of a difference.
That said and in the interest of constructive discussion, I do not think a manual GTS is worth the £15-20k premium over PDK. If you REALLY want a manual then save yourself the cash and get a 997.2 C2S.
I also wonder how many people chase the "ideal spec" with the idea in mind that they will track the car, only to buy a unicorn that they then never drive with fear of depreciation and/or damage.
PS - I have the least PH GTS combination possible and wager that I have as much fun on track as the average fellow driver, sadly some people will just not give other alternatives a chance but that keeps some specs nice and affordable for the rest of us
That said and in the interest of constructive discussion, I do not think a manual GTS is worth the £15-20k premium over PDK. If you REALLY want a manual then save yourself the cash and get a 997.2 C2S.
I also wonder how many people chase the "ideal spec" with the idea in mind that they will track the car, only to buy a unicorn that they then never drive with fear of depreciation and/or damage.
PS - I have the least PH GTS combination possible and wager that I have as much fun on track as the average fellow driver, sadly some people will just not give other alternatives a chance but that keeps some specs nice and affordable for the rest of us
DjSki said:
GTS's are now mental money.
20k mile manual, £79k. Probably what, £25-30k more than the equivalent 997.2 Carrera S? Great cars but not £80k great.
https://911virgin.com/listings/997-gts-manual-tran...
Last of the best era of modern day 911's. 20k mile manual, £79k. Probably what, £25-30k more than the equivalent 997.2 Carrera S? Great cars but not £80k great.
https://911virgin.com/listings/997-gts-manual-tran...
DjSki said:
GTS's are now mental money.
20k mile manual, £79k. Probably what, £25-30k more than the equivalent 997.2 Carrera S? Great cars but not £80k great.
https://911virgin.com/listings/997-gts-manual-tran...
I know what you mean….however….20k mile manual, £79k. Probably what, £25-30k more than the equivalent 997.2 Carrera S? Great cars but not £80k great.
https://911virgin.com/listings/997-gts-manual-tran...
In the UK…low miles = + 15 to 20% hike in price over medium mileage cars..so although toppy…it’s probably not out of the ball park…
If I was sinking £80k into an immersive, tactile sports car…I’d be considering that…
DjSki said:
Obviously you pays your money etc...but £80k gets you into....Mclaren 12c, 997.2 Turbo S, F430, Cayman GT4, 996 GT3, 991.1 GTS, 991.2 Carrera T....etc etc.
Exactly…So many Porsche’s…so little time
*- A Mac at £80k is a brave choice IMO, grin inducing acceleration yes, wallet reducing most probably
MrVert said:
DjSki said:
Obviously you pays your money etc...but £80k gets you into....Mclaren 12c, 997.2 Turbo S, F430, Cayman GT4, 996 GT3, 991.1 GTS, 991.2 Carrera T....etc etc.
Exactly…So many Porsche’s…so little time
*A Mac12c requires a yearly service, or every 10,000 miles, whatever comes first. A google search suggests and average of £1500 per yearly service!
- A Mac at £80k is a brave choice IMO, grin inducing acceleration yes, wallet reducing most probably
I had a 997 GTS from new for 7 years. A really great car which I used as a daily, plus in North Wales and on the autobahn.
It was better in many regards vs my previous 997.1S, but not by the amounts currently reflected in their relative prices now - in my view, anyway.
Have had a Boxster 4.0 GTS since early March. It has the same power as the 997 GTS, and is pretty much the same weight and dimensions. If you don't need rear seats I'd definitely consider it or a similar Cayman. It's a sublime car. Really fun to drive, and really easy to have fun with.
Think they're going for about £75k-£80k second hand, and will have the best part of a two year warranty, plus it's obviously a much more modern car.
Enjoy choosing. As several have said, there are many options out there.
It was better in many regards vs my previous 997.1S, but not by the amounts currently reflected in their relative prices now - in my view, anyway.
Have had a Boxster 4.0 GTS since early March. It has the same power as the 997 GTS, and is pretty much the same weight and dimensions. If you don't need rear seats I'd definitely consider it or a similar Cayman. It's a sublime car. Really fun to drive, and really easy to have fun with.
Think they're going for about £75k-£80k second hand, and will have the best part of a two year warranty, plus it's obviously a much more modern car.
Enjoy choosing. As several have said, there are many options out there.
julian987R said:
A Mac12c requires a yearly service, or every 10,000 miles, whatever comes first. A google search suggests and average of £1500 per yearly service!
Well...exactly...thank you...so its twice as often and twice as expensive to service... 
It's not the service though, brakes, clutch even replacement batteries can throw up big costs. If you get unlucky timing-wise with a car not under warranty (some of these cars are what 11 years old now) it could be rather expensive compared to a Porsche. A friend of mine ran one for 12 months and did get unlucky, cost him £ 8.5k in that year....ouch! That wasn't even including a service as he traded it just before it was due.
We generally moan about the price of OPC servicing and prices, but compared to the costs for Mac / Ferrari / Aston etc etc they're lower and by quite a bit.
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