992 Turbo S issues-Right to reject
Discussion
It's become common parlance in Porsche and Ferrari circles for many years.
Many could not get the new cars they wished to order from their local official dealer, some "better" customers were being supplied with a stream of yummy cars on the basis that they would sell the old car back to the supplying dealer at their new cost, enabling the supplying dealer to then sell the almost new secondhand car at more than the list price. Called Overs.
Just look at the average mileage of the Porsche Approved GT cars currently for sale by their dealers. What proportion of these was originally sold to customers who intended to really own and use them ... and what proportion did just cycle them back ??
The OPC's really miked the good times, now they are unquestionable taking pain exacerbated by their past excesses ... Overs.
Many could not get the new cars they wished to order from their local official dealer, some "better" customers were being supplied with a stream of yummy cars on the basis that they would sell the old car back to the supplying dealer at their new cost, enabling the supplying dealer to then sell the almost new secondhand car at more than the list price. Called Overs.
Just look at the average mileage of the Porsche Approved GT cars currently for sale by their dealers. What proportion of these was originally sold to customers who intended to really own and use them ... and what proportion did just cycle them back ??
The OPC's really miked the good times, now they are unquestionable taking pain exacerbated by their past excesses ... Overs.
So, the car was collected this morning and now I wait and hope that the dealer doesn't mess me around with payment. The driver accepted the car is in pristine condition. They're telling me it will be a couple of days, as a couple of sign offs are required, so realistically with the bank holiday coming, I'll probably get it early next week.
Once I get the money, I'll respond again.
Once I get the money, I'll respond again.
funboxster said:
So, the car was collected this morning and now I wait and hope that the dealer doesn't mess me around with payment. The driver accepted the car is in pristine condition. They're telling me it will be a couple of days, as a couple of sign offs are required, so realistically with the bank holiday coming, I'll probably get it early next week.
Once I get the money, I'll respond again.
Glad it's worked out and best of luckOnce I get the money, I'll respond again.
funboxster said:
So, the car was collected this morning and now I wait and hope that the dealer doesn't mess me around with payment. The driver accepted the car is in pristine condition. They're telling me it will be a couple of days, as a couple of sign offs are required, so realistically with the bank holiday coming, I'll probably get it early next week.
Once I get the money, I'll respond again.
I’m also one of the people that’s pleased that so far it’s worked out. Once I get the money, I'll respond again.
I rejected a significantly less costly BMW a few years ago. So I can understand the challenges.
There's a few cases reported here re the same issue on new cars:
https://911uk.com/threads/992-chassis-system-fault...
Doesn't seem to be a cause or solution found though.
https://911uk.com/threads/992-chassis-system-fault...
Doesn't seem to be a cause or solution found though.
And so, a postscript to my OP in mid April, which generated a hell of a lot of responses.
I know that some didn't agree with my decision to reject the car, but I would counter by saying, if it was your new nigh on £200k car and these faults started occurring within the first month(s), with a month's wait before they could look at it, what decision would you make? Put up with it, keep your fingers crossed it doesn't come back or decide to reject?
The CRA 2015 is biased in the customer's favour for the first 6 months. The pendulum swings back in the seller's favour after that and the consumer has to prove the fault was there from the beginning (as I understand it)
The dealer did accept rejection, based on the fact the car became faulty in the first 30 days and that they'd had one chance to fix it.(Their words)
They agreed to refund me the purchase price of the car, less 45ppm for mileage covered, so £900 deducted. Again, you might not agree with this, but they can deduct an allowance for usage, which seems reasonable.
The CRA is poor in this respect, with little guidance, but surely the fairest way is based on mileage and the HMRC figure. Anyway, based on the CRA government guide for business that I read, they can't deduct depreciation.
I never had buyer's remorse, despite what some said. I planned to keep it for two years, but I lost complete confidence in the car and the brand.
Thanks to those who pm'd directly with their input. Much appreciated.
I know that some didn't agree with my decision to reject the car, but I would counter by saying, if it was your new nigh on £200k car and these faults started occurring within the first month(s), with a month's wait before they could look at it, what decision would you make? Put up with it, keep your fingers crossed it doesn't come back or decide to reject?
The CRA 2015 is biased in the customer's favour for the first 6 months. The pendulum swings back in the seller's favour after that and the consumer has to prove the fault was there from the beginning (as I understand it)
The dealer did accept rejection, based on the fact the car became faulty in the first 30 days and that they'd had one chance to fix it.(Their words)
They agreed to refund me the purchase price of the car, less 45ppm for mileage covered, so £900 deducted. Again, you might not agree with this, but they can deduct an allowance for usage, which seems reasonable.
The CRA is poor in this respect, with little guidance, but surely the fairest way is based on mileage and the HMRC figure. Anyway, based on the CRA government guide for business that I read, they can't deduct depreciation.
I never had buyer's remorse, despite what some said. I planned to keep it for two years, but I lost complete confidence in the car and the brand.
Thanks to those who pm'd directly with their input. Much appreciated.
The op and I corresponded. It was the same dealer. My experience was the same in that my expectation was the car would be booked in the next day given it was days old - but no it was a month.
Dealers seem very poor at triage.
I also have a Cayenne. It had a brake failure message. I don't recall the exact text.
It was under warrenty. Call the breakdown service. The aa come out. Can't fix that. Car towed. Loan car provided.
3 weeks pass and it is fixed. The fault ? A £30 sensor.
Had they put it on a diagnostic machine when it arrived they would have seen what if was, realised it was a simple fix. Replaced the part and off we go.
Instead I am in a merc e class for 3 weeks ( truly horrid thing ) and they are paying for it.
Seems an odd way to run a business to me
Glad it has been sorted and in my view rejection was the right thing to do. The quality of them is poor in my experience of 3 brand new cars.
Dealers seem very poor at triage.
I also have a Cayenne. It had a brake failure message. I don't recall the exact text.
It was under warrenty. Call the breakdown service. The aa come out. Can't fix that. Car towed. Loan car provided.
3 weeks pass and it is fixed. The fault ? A £30 sensor.
Had they put it on a diagnostic machine when it arrived they would have seen what if was, realised it was a simple fix. Replaced the part and off we go.
Instead I am in a merc e class for 3 weeks ( truly horrid thing ) and they are paying for it.
Seems an odd way to run a business to me
Glad it has been sorted and in my view rejection was the right thing to do. The quality of them is poor in my experience of 3 brand new cars.
Glad to see this end as it did. Feel free to pop a note over here https://911uk.com/forums/official-porsche-centre-o...
funboxster said:
And so, a postscript to my OP in mid April, which generated a hell of a lot of responses.
I know that some didn't agree with my decision to reject the car, but I would counter by saying, if it was your new nigh on £200k car and these faults started occurring within the first month(s), with a month's wait before they could look at it, what decision would you make? Put up with it, keep your fingers crossed it doesn't come back or decide to reject?
The CRA 2015 is biased in the customer's favour for the first 6 months. The pendulum swings back in the seller's favour after that and the consumer has to prove the fault was there from the beginning (as I understand it)
The dealer did accept rejection, based on the fact the car became faulty in the first 30 days and that they'd had one chance to fix it.(Their words)
They agreed to refund me the purchase price of the car, less 45ppm for mileage covered, so £900 deducted. Again, you might not agree with this, but they can deduct an allowance for usage, which seems reasonable.
The CRA is poor in this respect, with little guidance, but surely the fairest way is based on mileage and the HMRC figure. Anyway, based on the CRA government guide for business that I read, they can't deduct depreciation.
I never had buyer's remorse, despite what some said. I planned to keep it for two years, but I lost complete confidence in the car and the brand.
Thanks to those who pm'd directly with their input. Much appreciated.
Wow, that’s some fked up st, man. £900 for 6 months and 2500 miles usage of a £200k car, a car that will barely be worth £140k trade if that. East London Porsche have a MY22 with low mileage for £135k retail on their forecourt, so someone has lost a shed load of cash on this transaction. I know that some didn't agree with my decision to reject the car, but I would counter by saying, if it was your new nigh on £200k car and these faults started occurring within the first month(s), with a month's wait before they could look at it, what decision would you make? Put up with it, keep your fingers crossed it doesn't come back or decide to reject?
The CRA 2015 is biased in the customer's favour for the first 6 months. The pendulum swings back in the seller's favour after that and the consumer has to prove the fault was there from the beginning (as I understand it)
The dealer did accept rejection, based on the fact the car became faulty in the first 30 days and that they'd had one chance to fix it.(Their words)
They agreed to refund me the purchase price of the car, less 45ppm for mileage covered, so £900 deducted. Again, you might not agree with this, but they can deduct an allowance for usage, which seems reasonable.
The CRA is poor in this respect, with little guidance, but surely the fairest way is based on mileage and the HMRC figure. Anyway, based on the CRA government guide for business that I read, they can't deduct depreciation.
I never had buyer's remorse, despite what some said. I planned to keep it for two years, but I lost complete confidence in the car and the brand.
Thanks to those who pm'd directly with their input. Much appreciated.
The OP has got a result yes, but surely this cannot be a sustainable model for any company, not just a car company, going forward.
It’s been an eye opener for me all of this rejection malarkey, but I think it’s loaded against the dealers because cars do go wrong and for the unscrupulous, it only takes a sophisticated diagnostic tool to manufacture or mimic a fault and one could get to drive a car for peanuts and hand it back within 6 months.
Regardless of this and the other outcomes for the OP, I’m sure he’ll take on board all comments not just those that support his stance. Good luck with your next purchase and please start a new thread if you decide to reject that one too within 6 months
Really interesting thread and fair play to the op. Like many manufacturers Porsche has a number of well known problems which on the whole they deal with very well IMO however its also fair to say that some parts are simply poorly manufactured and not fit for purpose (PADM anyone!) and maybe if more took this route they would get ahead of the problem in the 1st place.
maz8062 said:
Wow, that’s some fked up st, man. £900 for 6 months and 2500 miles usage of a £200k car, a car that will barely be worth £140k trade if that. East London Porsche have a MY22 with low mileage for £135k retail on their forecourt, so someone has lost a shed load of cash on this transaction.
The OP has got a result yes, but surely this cannot be a sustainable model for any company, not just a car company, going forward.
It’s been an eye opener for me all of this rejection malarkey, but I think it’s loaded against the dealers because cars do go wrong and for the unscrupulous, it only takes a sophisticated diagnostic tool to manufacture or mimic a fault and one could get to drive a car for peanuts and hand it back within 6 months.
I'm sure Porsche won't lose any sleep over £60k. The OP has got a result yes, but surely this cannot be a sustainable model for any company, not just a car company, going forward.
It’s been an eye opener for me all of this rejection malarkey, but I think it’s loaded against the dealers because cars do go wrong and for the unscrupulous, it only takes a sophisticated diagnostic tool to manufacture or mimic a fault and one could get to drive a car for peanuts and hand it back within 6 months.
You're right that cars do go wrong. And so OP gave the dealer chance to rectify. if they cannot, you reject. This is why there are these policies/laws/rules in place.
Good result OP, I would have done the same.
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