Anyone for ‘T’
Discussion
The trouble is the RAS on Porsches only virtually shortens the wheelbase at up to 30mph. Over 50mph it creates a virtual longer wheelbase which only improves higher speed stability and should lessen agility by default. Between 30 and 50mph it shuffles between the two modes depending on steering input etc. The agility at higher speeds might be better due to the reduced slip angle of RAS cars ?
Another confusion is that Porsches fitted with RAS have a lower geared steering rack compared to others without it fitted. Its all rather confusing and sometimes at between 30-50mph on tight hairpin bends in the wet it gives a slightly artificial unpredictable feeling in my experience.
Another factor is the RAS makes cars even more sensitive to geo adjustments especially rear toe. My current 4RS despite being quite a bit shorter than the 992s has actually got a longer wheelbase yet feels much more nimble and chuckable than any 992 despite having no RAS.
On balance, I prefer the benefits of RAS especially on track until it gets wet.
Another confusion is that Porsches fitted with RAS have a lower geared steering rack compared to others without it fitted. Its all rather confusing and sometimes at between 30-50mph on tight hairpin bends in the wet it gives a slightly artificial unpredictable feeling in my experience.
Another factor is the RAS makes cars even more sensitive to geo adjustments especially rear toe. My current 4RS despite being quite a bit shorter than the 992s has actually got a longer wheelbase yet feels much more nimble and chuckable than any 992 despite having no RAS.
On balance, I prefer the benefits of RAS especially on track until it gets wet.
You may well be right, with the latest ‘digitalised’ 911s.
My first car was a rear-engined Hillman Imp, before progressing to 911s, and I fell in love with the handling balance - learning to anticipate and manage the weight transfer, and steering with the throttle.
Had a 2.7RSL for 16 years in tandem with a 3.2CS and both were a joyful expression of how lightness improves all the dynamic qualities - handling, steering, braking, acceleration ….. and at accessible speeds.
Ordered a 991 GT3 Touring in 2018, expecting 911 nirvana, but sadly disappointed. Porsche have continually expanded the capability envelope, but made it less accessible in real-world road conditions (especially UK).
Swapped it for a base, manual, narrow-bodied 991.2 C2 Coupe and, 38k mls, on it’s a better road car (although I do most of my mileage on properly engineered French roads)
Maybe a nicely specd ‘T’ will be the sweet spot in the contemporary model line up ?
Looking forward to some meaningful tests and reviews.
My first car was a rear-engined Hillman Imp, before progressing to 911s, and I fell in love with the handling balance - learning to anticipate and manage the weight transfer, and steering with the throttle.
Had a 2.7RSL for 16 years in tandem with a 3.2CS and both were a joyful expression of how lightness improves all the dynamic qualities - handling, steering, braking, acceleration ….. and at accessible speeds.
Ordered a 991 GT3 Touring in 2018, expecting 911 nirvana, but sadly disappointed. Porsche have continually expanded the capability envelope, but made it less accessible in real-world road conditions (especially UK).
Swapped it for a base, manual, narrow-bodied 991.2 C2 Coupe and, 38k mls, on it’s a better road car (although I do most of my mileage on properly engineered French roads)
Maybe a nicely specd ‘T’ will be the sweet spot in the contemporary model line up ?
Looking forward to some meaningful tests and reviews.
Taffy66 said:
The trouble is the RAS on Porsches only virtually shortens the wheelbase at up to 30mph. Over 50mph it creates a virtual longer wheelbase which only improves higher speed stability and should lessen agility by default. Between 30 and 50mph it shuffles between the two modes depending on steering input etc. The agility at higher speeds might be better due to the reduced slip angle of RAS cars ?
Another confusion is that Porsches fitted with RAS have a lower geared steering rack compared to others without it fitted. Its all rather confusing and sometimes at between 30-50mph on tight hairpin bends in the wet it gives a slightly artificial unpredictable feeling in my experience.
Another factor is the RAS makes cars even more sensitive to geo adjustments especially rear toe. My current 4RS despite being quite a bit shorter than the 992s has actually got a longer wheelbase yet feels much more nimble and chuckable than any 992 despite having no RAS.
On balance, I prefer the benefits of RAS especially on track until it gets wet.
Attempting a tight hairpin bend in the wet at 50mph..? Let me know when you’re next going to attempt this, as I’ll come and watch from a safe distance..! Another confusion is that Porsches fitted with RAS have a lower geared steering rack compared to others without it fitted. Its all rather confusing and sometimes at between 30-50mph on tight hairpin bends in the wet it gives a slightly artificial unpredictable feeling in my experience.
Another factor is the RAS makes cars even more sensitive to geo adjustments especially rear toe. My current 4RS despite being quite a bit shorter than the 992s has actually got a longer wheelbase yet feels much more nimble and chuckable than any 992 despite having no RAS.
On balance, I prefer the benefits of RAS especially on track until it gets wet.
IREvans said:
Attempting a tight hairpin bend in the wet at 50mph..? Let me know when you’re next going to attempt this, as I’ll come and watch from a safe distance..!
If you read my post again what I said was between 30 and 50mph, not 50mph! I was also referring to a typical track driving environment, not public roads which admittedly I should have made clear. I used the speed range of between 30 and 50mph merely because it's the speed range that confuses RAS as it has the option of shuffling between the two settings.
You're very welcome to come and watch me tomorrow at Trac Mon in Anglesey in my GT4 RS. It looks like it's going to be a cracking day weather wise in complete contrast to the last time I was there when it was monsoon weather.
On another completely unrelated note, the OEM brake pads on my GT4 RS are truly awful and overheat badly when put to good use on track. A good chunk of it is already stuck to the discs so I expect some new aftermarket ones after tomorrow. Tempted to try some Endless ones for Steel discs which I've heard good things about.
Taffy66 said:
If you read my post again what I said was between 30 and 50mph, not 50mph!
I was also referring to a typical track driving environment, not public roads which admittedly I should have made clear. I used the speed range of between 30 and 50mph merely because it's the speed range that confuses RAS as it has the option of shuffling between the two settings.
You're very welcome to come and watch me tomorrow at Trac Mon in Anglesey in my GT4 RS. It looks like it's going to be a cracking day weather wise in complete contrast to the last time I was there when it was monsoon weather.
On another completely unrelated note, the OEM brake pads on my GT4 RS are truly awful and overheat badly when put to good use on track. A good chunk of it is already stuck to the discs so I expect some new aftermarket ones after tomorrow. Tempted to try some Endless ones for Steel discs which I've heard good things about.
Every driver I’ve had who complains of brake fade has been using the brakes too much… Be brave, brake less, and carry more speed…!I was also referring to a typical track driving environment, not public roads which admittedly I should have made clear. I used the speed range of between 30 and 50mph merely because it's the speed range that confuses RAS as it has the option of shuffling between the two settings.
You're very welcome to come and watch me tomorrow at Trac Mon in Anglesey in my GT4 RS. It looks like it's going to be a cracking day weather wise in complete contrast to the last time I was there when it was monsoon weather.
On another completely unrelated note, the OEM brake pads on my GT4 RS are truly awful and overheat badly when put to good use on track. A good chunk of it is already stuck to the discs so I expect some new aftermarket ones after tomorrow. Tempted to try some Endless ones for Steel discs which I've heard good things about.
If you like RAS option it.
I think it is useful on a panamera. on a 1500kg car with a short wheelbase (compared to a cayman), less so.
On track, who knows, maybe Taffy can feel the difference in grip, breakaway and turn in, but on the road, it makes no difference in most situations. Considering how much grip there is on the tyres, I think it gimmicky but hey the GT3 has it so what do I know.
Except that now I've tried a GTS without it and used it on roads i know, I can say, without getting out of shape and driving within the car's limits, I don't find it less sharp than the 997.2 RS i have and my current 718 spyder. I wasn't interested in a 992 until now that i've been given an allocation on the GTS. It is interesting that porsche has had to offer a Lithium battery to offset the weight difference.
I'm just saying the chassis is so good as it is, there is more to enjoy just eeking out the natural traction advantages and the understeering pig a 911 is
how's the GT4 RS? i couldn't get on with how difficult the spyder is at the limit on my sole track day at thruxton. Just couldn't trust the rear end. Hope the Gt4 RS solves that problem
I think it is useful on a panamera. on a 1500kg car with a short wheelbase (compared to a cayman), less so.
On track, who knows, maybe Taffy can feel the difference in grip, breakaway and turn in, but on the road, it makes no difference in most situations. Considering how much grip there is on the tyres, I think it gimmicky but hey the GT3 has it so what do I know.
Except that now I've tried a GTS without it and used it on roads i know, I can say, without getting out of shape and driving within the car's limits, I don't find it less sharp than the 997.2 RS i have and my current 718 spyder. I wasn't interested in a 992 until now that i've been given an allocation on the GTS. It is interesting that porsche has had to offer a Lithium battery to offset the weight difference.
I'm just saying the chassis is so good as it is, there is more to enjoy just eeking out the natural traction advantages and the understeering pig a 911 is
how's the GT4 RS? i couldn't get on with how difficult the spyder is at the limit on my sole track day at thruxton. Just couldn't trust the rear end. Hope the Gt4 RS solves that problem
IREvans said:
Every driver I’ve had who complains of brake fade has been using the brakes too much… Be brave, brake less, and carry more speed…!
I find that guys who don't brake hard enough on track tend to either crash or spin off 
. Hope we don't get antics like that tomorrow. PCGB days can be very interesting for completely the wrong reasons 
HokumPokum said:
If you like RAS option it.
I think it is useful on a panamera. on a 1500kg car with a short wheelbase (compared to a cayman), less so.
On track, who knows, maybe Taffy can feel the difference in grip, breakaway and turn in, but on the road, it makes no difference in most situations. Considering how much grip there is on the tyres, I think it gimmicky but hey the GT3 has it so what do I know.
Except that now I've tried a GTS without it and used it on roads i know, I can say, without getting out of shape and driving within the car's limits, I don't find it less sharp than the 997.2 RS i have and my current 718 spyder. I wasn't interested in a 992 until now that i've been given an allocation on the GTS. It is interesting that porsche has had to offer a Lithium battery to offset the weight difference.
I'm just saying the chassis is so good as it is, there is more to enjoy just eeking out the natural traction advantages and the understeering pig a 911 is
how's the GT4 RS? i couldn't get on with how difficult the spyder is at the limit on my sole track day at thruxton. Just couldn't trust the rear end. Hope the Gt4 RS solves that problem
I agree with you on the RASI think it is useful on a panamera. on a 1500kg car with a short wheelbase (compared to a cayman), less so.
On track, who knows, maybe Taffy can feel the difference in grip, breakaway and turn in, but on the road, it makes no difference in most situations. Considering how much grip there is on the tyres, I think it gimmicky but hey the GT3 has it so what do I know.
Except that now I've tried a GTS without it and used it on roads i know, I can say, without getting out of shape and driving within the car's limits, I don't find it less sharp than the 997.2 RS i have and my current 718 spyder. I wasn't interested in a 992 until now that i've been given an allocation on the GTS. It is interesting that porsche has had to offer a Lithium battery to offset the weight difference.
I'm just saying the chassis is so good as it is, there is more to enjoy just eeking out the natural traction advantages and the understeering pig a 911 is
how's the GT4 RS? i couldn't get on with how difficult the spyder is at the limit on my sole track day at thruxton. Just couldn't trust the rear end. Hope the Gt4 RS solves that problem
In terms of the 4RS on track it's completely different to the Spyder you had. The Spyder is a very enjoyable road car but too soft for hard track use. The spring rates and slightly wooly steering of the Spyder make it a not very confidence inspiring car to drive on the limit, especially under hard braking( Yes you have to brake much harder on track).
The 4RS has much stiffer spring rates (100Nm/mm F and 140Nm/mm rear compared to 45Nm/mm 80 R on the 718GT4. As you know this platform benefits a lot from a more track biased geo like having much more toe-in on the rear to aid stability under braking. Fitting stiffer springs up front say 60Nm also helps.
Are you coming tomorrow ?
Taffy66 said:
The trouble is the RAS on Porsches only virtually shortens the wheelbase at up to 30mph. Over 50mph it creates a virtual longer wheelbase which only improves higher speed stability and should lessen agility by default. Between 30 and 50mph it shuffles between the two modes depending on steering input etc. The agility at higher speeds might be better due to the reduced slip angle of RAS cars ?
Another confusion is that Porsches fitted with RAS have a lower geared steering rack compared to others without it fitted. Its all rather confusing and sometimes at between 30-50mph on tight hairpin bends in the wet it gives a slightly artificial unpredictable feeling in my experience.
Another factor is the RAS makes cars even more sensitive to geo adjustments especially rear toe. My current 4RS despite being quite a bit shorter than the 992s has actually got a longer wheelbase yet feels much more nimble and chuckable than any 992 despite having no RAS.
On balance, I prefer the benefits of RAS especially on track until it gets wet.
If I’d known it was you I was quoting I’d have kept schtum. You know you’re Porsches and how to drive them better than I. Another confusion is that Porsches fitted with RAS have a lower geared steering rack compared to others without it fitted. Its all rather confusing and sometimes at between 30-50mph on tight hairpin bends in the wet it gives a slightly artificial unpredictable feeling in my experience.
Another factor is the RAS makes cars even more sensitive to geo adjustments especially rear toe. My current 4RS despite being quite a bit shorter than the 992s has actually got a longer wheelbase yet feels much more nimble and chuckable than any 992 despite having no RAS.
On balance, I prefer the benefits of RAS especially on track until it gets wet.
But I have been seriously impressed by RAS. Maybe it’s just the quicker steering rack!Maxym said:
If I’d known it was you I was quoting I’d have kept schtum. You know you’re Porsches and how to drive them better than I. But I have been seriously impressed by RAS. Maybe it’s just the quicker steering rack!
Ha Ha.. I'm pretty sure you're a better driver than me. RAS really does split opinions doesn't it? As I said previously I loved my old 991.2 GTS with RAS and equally hated my 992S without it. However, since they're different gen cars I'm struggling on whether to blame the RAS or is it something else. But I have been seriously impressed by RAS. Maybe it’s just the quicker steering rack!Having thought about it I will keep the RAS on my 992T build. I really think the T with Manual will really be the sweet spot out of all the 992 range even including the GT ones. Can't wait for mine to arrive !
Taffy66 said:
Maxym said:
If I’d known it was you I was quoting I’d have kept schtum. You know you’re Porsches and how to drive them better than I. But I have been seriously impressed by RAS. Maybe it’s just the quicker steering rack!
I really think the T with Manual will really be the sweet spot out of all the 992 range even including the GT ones. Can't wait for mine to arrive ! But I have been seriously impressed by RAS. Maybe it’s just the quicker steering rack!
Taffy66 said:
HokumPokum said:
If you like RAS option it.
I think it is useful on a panamera. on a 1500kg car with a short wheelbase (compared to a cayman), less so.
On track, who knows, maybe Taffy can feel the difference in grip, breakaway and turn in, but on the road, it makes no difference in most situations. Considering how much grip there is on the tyres, I think it gimmicky but hey the GT3 has it so what do I know.
Except that now I've tried a GTS without it and used it on roads i know, I can say, without getting out of shape and driving within the car's limits, I don't find it less sharp than the 997.2 RS i have and my current 718 spyder. I wasn't interested in a 992 until now that i've been given an allocation on the GTS. It is interesting that porsche has had to offer a Lithium battery to offset the weight difference.
I'm just saying the chassis is so good as it is, there is more to enjoy just eeking out the natural traction advantages and the understeering pig a 911 is
how's the GT4 RS? i couldn't get on with how difficult the spyder is at the limit on my sole track day at thruxton. Just couldn't trust the rear end. Hope the Gt4 RS solves that problem
I agree with you on the RASI think it is useful on a panamera. on a 1500kg car with a short wheelbase (compared to a cayman), less so.
On track, who knows, maybe Taffy can feel the difference in grip, breakaway and turn in, but on the road, it makes no difference in most situations. Considering how much grip there is on the tyres, I think it gimmicky but hey the GT3 has it so what do I know.
Except that now I've tried a GTS without it and used it on roads i know, I can say, without getting out of shape and driving within the car's limits, I don't find it less sharp than the 997.2 RS i have and my current 718 spyder. I wasn't interested in a 992 until now that i've been given an allocation on the GTS. It is interesting that porsche has had to offer a Lithium battery to offset the weight difference.
I'm just saying the chassis is so good as it is, there is more to enjoy just eeking out the natural traction advantages and the understeering pig a 911 is
how's the GT4 RS? i couldn't get on with how difficult the spyder is at the limit on my sole track day at thruxton. Just couldn't trust the rear end. Hope the Gt4 RS solves that problem
In terms of the 4RS on track it's completely different to the Spyder you had. The Spyder is a very enjoyable road car but too soft for hard track use. The spring rates and slightly wooly steering of the Spyder make it a not very confidence inspiring car to drive on the limit, especially under hard braking( Yes you have to brake much harder on track).
The 4RS has much stiffer spring rates (100Nm/mm F and 140Nm/mm rear compared to 45Nm/mm 80 R on the 718GT4. As you know this platform benefits a lot from a more track biased geo like having much more toe-in on the rear to aid stability under braking. Fitting stiffer springs up front say 60Nm also helps.
Are you coming tomorrow ?
I don't find the 718 spyder soft tbh and it isn't about braking either, I find the application of power not very confidence inspiring at high speeds. I had mine set at -2 and -1.5 with slight toe in.
I prolly ought to try tracking it again but it's much nicer as a road car where i don't feel compelled to add power at 80+mph corners.
That's also why i have an Alpine A110R on order after I tried an A110 S at thruxton. Apples to Oranges but i can't wait either to put it thru its paces.
Re the RAS, I'm afraid that question is hard to answer and to be on the safe side, you'll be better off with it on a manual "driver's spec" car. especially if you go the full lightweight pack.
Too bad PCCB not available..... This would be the only car you can rag (hopefully) at the limit more often than you can others outside of a track day.
Geneve said:
Taffy66 said:
I really think the T with Manual will really be the sweet spot out of all the 992 range even including the GT ones. Can't wait for mine to arrive !
Suspect likewise - in fact, I expect it will be a better ‘touring GT’ than the GT3 Touring.Got a 992 Touring, but was disappointed with it as a roadcar. Sold it back to the dealer with a fair premium and was given a 992 T allocation.
Castellet said:
Geneve said:
Taffy66 said:
I really think the T with Manual will really be the sweet spot out of all the 992 range even including the GT ones. Can't wait for mine to arrive !
Suspect likewise - in fact, I expect it will be a better ‘touring GT’ than the GT3 Touring.Got a 992 Touring, but was disappointed with it as a roadcar. Sold it back to the dealer with a fair premium and was given a 992 T allocation.
New one available on Porsche website if anyone interested?
https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch...
https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch...
ClubsportStr said:
New one available on Porsche website if anyone interested?
https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch...
In ‘heavyweight’ spec https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch...
Koln-RS said:
ClubsportStr said:
New one available on Porsche website if anyone interested?
https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch...
In ‘heavyweight’ spec https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch...
When you think things like a passenger side wing mirror, radio, electric windows or a heater used to be options, it makes you realise just how silly its become. I believe 'Gilding the Lilly' is the expression.
Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff