997/996 GT3 dynamics
Discussion
Great thread.
In terms of 996 vs 997 i can only compare the .2 versions each back to back.
Out of the box and on the road I definitely preferred my now departed 996.3 gt3. It always reminds me of a very grown up 106 Rallye. On track it was great particularly at somewhere like Snetterton.
At Spa I actually prefer the 997.2 it feels a little more with me at speed however this could be due to the car being a bit more track orientated in terms modification. The Surface Transforms are sensational bits of kit and are wonderful on track.
Sound wise 996 all day long if OEM however the 997 with an akropovic is amazing.
Im sadly out of my 996 now due to wanting to clear some.wedding debt but luckily can still steal the 997 keys from the old man and have a lovely little Cayman R to keep me entertained.
In terms of 996 vs 997 i can only compare the .2 versions each back to back.
Out of the box and on the road I definitely preferred my now departed 996.3 gt3. It always reminds me of a very grown up 106 Rallye. On track it was great particularly at somewhere like Snetterton.
At Spa I actually prefer the 997.2 it feels a little more with me at speed however this could be due to the car being a bit more track orientated in terms modification. The Surface Transforms are sensational bits of kit and are wonderful on track.
Sound wise 996 all day long if OEM however the 997 with an akropovic is amazing.
Im sadly out of my 996 now due to wanting to clear some.wedding debt but luckily can still steal the 997 keys from the old man and have a lovely little Cayman R to keep me entertained.
Braddo
I’ve got a 6.2, I’m not a good enough driver to tell you about how it feels from a technical pov, but I can vividly remember my test drive And also the one in my 964 and that was 13 years ago !
It felt SO different ! I’d owned a 996 C2, but the noise of the gt, the pull from the engine, the way it revved, the way it felt ALIVE, inside it felt special to.....the nomex recaros, the harnesses, the cage, the centre console delete, it felt like a race car for the road. I was lucky enoughh to have the cash in the bank so I just had to have it, I knew within a few hundred yards I was having it ! Negotiation was futile I was putty in the hands of the seller and he knew it !
Broke all the buying rules as I did with my 964, I bought the first one I went to view, but that’s 911s....for the marketers out there it’s the pull of the teenage bedroom poster syndrome, the want is there simmering for years and years before circumstances allow it to happen, any way I don’t want to stray from the point of your thread!
I’ve got a 6.2, I’m not a good enough driver to tell you about how it feels from a technical pov, but I can vividly remember my test drive And also the one in my 964 and that was 13 years ago !
It felt SO different ! I’d owned a 996 C2, but the noise of the gt, the pull from the engine, the way it revved, the way it felt ALIVE, inside it felt special to.....the nomex recaros, the harnesses, the cage, the centre console delete, it felt like a race car for the road. I was lucky enoughh to have the cash in the bank so I just had to have it, I knew within a few hundred yards I was having it ! Negotiation was futile I was putty in the hands of the seller and he knew it !
Broke all the buying rules as I did with my 964, I bought the first one I went to view, but that’s 911s....for the marketers out there it’s the pull of the teenage bedroom poster syndrome, the want is there simmering for years and years before circumstances allow it to happen, any way I don’t want to stray from the point of your thread!
Singh911 said:
Yes i was there in the LHD car. Fun filled day that was
Thank for the passenger laps, really appreciated.I'd no idea how powerful the GT3 brakes were until that point, or how late you can brake these cars. This trail braking was something I instantly got - it seemed very intuitive to me and the way, in my mind, I wanted a car to work. A revelation.
Thanks for this thread, braddo. It's reminded me to dust off my 996 and drive it. I'm embarrassed to admit I haven't done a track day for a year now.
I learnt to drive in 6 GT3, by which I mean not learnt to drive but learnt to DRIVE, if you see what I mean.
It started with autocross events in a 996 Carrera. I couldn't understand why my times were so poor. The front kept washing out on tight corners and I was one of the slowest cars on track for about a season. Then I read up on the 911's handling characteristics and learnt to get that front tucked in.
I'd heard someone had handed his year old cobalt blue 6 GT3 back to the OPC, so I popped round before it was put up for sale. The salesman was only too delighted to have it off his hands the same day it came in. It was a steal in those days (esp as this was Dubai where cars depreciated like mad).
I moved to sprints and then eventually wheel to wheel in the local club racing championship. I remember the first time I put slicks on it, with standard suspension. The tyres gripped like mad but the body listed like a ship in a storm. Soon fixed that with some KW Mantheys. Then I learnt to play with geometry and setup, although if truth be told it's still a mysterious dark art to me.
The car morphed with me, and my skills improved. By the end it was halfway between an RS and a Cup car, and I think I was getting pretty quick. I can still remember the mad adrenaline rush when the lights went green, and that first corner when you think everyone will wipe out. When I came in for the halfway pitstop, it was curiously surreal. Sitting in the intense heat of the cabin, bathed in sweat, absolute calm and quiet whilst I watched the smoke rising from the brake pads. A heady cocktail of rubber, coolant, oil, clutch and sweat. I should have bottled it and patented it.
When I came back to the UK, I stopped racing for a few years and when I dabbled in a few club races I found I'd lost the art of trailing. It was embarrassing, frankly. I've made a promise to myself to try harder this year.
There's nothing on sale like it anymore. The only things that appeal are the GT3 Touring and the M2 Competition, both in manual. Otherwise everything leaves me cold. I live not far from the McLaren factory. Every time I see one, I think meh....
I learnt to drive in 6 GT3, by which I mean not learnt to drive but learnt to DRIVE, if you see what I mean.
It started with autocross events in a 996 Carrera. I couldn't understand why my times were so poor. The front kept washing out on tight corners and I was one of the slowest cars on track for about a season. Then I read up on the 911's handling characteristics and learnt to get that front tucked in.
I'd heard someone had handed his year old cobalt blue 6 GT3 back to the OPC, so I popped round before it was put up for sale. The salesman was only too delighted to have it off his hands the same day it came in. It was a steal in those days (esp as this was Dubai where cars depreciated like mad).
I moved to sprints and then eventually wheel to wheel in the local club racing championship. I remember the first time I put slicks on it, with standard suspension. The tyres gripped like mad but the body listed like a ship in a storm. Soon fixed that with some KW Mantheys. Then I learnt to play with geometry and setup, although if truth be told it's still a mysterious dark art to me.
The car morphed with me, and my skills improved. By the end it was halfway between an RS and a Cup car, and I think I was getting pretty quick. I can still remember the mad adrenaline rush when the lights went green, and that first corner when you think everyone will wipe out. When I came in for the halfway pitstop, it was curiously surreal. Sitting in the intense heat of the cabin, bathed in sweat, absolute calm and quiet whilst I watched the smoke rising from the brake pads. A heady cocktail of rubber, coolant, oil, clutch and sweat. I should have bottled it and patented it.
When I came back to the UK, I stopped racing for a few years and when I dabbled in a few club races I found I'd lost the art of trailing. It was embarrassing, frankly. I've made a promise to myself to try harder this year.
There's nothing on sale like it anymore. The only things that appeal are the GT3 Touring and the M2 Competition, both in manual. Otherwise everything leaves me cold. I live not far from the McLaren factory. Every time I see one, I think meh....
It's great to read these stories of how these cars feel 'right' almost instantly to some people when they get behind the wheel for the first time.A man can never have enough GT3s. In any iteration it's the car the vanilla 911 should have been in the first place. There are faster cars out there but few are as direct, immersive, exciting and able to edge you on to become a(n even) better driver every time you get into it
One of my favourite memories is driving a slightly fettled 6RS on wet/rainy Ascari circuit. This thing just felt so right
One of my favourite memories is driving a slightly fettled 6RS on wet/rainy Ascari circuit. This thing just felt so right
I had a great early morning drive yesterday. Car got a bit dirty though...
Unfortunately I encountered some roadkill on the motorway that couldn't be avoided and I had to drive over it. I think it was a badger... I found this when I got home.
The front brake duct and the mudflap thing in front of the rear wheel have also been dislodged so I'll have to see if they're broken.
Unfortunately I encountered some roadkill on the motorway that couldn't be avoided and I had to drive over it. I think it was a badger... I found this when I got home.
The front brake duct and the mudflap thing in front of the rear wheel have also been dislodged so I'll have to see if they're broken.
This Topic made me pop to the garage uncover my 996.1 CS K400 and first, just have a coffee while looking at her and then a 20 drive.
Great topic.. this thread should keep me away from swapping to a GT4 for a few weeks.
I came like a few of you, from a few 993’s into a 996.1 GT3, sold it in 2011 for a Cayman S then a Cayman R followed soon after as the ‘event’ was not there when I drove the Cayman S. The Cayman R was a great car but I always wanted back into a GT3, came close to buying a 997.1 comfort. So I can’t compare the 996 v 997, and I’ve only done 3 or 4 trackdays in my driving lifetime so again, I’m not the man to say about handling.
But I’ve driven many super cars, hot hatches and like and nothing comes close to a GT3. Just the feel, the pantomime even as you’re walking up to the car I still get butterflies. Then as the key turns and that great engine raws to life, I’ve had no better feeling of a car.
Great package.
Mine has just covered 59,000 miles and is as tight as a drum. Plus from any angle looks like a 20 year old car.
Any handling advice always appreciated.
Dan
Great topic.. this thread should keep me away from swapping to a GT4 for a few weeks.
I came like a few of you, from a few 993’s into a 996.1 GT3, sold it in 2011 for a Cayman S then a Cayman R followed soon after as the ‘event’ was not there when I drove the Cayman S. The Cayman R was a great car but I always wanted back into a GT3, came close to buying a 997.1 comfort. So I can’t compare the 996 v 997, and I’ve only done 3 or 4 trackdays in my driving lifetime so again, I’m not the man to say about handling.
But I’ve driven many super cars, hot hatches and like and nothing comes close to a GT3. Just the feel, the pantomime even as you’re walking up to the car I still get butterflies. Then as the key turns and that great engine raws to life, I’ve had no better feeling of a car.
Great package.
Mine has just covered 59,000 miles and is as tight as a drum. Plus from any angle looks like a 20 year old car.
Any handling advice always appreciated.
Dan
Somehow I've managed to not drive any 6gt3 despite driving pretty much every other one of the 9X6 range.
.. But (and I am admittedly biased here) but I do think the 7.2s mark the last of the era in terms of cars that are 'analogue' or at least analogue-ish to drive. the 991s are very good and extremly capable but just... different imo. Still don't think I've driven a car made after 2011 that's had anything like the overall amount of feel/involvement in all respects as the 7gt3s.
.. But (and I am admittedly biased here) but I do think the 7.2s mark the last of the era in terms of cars that are 'analogue' or at least analogue-ish to drive. the 991s are very good and extremly capable but just... different imo. Still don't think I've driven a car made after 2011 that's had anything like the overall amount of feel/involvement in all respects as the 7gt3s.Old story but I remember having spent a season racing a 996 cup. Lots of laps lot of races blah blah. In my mind, the cup was a quantum step up. I’d had literally 1000’s of laps in GT3’s. gen1’s 2’s and RS’s previously but during that season there was a lot of racing and I’d had no time to help out at track days during the year with set ups etc.. I think I’d subconsciously even left it behind. Then, at the end of the season I had occasion to take a 6RS for an MOT. Expecting a softer, blunter, less visceral experience I was stunned. Basically, I was driving a quieter cup car with carpets and a number plate. It wasn’t a ‘well there is definitely a mutually shared dna’ thing. They were essentially the same car. Given that any 996 GT3 is not that far off of an RS, they offer a genuine GT race car experience. Not a ‘bending of the rules pretending’ but a genuine race car experience for the road. For that reason my love affair with the 996 GT3 will never end. Wonderful, Spectacular cars.
Edited by Steve Rance on Sunday 27th January 20:00
So...to add a bit of dynamic colour to what these cars are like to drive, I have pulled together a side by side video clip of the above 996 GT3 and a 997 GT3 RS at Spa. Now I do not profess to be a champion driver - just an enthusiastic amateur like any of us here.
With each of these cars one could choose to stay on circuit for 40 minute endurance stints if so desired - the amateur driver will fatigue before the car!
I thought it would be interesting to see how the cars differ over a lap...and (to my mind) how the 996s are not all that slow compared to one of the later mezger cars - yes of course I'm sure more seasoned drivers here can point out that one or the other car could be driven a lot better
Both cars are stock engines and on Mich PS Cup2 tyres. The 996 is on Nitron 3-way race suspension.
https://youtu.be/Efw0vxwROEA
(I did get distracted by a Radical behind me at the end of the 997 lap in the chicane and overshot a bit, but it gives the general idea anyway)
As Steve says above, it does show any 996 punches above its weight.
Edited by LaSource on Sunday 27th January 20:36
isaldiri said:
Somehow I've managed to not drive any 6gt3 despite driving pretty much every other one of the 9X6 range... But (and I am admittedly biased here) but I do think the 7.2s mark the last of the era in terms of cars that are 'analogue' or at least analogue-ish to drive. the 991s are very good and extremly capable but just... different imo. Still don't think I've driven a car made after 2011 that's had anything like the overall amount of feel/involvement in all respects as the 7gt3s.
We do need to fix this and get you behind the wheel of a 996 soon....let's make it happen in the next few months... But (and I am admittedly biased here) but I do think the 7.2s mark the last of the era in terms of cars that are 'analogue' or at least analogue-ish to drive. the 991s are very good and extremly capable but just... different imo. Still don't think I've driven a car made after 2011 that's had anything like the overall amount of feel/involvement in all respects as the 7gt3s.What a great thread. Brings back a lot of memories of my 996.2 GT3 that I bought from an OPC in the middle of winter. Great fun even in the snow. I always found it struggled on bumpier B roads but I took it to the Alps and it devoured the miles. 600+ miles in a day on the motorway with some music on and then spectacular on the twisty bits. 3500 mile round trip in comfort with no issues. The engine was the star, really something special. The car was so interactive and full of feel.
I’ve been lucky enough to have had most generations of fast 911 (2.7RS to 991.2 GT3) and while I really love the old stuff, the 996 GT3 is right up there and by far the best / cheapest way to get a top class driving experience at the moment. I’m very tempted to get another - the current Porsche performance bargain if ever there was one!
I’ve been lucky enough to have had most generations of fast 911 (2.7RS to 991.2 GT3) and while I really love the old stuff, the 996 GT3 is right up there and by far the best / cheapest way to get a top class driving experience at the moment. I’m very tempted to get another - the current Porsche performance bargain if ever there was one!
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