gt3 ...138 cars for sale !!!!

[993rsr]

Taffy66 said:

993rsr said:

And something useful, balanced and factual - thanks. Compared to the 'videos' used elsewhere in an attempt to suggest a manual 991GT3.2 is fastest - presumably a red one - this is very informative.

I edited my post after you quoted it, read my last paragraph to see my conclusion..

Thanks, very useful to know from somebody with actual experience of both variants who's driven them on track.

[av185]

browngt3 said:

@av185, fantastic! This is the kind of insightful post we need on PH! Nicely technical but not too much and neatly explains what a cracker the new engine is.

And not a word about Brexit

[Taffy66]

franki68 said:

He is manually shifting and changing early it looks like.
Every time the manual changes gear the pdk should gain yards,it doesn’t ,it’s either very tight engine or the driver is somehow (maybe deliberately ?) cocking it up.

If it makes you all warm then fine but personally I wouldn’t draw any conclusion from such a video .

Edited by franki68 on Friday 5th October 09:54

Well observed and another anomaly to add to my list..

[993rsr]

Digga said:

993rsr said:

Digga said:

Taffy66 said:

Digga said:

This, with my old 996 turbo around the Nordschleife; obliterate stuff like Elises on the straighter bits, but then had to be ready for them in your mirrors after a couple of the twistier sections.

Just goes to show there that adding power is no substitute to removing weight..I love the new Lotus Exige 410/430 for that very reason.I prefer a car with a power/weight ratio of 400BHP/tON with 430BHP rather from a car with 600BHP..

Completely. My 997 GT3 took a bit of getting used to - you do miss the almost ballistic shove of a mapped turbo, and you need to keep the revs right up - but on braking and turn-in, it is night and day better. More agile, precise and 'placeable'.

Most fun car I ever drove was a TVR Tuscan Racer; roughly 450hp, slick tyres and less than 900kgs all-up. Mental around the full Silverstone GP circuit.

Which is why I'm really conflicted about the PCCB's; I know they don't last with a lot of track use, but I think (placebo effect is a powerful thing!) I can perceive the better wheel control and pick-up, due to the lower un-sprung and rotating masses. The head says throw some Alcon steels on, but the heart says Surface Transforms....

Even the latest generation PCCB's will not stick sustained track use. I had the original set replaced under warranty on a 991RS.1 due to issues with the bobbins and as a matter of interest had the wear checked on the old ones. From memory just under 40% on the rear and just under 30% on the front after maybe 15 -20 track days. Always run with all systems off.

Surface Transforms really have some good products, I was an early subscriber and they had issues with pad match and bedding in early on, but are now a very durable product compared to any of the other CCB products out there. Lot's of information on Rennlist about them.

More wear on front because I am guessing that the 991, like the 997 still uses the braking system to augment the LSD, even when everything's officially switched "off"?

I'm guessing having non OEM discs is awkward if/when people want to renew Porsche warranty though.

I ran them on a 980 which there was no extended warranty for so not an issue. Whether an OPC would 'twig' the non OEM ceramics I'm not sure. I know on my 997RS when I ran BBS wheels, had to swap back to OEM each year for the warranty renewal. Bit more of a ball ache to do this for discs.

These are 380mm direct replacements:

Edited by 993rsr on Friday 5th October 10:19

[Porsche911R]

over wearing rears is just a PTV over compensating for bad driving....

[993rsr]

Porsche911R said:

over wearing rears is just a PTV over compensating for bad driving....

I'll be at Silverstone on Tuesday, come and show me how it's done and where I'm going wrong.

I presume you've got an AARDS Instructors licence?

And then I can have the pleasure of telling you to your face your're talking out of your axxe:-)

See the word WHENEVER:

This means that, whenever the car enters a corner, brake pressure is applied to the inside rear wheel. Consequently, a greater amount of drive force is distributed to the outside rear wheel, almost pulling the car into the corner. Turn-in capability is improved, agility is increased.

Edited by 993rsr on Friday 5th October 10:46

[franki68]

Porsche911R said:

franki68 said:

Every time the manual changes gear the pdk should gain yards,
T

why should it ? did you watch the turbo S vid vs the manual GT3 last year ?

a flat shift losses very little. remember the manual driver has a much harder time getting the best from it at red line even though the PDK driver fluffs up a few runs, the last run is the best run imo.

just a bit of fun any way to look at.

The turbo vs gt3 doesn’t contradict science or all other evidence ,gt3s have always been faster at higher speeds than the turbos if I remember right (definitely with the 997 variants) .(pissed me off when I had a turbo and friend said his gt3 was faster above 100 ..and it was)

[JulierPass]

hunter 66 said:

Yes run by Silverstone ............ sound easier and not big price , I will turn up late morning as possible fog this time of the year . But weather looks good so good to run late afternoon when some go home and the track gets clearer so cleaner runs ...
Maybe Yellow can bring the 675LT or maybe even some VW model .( he has a few )
Macca can bring the F40 then we have a laugh

Is this the RMA day next tuesday? I'll likely be there in the 996 RS. Got a day at Donnington on the monday 15th as well.

[JulierPass]

isaldiri said:

Yep, I was the loon in the 4.0.

unfortunately didn't seem to see any particular driving god on track that day though as I'm always looking to learn something on track...

Ahh that was you was it? Car had black wheels? I was in this. That twice now we've been on the same day and not known, need to better organised so can say hello over a coffee.

[nw942]

Taffy66 said:

... i've driven both gen 1 and gen 2 flatout on track and apart from a meatier mid range torque on the gen 2 there isn't a huge difference in overall performance between the two.

So somewhere like Anglesey, the 991.1 posted a time of 1:38.10 (Chris Harris) and the 991.2 a time of 1:34.96 (Jethro Bovingdon). So that's ~ 3 seconds difference.

I know there are too many variables to prevent it being a true comparison, but where is the 991.2 finding the time?

Is it mainly the engine, drivetrain, tyres, brakes, chassis/suspension? Or just small gains everywhere including aero?

If Bovingdon tested them back-to-back on the same tyres, would the gap still be ~3 seconds?

[TDT]

JulierPass said:

Is this the RMA day next tuesday? I'll likely be there in the 996 RS. Got a day at Donnington on the monday 15th as well.

Next Tuesday is Silverstone directly.

[JulierPass]

TDT said:

Next Tuesday is Silverstone directly.

You are quite right. It's the Tuesday after that i'm there

[WCZ]

993rsr said:

I presume you've got an AARDS Instructors licence?

Edited by 993rsr on Friday 5th October 10:46

plenty of good drivers around who don't

[TDT]

isaldiri said:

Porsche911R said:

I went to visit some friends on track, TDT as it happens, I was in said car when we did a few laps together, hence my straight line comments oo how the cars are very much the same, and Apollo in the GT2 RS.
.....

....
If you must know, I intentionally slowed up to follow tdt's car for a while, then cleared off but slowed again after a .2 3rs nearly spun off in front of me (amazing few btw seeing the stability control kick on to try to stabilise the car) and then let him pass to refollow him a few laps when he passed me.
....

Was an interesting day for me... was my first non-Porsche-only day and my second time @ Silverstone. Was great day - very busy, loads of interesting metal - but very well organised.

@isaldiri... without being too harsh!...what were your thoughts about my car, driving, line, when you were following?

In terms of times - I was running in the low 2.36s, theoretical best of low 2.35s - losing time in Abbey and Copse...at present i just don't have confidence with blind apexes...

Edited by TDT on Friday 5th October 12:39

[Porsche911R]

993rsr said:

See the word WHENEVER:

This means that, whenever the car enters a corner, brake pressure is applied to the inside rear wheel. Consequently, a greater amount of drive force is distributed to the outside rear wheel, almost pulling the car into the corner. Turn-in capability is improved, agility is increased.

I tend to find drivers go in too hot and hence PTV gets you round (as you stated above) , as you say pulling you into the corner, rather then you waving some where in the distance at the apex after going in guns slinging if you were in a car without PTV .;-)

Hence not a fan of PDK and e-diff cars for fun and improving your skill levels, just makes the ave driver look a better driver. A tell is normally the bent front tyre tread as they go unsteering every where and they start to bend backwards due to heat, or worn rear disks.
As the car has more understeer, PTV works harder it's a circle of doom and again so common to see.

of course the manual still has PTV but a normal diff, over the PDK, PTV Plus and e-diff doing EVERY thing for you if you go in too hot.

if you understand corner entry, load transfer/weight transfer slip angles and your threshold braking is upto standard then PTV plays a lesser part and you won't see the rear wear as much. One can shout "flat car" to yourself if you like F1 training style. Or you can just hoon in and lean on the electronics.

to quote Porsche
"When the car is driven assertively into a corner, moderate brake pressure is applied to the inside rear wheel. Consequently, a greater amount of drive force is distributed to the outside rear wheel, inducing an additional rotational pulse, they work by intelligently braking the rear wheels as the situation demands."

PTV plus goes one step more as it works with the E-diff and PSM to quote
"PTV Plus is equipped with electronic control offering fully variable torque distribution. In interaction with Porsche Stability Management (PSM), the system improves driving stability"

key word there is stability, again if you understand corner entry you will have a stable car platform to start with and less interaction needed by the electrics and thus less rear disk wear.

I also read the word "assertively" as "in a clueless manner" and "situation demands" = "you f**ked up" in Porsche 1st quote and hence why any noddy can get a fast lap these days and feel good about it, well not a fast lap, but a lap faster than they would other wise.

I guess Porsche had to be more tactful and use "assertively" over "clueless manner"

Enjoy Tuesday, I am at work sadly.

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 5th October 13:21

[Digga]

JulierPass said:

Ahh that was you was it? Car had black wheels? I was in this.

That looks like a lot of fun! I'm sure it's no coincidence that there are so many track cars. Lovely.

(I know this is the Porsche forum, and there's one "B" word we're not allowed to mention any more, but BMW 3 series track cars is okay, surely?)

[Petrus1983]

WCZ said:

993rsr said:

I presume you've got an AARDS Instructors licence?

Edited by 993rsr on Friday 5th October 10:46

plenty of good drivers around who don't

And some bad ones who do

[JulierPass]

Digga said:

hat looks like a lot of fun! I'm sure it's no coincidence that there are so many track cars. Lovely.

(I know this is the Porsche forum, and there's one "B" word we're not allowed to mention any more, but BMW 3 series track cars is okay, surely?)

Thanks Digga. To be fair I was shaking this down as I'll be racing it next year. I'm usually in a GT3 or RS of some variant. A dedicated car is good fun, but as good the BMW is I'd rather be in a 996 RS any day

[Porsche911R]

Petrus1983 said:

WCZ said:

993rsr said:

I presume you've got an AARDS Instructors licence?

Edited by 993rsr on Friday 5th October 10:46

plenty of good drivers around who don't

And some bad ones who do

I found this, I have had a few poor instructors, hence I tended to stick to current racing drivers to improve but not had any training for a while.

I find the ave track day instructor lacking for advanced work, but of course there are many great ones, but imo still better to hire a current pro racer if you hit a level and want to take it a step more, I just found the next step is harder on the car, you need more track bias geo and for what end !! winning at track day ! so I stopped doing them, it just eats money better spend on Euro trips or weekends way with the other half.


on a plus note the mods have been removing abuse posts which lets hope will make for a better forum going forward.
team work will over come the abuse ;-)

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 5th October 14:00

[GT4RS]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Being honest cmoose you are boring me now.........YAWN

Please can we just end our conversation here.