997.1 GT3 - 911 Virgin
Discussion
ferrisbueller said:
I had a conversation about selling a car into a main dealer some time ago. When discussing the offer, this is the info the buyer sent to me after offering £45k:
"Car would be retailed at £65k. We pay VAT on the margin and put a warranty on the car. Approved used car standards are high, so the car wouldn't be cheap to prepare and bring up to standard.
A starting margin of circa £20k. If we are lucky there's a net margin of circa £5k with all costs taken into account".
How much of that is accurate I don't know, I didn't sell them the car. The car was mint - it had just been through their workshop which is why they offered to buy it.....
I’ve been in a very similar situation in the past, I have always found selling privately can work well as long as you are not to greedy in your asking price. I does make me chuckle when I see some of the private asking prices of certain cars compared to OPC used car pricing. If your buying a used car privately without an official Porsche warranty it needs to be reflected in the asking price. I have always put at least 1 years extended Porsche warranty on a car when I have sold in the past, that way the buyer has a level of further confidence in what they are buying. "Car would be retailed at £65k. We pay VAT on the margin and put a warranty on the car. Approved used car standards are high, so the car wouldn't be cheap to prepare and bring up to standard.
A starting margin of circa £20k. If we are lucky there's a net margin of circa £5k with all costs taken into account".
How much of that is accurate I don't know, I didn't sell them the car. The car was mint - it had just been through their workshop which is why they offered to buy it.....
If a car can sell quickly at a retail price of 70k in an Opc it would need to priced at least 10k less with a extended warranty imo. Without an extended Porsche warranty it could be a tough sell in today climate.
Porsche gt cars aren’t flying off the shelves at the moment so OPC centres will want to protect themselves.
IMI A said:
touché 
Better not deal cars!!!! I know 911V were only taking a few grand out of that car as it was on SOR.
It seems with some dealers newer into the market they’re looking to bag £20k on a car but when you take VAT on profit and any warranty claims on an old car that profit can disappear pretty quickly. You’re essentially paying a finders fee for buying a sound car with no stories.
Mate of mine tried selling his car recently went to Top 555, Bramley, Romans etc they were all pretty open/blunt/honest that they wanted a 20% margin on the car. Which in this case was close to £30k. Better not deal cars!!!! I know 911V were only taking a few grand out of that car as it was on SOR.
It seems with some dealers newer into the market they’re looking to bag £20k on a car but when you take VAT on profit and any warranty claims on an old car that profit can disappear pretty quickly. You’re essentially paying a finders fee for buying a sound car with no stories.
Cheib said:
Mate of mine tried selling his car recently went to Top 555, Bramley, Romans etc they were all pretty open/blunt/honest that they wanted a 20% margin on the car. Which in this case was close to £30k.
Which is why SOR has become/is often the best way forward for a lot of owners if they don't want the ball ache of selling privately. And though JZM and their ilk get a lot of stick on here, SOR in the current market is often the best way to give a prospective buyer the confidence they need to buy a modern (or not so modern) Porsche RS/GT car, with the added bonus that the likes of JZM and 911V can arrange finance too. However the choice of dealer is key with SOR.As for the OPC spiel about "needing" £20k across a car to make £5k, I call BS, they're either buying the wrong cars (which need huge amounts of prep) or they're just plain greedy, nothing more, nothing less.
Slippydiff said:
Cheib said:
Mate of mine tried selling his car recently went to Top 555, Bramley, Romans etc they were all pretty open/blunt/honest that they wanted a 20% margin on the car. Which in this case was close to £30k.
Which is why SOR has become/is often the best way forward for a lot of owners if they don't want the ball ache of selling privately. And though JZM and their ilk get a lot of stick on here, SOR in the current market is often the best way to give a prospective buyer the confidence they need to buy a modern (or not so modern) Porsche RS/GT car, with the added bonus that the likes of JZM and 911V can arrange finance too. However the choice of dealer is key with SOR.As for the OPC spiel about "needing" £20k across a car to make £5k, I call BS, they're either buying the wrong cars (which need huge amounts of prep) or they're just plain greedy, nothing more, nothing less.
SOR are propping up the asking prices at the moment IMO, if your serious in selling just put it up privately for a sensible price with a warranty.
I’d imagine there’s some hefty creative license with that £20k spread to £5k profit
Sure, the car sits on a lot for 90 days before selling taking £15k of operating costs but that includes every wage, rent rates, prep, warranty, financing and advertising for the whole business in that 90 days.
Or, it’s just pure horse s
t. 
Sure, the car sits on a lot for 90 days before selling taking £15k of operating costs but that includes every wage, rent rates, prep, warranty, financing and advertising for the whole business in that 90 days.
Or, it’s just pure horse s
t. Cheib said:
IMI A said:
touché
Better not deal cars!!!! I know 911V were only taking a few grand out of that car as it was on SOR.
It seems with some dealers newer into the market they’re looking to bag £20k on a car but when you take VAT on profit and any warranty claims on an old car that profit can disappear pretty quickly. You’re essentially paying a finders fee for buying a sound car with no stories.
Mate of mine tried selling his car recently went to Top 555, Bramley, Romans etc they were all pretty open/blunt/honest that they wanted a 20% margin on the car. Which in this case was close to £30k. Better not deal cars!!!! I know 911V were only taking a few grand out of that car as it was on SOR.
It seems with some dealers newer into the market they’re looking to bag £20k on a car but when you take VAT on profit and any warranty claims on an old car that profit can disappear pretty quickly. You’re essentially paying a finders fee for buying a sound car with no stories.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I’d imagine there’s some hefty creative license with that £20k spread to £5k profit
Sure, the car sits on a lot for 90 days before selling taking £15k of operating costs but that includes every wage, rent rates, prep, warranty, financing and advertising for the whole business in that 90 days.
Or, it’s just pure horse st.
£15k goes nowhere when running an established business over 90 days. An OPC operation will eat that up in days. Sure, the car sits on a lot for 90 days before selling taking £15k of operating costs but that includes every wage, rent rates, prep, warranty, financing and advertising for the whole business in that 90 days.
Or, it’s just pure horse s
t. GT4RS said:
Cheib said:
IMI A said:
touché
Better not deal cars!!!! I know 911V were only taking a few grand out of that car as it was on SOR.
It seems with some dealers newer into the market they’re looking to bag £20k on a car but when you take VAT on profit and any warranty claims on an old car that profit can disappear pretty quickly. You’re essentially paying a finders fee for buying a sound car with no stories.
Mate of mine tried selling his car recently went to Top 555, Bramley, Romans etc they were all pretty open/blunt/honest that they wanted a 20% margin on the car. Which in this case was close to £30k. Better not deal cars!!!! I know 911V were only taking a few grand out of that car as it was on SOR.
It seems with some dealers newer into the market they’re looking to bag £20k on a car but when you take VAT on profit and any warranty claims on an old car that profit can disappear pretty quickly. You’re essentially paying a finders fee for buying a sound car with no stories.
Market is pretty small when you think about it. Across all the OPC’s there are probably what maybe ten buyers ? Stratstone, Sytner, Porsche GB, JCT 600, Jardine, Lind ? Those dealer groups generally have one buyer don’t they ? Add in a handful specialist dealers that you would really want to use depending on the car.
Not that much competition is there...
GT4RS said:
Slippydiff said:
Cheib said:
Mate of mine tried selling his car recently went to Top 555, Bramley, Romans etc they were all pretty open/blunt/honest that they wanted a 20% margin on the car. Which in this case was close to £30k.
Which is why SOR has become/is often the best way forward for a lot of owners if they don't want the ball ache of selling privately. And though JZM and their ilk get a lot of stick on here, SOR in the current market is often the best way to give a prospective buyer the confidence they need to buy a modern (or not so modern) Porsche RS/GT car, with the added bonus that the likes of JZM and 911V can arrange finance too. However the choice of dealer is key with SOR.As for the OPC spiel about "needing" £20k across a car to make £5k, I call BS, they're either buying the wrong cars (which need huge amounts of prep) or they're just plain greedy, nothing more, nothing less.
SOR are propping up the asking prices at the moment IMO, if your serious in selling just put it up privately for a sensible price with a warranty.
As for selling privately at the “right/sensible” price with a warranty, I tried selling my immaculate, original panel 996 GT2 privately with a Porsche warranty some 12 years ago. It was advertised on PH at the “going rate” for 3 months, without a single enquiry.
I then put it on SOR with a well regarded independent Porsche dealer oop North for six months (at the same price as I’d advertised it for) Once again, no serious enquiries.
I got the car back and sold it to 911V (Tom said it was THE cleanest 996 interior he’d ever seen) and it took him a good few weeks to sell it. But sell it he finally did.
GT cars are a hard sell privately. Period.
I’m not convinced SOR are propping the current prices up. If my experiences with 911V are anything to by, their prices tend to dovetail with the other cars in the market, and they seem to sell promptly.
If we’re taking about rarities such as the 991 GT2 RS/GT3 RS, then possibly JZM’s asking prices may be propping that sector of the market up, but not the 997/996 GT3 market prices.
All IMO.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Sensible model if you were in trade would be prep as required and to try and buy the cars outright with bit of SOR if you cannot find overlap to buy the car. Things like rare RS or rare classics you can take £30k-£50k out of a car on something like a 964 3.6 turbo if bought right.I personally do not like the SOR business model (well I do as a private seller) but as a business model if I knew my onions I'd prefer taking the risk on the supercar or classic whatever it is.
Truth is these type of cars are not driven much so little risk of engine or gearbox going from dealer's perspective. Interestingly the dealer I was speaking to felt 45,000 miles on a 2007 997.1 GT3 is high mileage for this type of car. Not sure he'd like the fact managed to do not far off double that mileage in my old 997 turbo over the years
Some very scary stories going around on SOR on the internet in Porsche community. Think Sean Lockyear and there's another dealer taken inspiration from Gmund, Austria where quite a few vendors have not been paid.
I've done 4-5 cars buy/sell through 911v over last 3-4 years and do not even need to look at the prep invoices they're so meticulous which is lovely.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I had a look at the 997.1 GT3 at Rybrook (McLaren Bham) and apart from a couple of hours maybe spent cleaning it I don’t see any prep done, that was SOR. I was really interested in the Meteor Grey one at Chester within the same group, the trade in offer on mine was also much better, but someone put a deposit down before I made my mind up / settled on the right deal for me.
So I agree not much spent on pre-sales prep on SOR in my limited experience and then they might be the poor cousin to doing the deal compared to the ones they own and want to shift the most.
Just my opinion.
Ed
Slippydiff said:
As for the OPC spiel about "needing" £20k across a car to make £5k, I call BS, they're either buying the wrong cars (which need huge amounts of prep) or they're just plain greedy, nothing more, nothing less.
Wasn't an OPC but yes, that was my conclusion. Not least because the car had just been through their workshop and needed nothing doing to it according to their own techs.Keenly priced sofa and check out the overmats...
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Frrair said:
I had a look at the 997.1 GT3 at Rybrook (McLaren Bham) and apart from a couple of hours maybe spent cleaning it I don’t see any prep done, that was SOR.
I was really interested in the Meteor Grey one at Chester within the same group, the trade in offer on mine was also much better, but someone put a deposit down before I made my mind up / settled on the right deal for me.
So I agree not much spent on pre-sales prep on SOR in my limited experience and then they might be the poor cousin to doing the deal compared to the ones they own and want to shift the most.
Just my opinion.
Ed
Chester car is back up.I was really interested in the Meteor Grey one at Chester within the same group, the trade in offer on mine was also much better, but someone put a deposit down before I made my mind up / settled on the right deal for me.
So I agree not much spent on pre-sales prep on SOR in my limited experience and then they might be the poor cousin to doing the deal compared to the ones they own and want to shift the most.
Just my opinion.
Ed
https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en_GB/911-GT3-52012
Anyone know how much this was up for?
Seems to have had a deposit taken quite quickly:
http://www.911virgin.com/porscheforsale/1364/997GT...
Seems to have had a deposit taken quite quickly:
http://www.911virgin.com/porscheforsale/1364/997GT...
Slippydiff said:
I agree, there’s zero risk for a garage selling a car on SOR (as long as they’ve done their due diligence) but all the risk is with owner ? Not sure why you think all the risk lays with owner ? As I said in my post, choosing the correct dealer to sell your car is key.
As for selling privately at the “right/sensible” price with a warranty, I tried selling my immaculate, original panel 996 GT2 privately with a Porsche warranty some 12 years ago. It was advertised on PH at the “going rate” for 3 months, without a single enquiry.
I then put it on SOR with a well regarded independent Porsche dealer oop North for six months (at the same price as I’d advertised it for) Once again, no serious enquiries.
I got the car back and sold it to 911V (Tom said it was THE cleanest 996 interior he’d ever seen) and it took him a good few weeks to sell it. But sell it he finally did.
GT cars are a hard sell privately. Period.
I’m not convinced SOR are propping the current prices up. If my experiences with 911V are anything to by, their prices tend to dovetail with the other cars in the market, and they seem to sell promptly.
If we’re taking about rarities such as the 991 GT2 RS/GT3 RS, then possibly JZM’s asking prices may be propping that sector of the market up, but not the 997/996 GT3 market prices.
All IMO.
I think on SOR all the risk is with the owner simply because the car can be taken out for test drives with prospective customers and any resulting damage is insured by seller. ie your original panel car can be re-sprayed if there was an accident. I don't think the value of the car would be the same afterwards.As for selling privately at the “right/sensible” price with a warranty, I tried selling my immaculate, original panel 996 GT2 privately with a Porsche warranty some 12 years ago. It was advertised on PH at the “going rate” for 3 months, without a single enquiry.
I then put it on SOR with a well regarded independent Porsche dealer oop North for six months (at the same price as I’d advertised it for) Once again, no serious enquiries.
I got the car back and sold it to 911V (Tom said it was THE cleanest 996 interior he’d ever seen) and it took him a good few weeks to sell it. But sell it he finally did.
GT cars are a hard sell privately. Period.
I’m not convinced SOR are propping the current prices up. If my experiences with 911V are anything to by, their prices tend to dovetail with the other cars in the market, and they seem to sell promptly.
If we’re taking about rarities such as the 991 GT2 RS/GT3 RS, then possibly JZM’s asking prices may be propping that sector of the market up, but not the 997/996 GT3 market prices.
All IMO.
The seller does need to provide the space to house the car so in effect they are motivated to move it on but make no mistake, they can afford to be more unrealistic about pricing because they have zero capital outlay other than shop space. in other words, if you count time as money, both parties could be sending here but as the seller only needs to sell one out of maybe 5 cars they take in, guess who is the sucker?
so if you want to shift, price it realistically with remaining OPC warranty and it'll move.
nw942 said:
Frrair said:
I had a look at the 997.1 GT3 at Rybrook (McLaren Bham) and apart from a couple of hours maybe spent cleaning it I don’t see any prep done, that was SOR.
I was really interested in the Meteor Grey one at Chester within the same group, the trade in offer on mine was also much better, but someone put a deposit down before I made my mind up / settled on the right deal for me.
So I agree not much spent on pre-sales prep on SOR in my limited experience and then they might be the poor cousin to doing the deal compared to the ones they own and want to shift the most.
Just my opinion.
Ed
Chester car is back up.I was really interested in the Meteor Grey one at Chester within the same group, the trade in offer on mine was also much better, but someone put a deposit down before I made my mind up / settled on the right deal for me.
So I agree not much spent on pre-sales prep on SOR in my limited experience and then they might be the poor cousin to doing the deal compared to the ones they own and want to shift the most.
Just my opinion.
Ed
https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en_GB/911-GT3-52012
Couple of bits to sort post inspection today very hopeful I may get it for the weekend.
Cheers
Ed
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