Discussion
Boo152 said:
Have these facts and figures on file - I think they came from PCGB owners club when I was a member.
PORSCHE FACTS AND FIGURES:
964 - Total sold in UK 3,692
Introduced In 1989, the first major update resulted in the 964 model in the four-wheel drive Carrera 4, (built on the experience of the Porsche 959). A year later followed the two-wheel drive Carrera 2.
Production from 1989 up until 1993 and the introduction of the 993.
993 - Total sold in UK: 4,479
October 1993: New 993 rear wheel drive 911 Carrera introduced in Coupe form only; 3.6-litre engine with 272bhp.
HTH
So this list is 1,000 out?PORSCHE FACTS AND FIGURES:
964 - Total sold in UK 3,692
Introduced In 1989, the first major update resulted in the 964 model in the four-wheel drive Carrera 4, (built on the experience of the Porsche 959). A year later followed the two-wheel drive Carrera 2.
Production from 1989 up until 1993 and the introduction of the 993.
993 - Total sold in UK: 4,479
October 1993: New 993 rear wheel drive 911 Carrera introduced in Coupe form only; 3.6-litre engine with 272bhp.
HTH
The howmanyleft.com figures are very confusing.
If adding them up is wrong it means that from 1994 to 1995 200 993's were written off or exported and they only sold 100 cars from 1995 -96 and 97
911
1997 2.9k
1996 2.8k
1995 2.7k
1994 2.9k
993 carrera
1996 896 total 896
1995 667
1994 429
993 convertible
1997 282 total 282
1996 271
1995 287
1994 276
911 CARRERA 2 COUP
1997 603 total 603
1996 585
1995 601
1994 587
911 CARRERA 4
1997 1.0k total 1035
1996 892
1995 716
1994 543
993 Targas
1998 363 total 363
1997 338
1996 183
http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/porsche_911
http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/porsche_911_c...
http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/porsche_911_c...
http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/porsche_911_c...
http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/porsche_911_c...
http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/porsche_911_c...
http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/porsche_911_c...
http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/porsche_911_c...
http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/porsche_911_c...
http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/porsche_911_c...
http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/porsche_911_c...
The list is endless the true numbers are there somewhere as they are calculated from the VED list.
Still bloody confusing site Porsche haven't helped with the naming.
Total Global sales of 993's 68,029
UK 4,479
Porsche did have months of selling few cars in the UK. I well remember having a chat with Ian at Cameron Cars near Bath a few years back, telling me that when working for OPC Bristol in the mid nineties, that they only could sell three or four 993s at certain times, due to either no one wanting to buy, or they couldn't get the stock because Porsche were not building enough RHDs. I think it was a real roller coaster of a time working at Porsche at that time.
What's interesting is that neither your or my figures show 1993 registered cars. I was told whilst at Autofarm a few months back that there were no 1993 RHD 993s..... So I went and dug out the service book out and showed them.
In fact, there is another guy on here who has posted above (Boo152), who has one also.
What's interesting is that neither your or my figures show 1993 registered cars. I was told whilst at Autofarm a few months back that there were no 1993 RHD 993s..... So I went and dug out the service book out and showed them.
In fact, there is another guy on here who has posted above (Boo152), who has one also.
Edited by Wozy68 on Thursday 30th January 09:29
Gordo997 said:
carcrazypop said:
mollytherocker said:
PHC said:
With 997 Gen2 prices falling some competition there.
I totally agree with this. The Gen 2 is going to be a very sought after car in my view and I see some 993 owners (Not all) moving to them if they cant get a GT3.To clarify, I've just reached my 65th birthday, and I wanted to buy a 911 as a 'keeper' this time, and use it mainly for sunny day trips etc.
The 997.2 would be my 911 choice as a daily driver and definitely not the 993. The 997 is very, very fast, probably too fast for todays roads, but very capable. Having said that, I found the 997 slightly fragile feeling, almost like you were waiting for something to stop working, like the horn sticking on and strange noises from the PSE when not been run for a few days.(horn sticking on is very embarrassing).
All Porsches are expensive to maintain when they start to get on a bit, and because of the complexity of the newer 997 cars, I think they're going to be a lot more expensive to run than a 993 when they start pushing 10 yrs and over.
I've had many 911's over the years, and IMHO the 993 represents the best 911 in terms of character, but with some modern aids to improve the driving experience.
As I say, each to their own, they're all brilliant cars.
997.2 is on my list probably with pdk twin wet clutch which are good for and amazing 150,000+ miles, manuals would need a few clutches over the mileage.
I think the fit and finish of the gen 2 997 is very high quality.
Only reason to get a 993 is residuals and wanting the classic air cooled engine noise otherwise a
997.2 with a PSE sports exhaust is very enjoyable and more usable.
The private 993 sellers I seen most are moving to modern cars which have a/c etc that actually works and they don't want to spend a load on rust oil leak suspension repairs which won't add a penny to their 993s value. Last year I saw several cars which had only ever seen an oil service to get the book stamped but were in need of lots of other work. The usual common problems like heavy clutches oil leaks rotten exhaust rotten bumper supports binding brakes "one car had almost no brakes yet had a fresh mot!" saggy suspension heavily worn steering wheel and seats hazing cracked paint on bumpers wet floors from blocked sunroofs a/c sensors pumps condensers and evaporators blocked or leaky the list of work needed was often very long which is why they were for sale yet people sill pay good money and happy to spend another shed load crazy. In Germany the cars are in far better condition with their vehicle test being tougher etc pity they are lhd too many roapy high priced poorly maintained 993 here in the uk.
PHC said:
The private 993 sellers I seen most are moving to modern cars which have a/c etc that actually works and they don't want to spend a load on rust oil leak suspension repairs which won't add a penny to their 993s value. Last year I saw several cars which had only ever seen an oil service to get the book stamped but were in need of lots of other work. The usual common problems like heavy clutches oil leaks rotten exhaust rotten bumper supports binding brakes "one car had almost no brakes yet had a fresh mot!" saggy suspension heavily worn steering wheel and seats hazing cracked paint on bumpers wet floors from blocked sunroofs a/c sensors pumps condensers and evaporators blocked or leaky the list of work needed was often very long which is why they were for sale yet people sill pay good money and happy to spend another shed load crazy. In Germany the cars are in far better condition with their vehicle test being tougher etc pity they are lhd too many roapy high priced poorly maintained 993 here in the uk.
I feel for you and your introduction to 993s. I'm a little suprised there are so many out there that are so poor.It might be an old Porsche is not for you! they all need some kind of work, the ones that don't, well they obviously do not get driven.Mine is 20 years old now, it has fitted aircon that has suddenly sprung a leak, however until then, she took me all over Spain last year in temps of between 10 and 38 degrees and the aircon could deal with it, so no probs there. My wife and I travelled 2K miles on that trip and the 911 didn't miss a beat.
The previous year I drove via Reim to Stuttgart in her over four days and 1800 miles. I drove back from Stuttgart via the Ring, to Worcestershire in a day. A trip of around 800 miles, and at times my then 18 year old 112K mile 911 was touching 160MPH on the autobahn, with more to go.
She has now done 122K miles, she is on her original (just about worn out) dampers, springs, flywheel and clutch. I'll say it again ...... 122K miles and still on her original clutch. Just how many other sports cars could do that? In the last 11K miles, she has needed topping up with around 2 litres of oil.
I look at other cars, dream a bit about changing to something more comfortable, quicker, more modern. But then I have a quick peek in the shed, curse at the bad weather when I have a day off and want to drive her, get a leg shake on when it comes to paying for the servicing bills. But could I sell her? Nope, because every single trip out in her is an occasion, just to the shops or a blast down to the south coast, it doesn't matter.
Some (a few) don't get on with the 993. I think that's a shame, I sometimes feel that's because they haven't either given it enough time because it is so much different to earlier aircooled, or the cars in need of new suspension etc.
Personally, its the best Porsche I've ever owned, and to show my appreciation this year she is having the following: New dampers (FSDs), new springs, new top mounts, RS quickshift, RS flywheel & Clutch. Blimey its going to cost, but hopefully it will all last at least another 100K miles.
Edited by Wozy68 on Thursday 30th January 10:22
PHC said:
In Germany the cars are in far better condition with their vehicle test being tougher etc pity they are lhd too many roapy high priced poorly maintained 993 here in the uk.
In Germany good, original-spec cars go for big money - 40k euros. Also, generally in better colours - grey with all-black interiors, for example. I think you make some good points re maintenance items but now the values are strengthening I think owners will have the cars done properly as a wise buyer will insist on it and pay top money. If I were selling, I would spend £3-4k at a recognised independent to tick some of these boxes and then want very strong money (indeed) for my car. As it is, it drives beautifully.anonymous said:
[redacted]
993's are great if you find get good one a nightmare if you get roapy one problem 80% of them are roapy.With clutches age becomes a problem they get stiff thrust bearings dry out dmf the springs get weak which make them a pain to drive
The turbo cars have the same issues but have servo assisted clutch which makes them a lot lighter to drive but masks some problems.
A car on 122k with original clutch mus have done majority of motorway miles as he says lots of trip in europe probably very little town work.
It's the exception rather than the norm.
Dampers are know to last 30k 122 on original dampers you're going to notice big time when they're replaced.
I'll find the right car I'm sure it's out there but my £25k budget might need stretching then a 997.2 starts looking like much better value unless residuals are a worry but given the 991.1 is no where near as good to drive I think 997.2 will probably remain stable once they get into the mid to high 20's so in a couple of years they'll be the one to buy I'm looking a t a 993 in the mean time.
997.2 is probably the future classic in my experience offers as much tingle only in a modern way as a 993 without some of the terminal worries like rust.
stevewak said:
In Germany good, original-spec cars go for big money - 40k euros. Also, generally in better colours - grey with all-black interiors, for example. I think you make some good points re maintenance items but now the values are strengthening I think owners will have the cars done properly as a wise buyer will insist on it and pay top money. If I were selling, I would spend £3-4k at a recognised independent to tick some of these boxes and then want very strong money (indeed) for my car. As it is, it drives beautifully.
I haven`t seen any cars in getmany so can`t comment but the increase in maintenance as residuals increase sounds valid. The same thing happened to the 964. A couple of years ago there were lots of cars around £10k-£14k. Most of those are now £20k -£25k and the owners have done engine rebuilds and resprays etc etc. Boo152 said:
Wozy68 said:
Porsche did have months of selling few cars in the UK. I well remember having a chat with Ian at Cameron Cars near Bath a few years back, telling me that when working for OPC Bristol in the mid nineties, that they only could sell three or four 993s at certain times, due to either no one wanting to buy, or they couldn't get the stock because Porsche were not building enough RHDs. I think it was a real roller coaster of a time working at Porsche at that time.
What's interesting is that neither your or my figures show 1993 registered cars. I was told whilst at Autofarm a few months back that there were no 1993 RHD 993s..... So I went and dug out the service book out and showed them.
In fact, there is another guy on here who has posted above (Boo152), who has one also.
You have to remember Warren that the Porsche factory has for a long time, (after the end of each summer factory break) designated those cars produced after the break as the next model year. What's interesting is that neither your or my figures show 1993 registered cars. I was told whilst at Autofarm a few months back that there were no 1993 RHD 993s..... So I went and dug out the service book out and showed them.
In fact, there is another guy on here who has posted above (Boo152), who has one also.
Edited by Wozy68 on Thursday 30th January 09:29
Not sure if it is from the beginning or end of of each August, but lets say that it's from September 1st each year, our December 1993 reg cars would definitley have been called "94 Models".
HTH
Edited by Wozy68 on Thursday 30th January 15:55
I saw a 99k miles 993 on original suspension clutch bumper supports and needed paint on bumpers couple of oil leaks brakes due an overhaul asking £28k, some chap bought it without inspection or even taking it for a test drive! some crazy people out there by the time he's finished with a specialist he'll have paid out £32-£34k for 100,000 mile car.
With buyers around like that if you're selling a 993 do what the avg dealer does don't spend a penny more than you need to get a fresh mot because you'll just be wasting your money.
With buyers around like that if you're selling a 993 do what the avg dealer does don't spend a penny more than you need to get a fresh mot because you'll just be wasting your money.
Never mind the car, even the hardback option seats are worth as much as a rough 996!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-993-911-Hardback...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-993-911-Hardback...
Boo152 said:
I think you are being sensible, especially for a LTK.
My clutch wasnt showing any signs of wear a couple or 3 years ago, but we changed it anyway @105,000 miles during a diff rebuild to cure a whine on the over-run: My specialist suggested that (for the price of the part, and a very small amount of labour), it was wise to change the clutch as well while they had everything else in bits .
I think every time I've heard about a 993 owner changing the clutch, it's always been along these lines.My clutch wasnt showing any signs of wear a couple or 3 years ago, but we changed it anyway @105,000 miles during a diff rebuild to cure a whine on the over-run: My specialist suggested that (for the price of the part, and a very small amount of labour), it was wise to change the clutch as well while they had everything else in bits .
So 122k is not an unusual lifespan, it's just unusual that it hasn't been changed 'whilst we're in there'
Wozy68 said:
mollytherocker said:
PHC said:
With 997 Gen2 prices falling some competition there.
I totally agree with this. The Gen 2 is going to be a very sought after car in my view and I see some 993 owners (Not all) moving to them if they cant get a GT3.More like a 993 to look at and prettier than the 996, yet not as big as the 991 (or so it seems), hopefully without the chocolate engine of the Gen1 and probs a lot less hassle to run/keep up together than the 993.
Though I'd miss that cold morning, on full choke, aircooled rumble me thinks.
Edited by Wozy68 on Wednesday 29th January 11:23
jackal said:
I dont understand this thread ?
993 values already went up, ages ago
In 2009 i bought my C2 manual varioram with a low 59k miles for £22,000
Find me the same car today for under £30k .... Impossible i would have thought.
I can't remember - was yours private or trade?993 values already went up, ages ago
In 2009 i bought my C2 manual varioram with a low 59k miles for £22,000
Find me the same car today for under £30k .... Impossible i would have thought.
You are being far too 'linear'.... we had the financial crash in mid-2008. So in 2009 values (of everything) took a dip.
I bought my C2 manual varioram with 39k miles in early-2008 from a dealer for £29,995.
Edited by Orangecurry on Friday 31st January 10:02
Orangecurry said:
I can't remember - was yours private or trade?
You are being far too 'linear'.... we had the financial crash in mid-2008. So in 2009 values (of everything) took a dip.
I bought my C2 manual varioram with 39k miles in early-2008 from a dealer for £29,995.
Yes, I think they have been flat lined for about the last 4 years or so but we are, in the last few months, starting to see some real rises.You are being far too 'linear'.... we had the financial crash in mid-2008. So in 2009 values (of everything) took a dip.
I bought my C2 manual varioram with 39k miles in early-2008 from a dealer for £29,995.
Edited by Orangecurry on Friday 31st January 10:02
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